Re: Vampire Cheerleaders Talk
Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:35 am
I said it months ago guys, VC/PMS swimsuit calendar for the win.
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I agree that Heather needs a "The Reason You Suck" speech, especially for treating Leonard literally like a dog when she goes out on the town in Vegas in the second, arc, but later she seems to be in denial of him being a thrall, actually asking him to do things instead of ordering him and treating him more like a human being than the others (although she doesn't defend him when Suki steals his comic and Zoe and Lesley try to force him to strip). It's an open question whether she was lying about given a choice to become a vampire and how much she had to do with turning Leonard into a thrall. She can be defended for her apology though. She and Leonard obviously had repaired their friendship at the beginning of the final arc, but if she hadn't apologized before he had disappeared she wouldn't have had a chance to do so in the intervening ten years. Even if she had, that was probably the one thing she wanted him to know. The only thing she could do in what was her present after that time was to have Charlotte deliver the message. Waiting to see him personally was a distant prospect was a distant prospect, and she couldn't be sure even a vampire would survive that long. We don't even know if she did.MrJustice4 wrote:Even though the story is over and Heather FINALLY apologized for what she did to Leonard(10 years after he left), I still find it hard to like Heather. Especially when she knew of his feelings for her and took advantage of them! Leonard warned Heather about the cheerleaders, she didn't listen and got attacked by them! The next day, she TOTALLY blows him off! Then, when Leonard tries to save her again, Heather back stabs her OWN friend by helping to make him into a thrall! She did feel bad about it at first, but then she got used to having him be a slave and treated him like dirt! Then, after Leonard was free from their spell by the P.M.S., he tried to save her, YET AGAIN, at prom! He thought Heather became a vampire and only did what she did because of Lorna/Lori! She then admits to Leonard that she had a choice all along! She then chooses to go back and get captured along with the others ONLY to find out later that it was a setup by Cressida Harrow to get all of them! Leonard, being the coolest guy ever AND also being a TRUE FRIEND that he is, he found OUT where they were held and LEAD the P.M.S. to save them! Only after 10 years since he left does she FINALLY apologize for the way she and the other girls have treated him! I honestly can for give Heather for ALL of the stuff she did. ALL OF IT! If she didn't say, and I quote, "I HAD A CHOICE!" That's the worst part because, not only did Heather choose to be a vampire, but she also chose to do the stuff that she did to her parents, to her schoolmates and EVEN to her BEST FRIEND FROM CHILDHOOD! After ALL that, she then decides to have Charlotte pass on the message to Leonard that Heather apologizes for what she did to him instead of waiting to get to the timeline that he's at to tell him in person! Heather wasn't sorry when she admitted having a choice, but she was sorry 10 years after Leonard left!Adam Arnold wrote:Consider the movie Pretty In Pink. Molly Ringwald's character (Andie) has geeky Duckie pining over her, but Andie has a crush on and ends up with hunky Blane. So Leonard is like Duckie... there's chemistry due to them being long-time friends, but Leonard's been friend zoned for life.Sokora wrote:Somehow I always got the feeling that Leonard and Heather would be an item.
Yes, at first she hated how they were treating Leonard as a thrall at the beginning of Vol 2, but then she TOTALLY blew that aside when Lori/Lorna said that it was fun to treat him that way. It was like on the pilot episode of Family Guy when Peter said that he felt bad about drinking at the party after he promised Lois that he wouldn't, but then Quagmire said "Oh, don't feel bad about it" and Peter said "Hey, I never thought about it that way." In that scenario, Lori/Lorna was Quagmire and Heather was Peter. Sure, Heather was more kind about having Leonard do stuff for her, but that's because he was ALREADY doing stuff for her long before she even became a vampire because of his feelings for her that she knew of and took advantage of him like how Rarity does with Spike on MLP. Also, Google Vampire Cheerleaders TV Troops because they explained that Adam Arnold left out Heather having a choice so the readers could come up with their own theory and so, when revealed, we would see the vampires in a different light, but fans didn't like that at all! What I hated about that was that Leonard warned Heather, she didn't listen, she gets attacked and turn and then, the next day, she TOTALLY blows Leonard off! Heather didn't even apologize to Leonard, didn't tell him the truth that he already knew and didn't even thank him for being the only person to try and have her back. In fact, when she was turned, not only was she happy about it, but she IMEDIATELY wanted to start KILLING people! Talk about your "WTF" moment. I can also get you're reasoning about her apology, but, after having Charlotte pass on the message, she could still wait for the time he's at now, find him and tell him in person. When you're making things right with your friend, you make them right in person. That's just what I think is right. BTW, "a 'The Reason You Suck' speech?" I like that, it's funny!tau neutrino wrote:Moved from the Q&A thread.I agree that Heather needs a "The Reason You Suck" speech, especially for treating Leonard literally like a dog when she goes out on the town in Vegas in the second, arc, but later she seems to be in denial of him being a thrall, actually asking him to do things instead of ordering him and treating him more like a human being than the others (although she doesn't defend him when Suki steals his comic and Zoe and Lesley try to force him to strip). It's an open question whether she was lying about given a choice to become a vampire and how much she had to do with turning Leonard into a thrall. She can be defended for her apology though. She and Leonard obviously had repaired their friendship at the beginning of the final arc, but if she hadn't apologized before he had disappeared she wouldn't have had a chance to do so in the intervening ten years. Even if she had, that was probably the one thing she wanted him to know. The only thing she could do in what was her present after that time was to have Charlotte deliver the message. Waiting to see him personally was a distant prospect was a distant prospect, and she couldn't be sure even a vampire would survive that long. We don't even know if she did.MrJustice4 wrote:Even though the story is over and Heather FINALLY apologized for what she did to Leonard(10 years after he left), I still find it hard to like Heather. Especially when she knew of his feelings for her and took advantage of them! Leonard warned Heather about the cheerleaders, she didn't listen and got attacked by them! The next day, she TOTALLY blows him off! Then, when Leonard tries to save her again, Heather back stabs her OWN friend by helping to make him into a thrall! She did feel bad about it at first, but then she got used to having him be a slave and treated him like dirt! Then, after Leonard was free from their spell by the P.M.S., he tried to save her, YET AGAIN, at prom! He thought Heather became a vampire and only did what she did because of Lorna/Lori! She then admits to Leonard that she had a choice all along! She then chooses to go back and get captured along with the others ONLY to find out later that it was a setup by Cressida Harrow to get all of them! Leonard, being the coolest guy ever AND also being a TRUE FRIEND that he is, he found OUT where they were held and LEAD the P.M.S. to save them! Only after 10 years since he left does she FINALLY apologize for the way she and the other girls have treated him! I honestly can for give Heather for ALL of the stuff she did. ALL OF IT! If she didn't say, and I quote, "I HAD A CHOICE!" That's the worst part because, not only did Heather choose to be a vampire, but she also chose to do the stuff that she did to her parents, to her schoolmates and EVEN to her BEST FRIEND FROM CHILDHOOD! After ALL that, she then decides to have Charlotte pass on the message to Leonard that Heather apologizes for what she did to him instead of waiting to get to the timeline that he's at to tell him in person! Heather wasn't sorry when she admitted having a choice, but she was sorry 10 years after Leonard left!
Leonard and co. were all off-world by the end of the comic, and Heather hasn't the first clue where, or how far into the future he is. So how is she supposed to find him?MrJustice4 wrote:I can also get you're reasoning about her apology, but, after having Charlotte pass on the message, she could still wait for the time he's at now, find him and tell him in person.
We got to see EVERYONE here. Vampire Cheerleaders, Paranormal Mystery Squad, EVEN B Squad was there in the future. So, if everyone was there, why wasn't Heather? They all keep tabs on each other and know where the Thurston "Family" is. She should've been there to, right? So, where was Heather?Gotoh wrote:Leonard and co. were all off-world by the end of the comic, and Heather hasn't the first clue where, or how far into the future he is. So how is she supposed to find him?MrJustice4 wrote:I can also get you're reasoning about her apology, but, after having Charlotte pass on the message, she could still wait for the time he's at now, find him and tell him in person.
That's everyone who took part in the "Space and Time??" adventure. Heather wasn't a part of that group 'cuz, the last we saw of her, she was still back on Earth, as an office manager at PETM (notice J.C. is absent from the reunion scene too - that's his son, Peter).MrJustice4 wrote:We got to see EVERYONE here. Vampire Cheerleaders, Paranormal Mystery Squad, EVEN B Squad was there in the future. So, if everyone was there, why wasn't Heather? They all keep tabs on each other and know where the Thurston "Family" is. She should've been there to, right? So, where was Heather?
I agree to, but still.Hyper Magi wrote:I think the answer to that might be "#@&% Heather".
Chronologically, Heather's latest appearance is here, centuries before the reunion at Litaworld. Lesley and Zoe can't even agree whether to call their maker "Lori" or "Lorna", so they probably don't keep tabs on each other, and 3.5 years should go by in a flash for them. Heather also could have met them off panel, like Char delivering the message to Leonard. Another possibility is that Heather met final death in the intervening centuries (also possible for J.C.) or even turned back into a human and died of old age. The real world explanation is probably that the comic was coming to an end and they didn't have the time or space to do a reunion, not to mention the antipathy towards her as demonstrated by HyperMagi. Even Michael Shelfer didn't want to draw her. It would be interesting to see her as a representative of PETM demanding humane treatment for the reptillians. Something to remember, Heather's the only one to offer any apology to Leonard after all the abuse he's suffered at most people's hands.Gotoh wrote:That's everyone who took part in the "Space and Time??" adventure. Heather wasn't a part of that group 'cuz, the last we saw of her, she was still back on Earth, as an office manager at PETM (notice J.C. is absent from the reunion scene too - that's his son, Peter).MrJustice4 wrote:We got to see EVERYONE here. Vampire Cheerleaders, Paranormal Mystery Squad, EVEN B Squad was there in the future. So, if everyone was there, why wasn't Heather? They all keep tabs on each other and know where the Thurston "Family" is. She should've been there to, right? So, where was Heather?
You're also assuming she kept in touch with the other vampires, when that may not be the case. For example: when was the last time Layla ever saw, or spoke with Steph? And that was before her abduction.
All Heather knows is. Leonard and co. are all off... somewhere, because they all just disappeared. Just like Steph. Even Char had no idea where they'd gone, and she wouldn't have known how to find them either, if she hadn't had help from the mothmen.
Your link doesn't work, but I know the one you're referring to. And, from what we saw, Lori and the others were still on Earth at that time. So Heather could've easily lost touch with them over the next few hundred years.tau neutrino wrote:Chronologically, Heather's latest appearance is here, centuries before the reunion at Litaworld. Lesley and Zoe can't even agree whether to call their maker "Lori" or "Lorna.
We definitely know that she didn't change back into a human.tau neutrino wrote:Heather also could have met them off panel, like Char delivering the message to Leonard. Another possibility is that Heather met final death in the intervening centuries (also possible for J.C.) or even turned back into a human and died of old age.
Which is why he said they basically wrote her out of the comic, but we were talking about the in-universe reason for why Heather wasn't in the final reunion scene.tau neutrino wrote:not to mention the antipathy towards her as demonstrated by HyperMagi. Even Michael Shelfer didn't want to draw her.
Formally, yes. But Leonard said had no hard feelings towards any of them and said he kind of enjoyed it, since he got to shag 'em every now and then.tau neutrino wrote:Heather's the only one to offer any apology to Leonard after all the abuse he's suffered at most people's hands.
She looked more embarrassed than anything.MrJustice4 wrote:Yes, at first she hated how they were treating Leonard as a thrall at the beginning of Vol 2, but then she TOTALLY blew that aside when Lori/Lorna said that it was fun to treat him that way.tau neutrino wrote: I agree that Heather needs a "The Reason You Suck" speech, especially for treating Leonard literally like a dog when she goes out on the town in Vegas in the second, arc, but later she seems to be in denial of him being a thrall, actually asking him to do things instead of ordering him and treating him more like a human being than the others (although she doesn't defend him when Suki steals his comic and Zoe and Lesley try to force him to strip). It's an open question whether she was lying about given a choice to become a vampire and how much she had to do with turning Leonard into a thrall. She can be defended for her apology though. She and Leonard obviously had repaired their friendship at the beginning of the final arc, but if she hadn't apologized before he had disappeared she wouldn't have had a chance to do so in the intervening ten years. Even if she had, that was probably the one thing she wanted him to know. The only thing she could do in what was her present after that time was to have Charlotte deliver the message. Waiting to see him personally was a distant prospect was a distant prospect, and she couldn't be sure even a vampire would survive that long. We don't even know if she did.
MrJustice4 wrote: It was like on the pilot episode of Family Guy when Peter said that he felt bad about drinking at the party after he promised Lois that he wouldn't, but then Quagmire said "Oh, don't feel bad about it" and Peter said "Hey, I never thought about it that way." In that scenario, Lori/Lorna was Quagmire and Heather was Peter. Sure, Heather was more kind about having Leonard do stuff for her, but that's because he was ALREADY doing stuff for her long before she even became a vampire because of his feelings for her that she knew of and took advantage of him like how Rarity does with Spike on MLP.
I know about the controversy over whether it was a retcon, but all Adam said was that there was a block of time unaccounted for. Heather could have been lying to let Lori off the hook or been glamoured.MrJustice4 wrote:Also, Google Vampire Cheerleaders TV Troops because they explained that Adam Arnold left out Heather having a choice so the readers could come up with their own theory and so, when revealed, we would see the vampires in a different light, but fans didn't like that at all!
She starts treating Leonard normally later, and he crosses off "Ignoring me" from his list later, and she does thank him for agreeing to keep their secret. She's also distraught at Lori attacking Leonard, which indicates she can overcome her murderous instincts, even more in VCMD! Her main sin with respect to Leonard seems to be going along with her coven instead of standing up to them. That's bad (and fitting for a sex comedy), but not irredeemable, and the possibility of her regaining some of her humanity makes her an interesting character.MrJustice4 wrote: What I hated about that was that Leonard warned Heather, she didn't listen, she gets attacked and turn and then, the next day, she TOTALLY blows Leonard off! Heather didn't even apologize to Leonard, didn't tell him the truth that he already knew and didn't even thank him for being the only person to try and have her back. In fact, when she was turned, not only was she happy about it, but she IMEDIATELY wanted to start KILLING people! Talk about your "WTF" moment.
I can't take credit, someone else said it first. It's from TVTropes, along with Heel Realization. There's a lot of examples for Family Guy.MrJustice4 wrote: BTW, "a 'The Reason You Suck' speech?" I like that, it's funny!