The Discussion Dojo

[SaBomJon]

Hey all,

I have been noticing that not only are there quite a lot of anime otaku that read Ma3, but some other martial artists as well. I apologize if I went too overboard discussing MA in the "We Have A Surprise For You" topic, and wanted to start a thread for readers who wanted to discuss training, culture, etc. of the Eastern persuasion.

Come on in! Take your shoes off at the door, and join us! *bows*

[ShadowRaven]

Removes shoes and bows politley before entering.

[ShadowRaven]

In that case, you have to thank them for asking you, and gently remind them that the instructors are the only ones who are qualified to teach, seeing as their running the class.

I see that a lot, especially with younger kids (and some slightly older) want to jump into learning a lot of technically difficult kick/forms/etc. and you have to remind them that the skills they are taught at different belt levels are there for a reason. It's the whole "want to run before they've barely mastered crawling" syndrome. Something that's only encouraged more and more with attention spans getting shorter and shorter, as well as the general need in the western societies for instant results/gratification. It's things like that which inhibits them from developing focus and concentration..areas that are vital to any type of studying .

right, though ussually the kids I've got are pretty good for not wanting to learn anything more advanced. They just want my help with what they are learning. Ussually kata and such. Thankfully, with our new dojo being built rather then training in the community center as we have been, schedules are going to be adjusted so that we have more classes and the younger kids especially are going to get more hands on training. That will be really nice.

[SaBomJon]

Nice to hear about you getting new digs, that should help. Hopefully your dojo has a large enough staff to accommodate the various ages of the students.

I think it's nice that the kids wanted you to help them, they probably look up to you as an older mentor who is working on some of the same things they are, and want to know if you had any way to help being that you probably understand the material differently than they do, due to you maturity and focus.

I'll be able to log in more workout hours within the next couple months which will help my preparing for 5th Dan. The highest degree you can earn in traditional Tae Kwon Do is 9th Dan. The number nine has some special significances, mainly because it is a multiple of 3, represented in the trigrams (three line designs) of the South Korean flag. The top line in each trigram signifies "heaven", the second line signifies "man", and the third, "earth". I have been told that the four trigrams on the S. Korean flag represent Heaven, Earth, Fire, and Water, but I could be mistaken. The number 9 also has the quality that it is the only number (outside 0) the if you multiply it by itself and add both numerals, you will return to the original number.

9 x 9 = 81, 8 + 1 = 9.

There are different names for instructors and students. Students are "gups" or "lower belt holders", and black belts can be referred to not only as "Sir/Ma'am", but also according to the level of Dan (black belt) or thier instructor status.

A Dan according to rank is: Cho Dan (1st), Ee Dan (2nd), Sam Dan (3rd), Sa Dan (4th), O Dan (5th), Yuk Dan (6th), Chil Dan (7th), Pal Dan (8th), and ultimately Koo Dan (9th).

As far as instructors go, the first level of instructor in my do-jahng (training hall) is a Kyo-Sa (Certified Instructor) this is for black belts between 1st and 3rd Degree. Sa-Bom (Master Instructor) is awarded to black belts 4th degree to 7th degree, and Kwan Jang (Grand Master) is only for 8th and 9th. I know in most Japanese styles there are many levels of instructors and titles given depending on rank and years of experience.

Ok, I've probably prattled on a bit too long, but just wanted to keep the conversation going...

[ShadowRaven]

Staff. Well we have two really. My sensei, and sempia (senior student) for black belts. Sensei is, IIRC 3rd Dan Sempei is first. However, the blue and even some of the green belt students are required to help teach as part of their advancement which helps take the strain off. We also have a brown belt but I have seen her in class a grand total of once.

Best of luck getting your fifth Dan. I have to ask though. IS the advancement of rank still as exciteing a thing past first Dan for you, as it is at the very begining of your training? As a recent orange belt, for me at least this advancement is an incredibley excitieng time, but at this stage my skills are improveing at a readilly apparent rate, and I am constantly learning new things, so the ranking is as much an indicator of the amount of things I know as skill. Does it get to a point where it's less learning new as it is perfecting what you have been taught?

[SaBomJon]

Each test always comes with a lot of tension and nerves, especially my last one when I tested not only for 4th Dan, but to become a Sa-Bom as well. I was training my arse off for that one, doing Tae-Bo for aerobic exercise to help with stamina and endurance...going through forms front, back, and sideways, making sure I had all my self-defense/grab defenses down.

I had always considered becoming a Master was an almost unattainable goal, but that didn't stop me from reaching it. If anything, I wanted to make sure that I felt I was worthy of the title. That test again, was special, since it was the only time my parents had seen me test for a rank. Sure, they saw me compete once or twice, but this was different. I guess this added to the tension since not only did I want to look good in front of the judging panel, but in front of my parents, friends, and my (now) wife.

The nerves for me, usually dissipate after the first few forms, and when I can hit my stride and...as the axiom goes..."Don't think, just Do!". Like any previous rank test, focus on what you need to get done, and the rest will take care of itself. And you are VERY correct in thinking about perfection of technique....that's what any Dan, and especially master-level ranks are always concerned with. I still can't do the splits, but that doesn't keep me from continually trying to do my kicks to the best of my ability.

Getting used to the rank took some time. It took me a while to be comfortable with students referring to me as "Master" or "Sa-Bom Nim" (Honorable Master Instructor). It never fails that wherever you are, you always feel as though you should be about 2-3 ranks BELOW where you are in rank. As journalist and Master Instructor Karen Eden wrote once.."Deep down, nobody feels as though they are really any good at this". That's not to say that we have poor self-esteem, merely that we hold our ranks in such high regard that we feel we need to keep our skills sharp in order to keep these ranks at a high quality level.

The places where I shine are mostly in forms and especially in weapons. Sparring is something I continually work on to improve. I like where I am now, being able to go through the various forms and be able to slip into the "moving meditation" state. It really helps me clear my head, as well as helps focus me on what I need to do to improve. No matter how far in rank I progress, I still want to try to keep the same "beginner mind" that I had when I was a lower belt....where you are now, ShadowRaven. Seeing all there is before you, and the anticipation of learning all those wonderful techniques, and the road to mastery that winds ever on and on..

[ShadowRaven]

Yeah. Standing where I am now, that black belt seems so very far away. It helps that one of my friends who I met through karate was an orange belt when I started, and he just graded for blue (that's two belts up in our style.Each style haveing semi-different ranking systems) With our style it goes Blue, Brown and Black, So I can see how much he has advanced in the time I've been training, and can see it as an atainable goal. My Sempai was also a brown belt when I began, and so I got a chance to see her develop and see how much she still needs to learn as a black belt, which I think has done a lot for me to dispell that myth that 'black belt is the end of your training and learning'

You know, now that I am thinking about it, It's kind of amazing just how much I've learned, not from the training, but from my fellow students and my instructors not about learning the style and the forms, but about what it means to be a Martial Artist. About constantly learning and moveing forward. How to be a better person and a better student. It's really cool. I hope you are also passing on those same subtle 'untaught' lessons to your own students.

[SaBomJon]

which I think has done a lot for me to dispell that myth that 'black belt is the end of your training and learning'

Funny how even in this day and age, people still cling to that old myth! Once you reach that rank, you will clearly know that it is indeed, the BEGINNING of your training. Consider the lower belts, I believe you refer to them as different "kyu" where we in the Korean styles have "gups", this can be examples of a young child learning how to creep, crawl, and ultimately, walk.

Black belts, to stretch this analogy, are learning not only to run, but also to run as fast and as efficiently as possible (yeah, the analogy runs a little thin here, but I think you get the idea.. You really get to open your eyes and find out how much you actually DON"T know about your martial art, and how much more there is to really learn! There are more applications and more "hidden techniques" that are found in the most basic of moves. The rest of the path is spent trying to learn and master them. As the old saying goes, "We all take different paths up the side of the mountain, but we can all see the moon from there."

I hope you are also passing on those same subtle 'untaught' lessons to your own students.

I try to live and lead by example, which is what all teachers should do. I've had many parents of young students praise me for what I've done for their child, and other adult students praise me for being a good teacher. To me, this is worth more than any trophy. Competitions come and go, champions rise and fade, but when you make that positive impact on another person's life....that's where the real reward is! And that's what keeps me going, and helps me not to get sluggish and complacent.

[ShadowRaven]

I think that mythos reguarding black belts is, at least in this day and age, mostly perpetrated through childrens cartoons and the like, as well as other forms of media by the uneducated. Still, I must confess that until I began learning I was unaware that there where different levels of black belt, and that some styles have belts beyond black for the truely advanced

[SaBomJon]

It's always a great feeling of wonder when you find out a new fact about something you've been interested in (like MA), and that fact leads to another, which leads to another, etc., etc. I was surprised as well that there were different dan levels, but something kind of told me that it should only be obvious that there should be some type of recognition for people who have been in it for a long time, as well as how masters are determined, etc.

[midgetshrimp]

I want to start a martial art, but one that is less martial and more artistic. I'm thinking Kung Fu (if I can find a place) or Tai Chi. From an outsider's perspective, these look to be, if rather general, targeting more balance between mental and physical than many other martial arts. I took a session in Jujutsu last year, and though it may have just been my instructor (a black belt, but also a physiology student, so he was young), it seemed to be just violence without real temperament. My cousin (16) is a junior black belt in Uechi-Ryu karate, and that hasn't exactly helped his discipline any. So I guess I'm looking for advice on what discipline you think would present a more balanced approach to martial arts.

[SaBomJon]

Well, the best thing to do is to observe a class being taught, that way you can get a feel for how the instructor teaches, as well as what the attitude of the school and the impression of the style being taught is. Most schools will let you observe, and if they offer a free class, I would suggest taking it. What the instructor emphasizes in teaching, as well as how they run the class will tell you a lot about if this is something you want to learn. I do agree that styles like Jujitsu, Judo, and Kickboxing will accent more on self-defense and competition.

I do believe that there can be a lot of beauty in hard style arts (Karate, Tae Kwon Do) as there can be in the Chinese arts (Tai Chi, Kung Fu, Wu Shu)

Also, doing your homework is good. Look up information on specific styles and ask instructors about their styles/systems. Most instructors will be happy to answer questions you have about what they teach. Also....you have the benefit of the internet, where as when I was younger, I had to scour magazines and books in libraries to get any info...that could be the reason I chose to get an Information Media/Library Science minor in college.

[midgetshrimp]

Nice. Thanks.

[WangyJohn]

I used to do Han Moo Do for a few years some years ago, but lost motivation and quit.

I did meet my best friend from there.

[SaBomJon]

It's funny that you mention Han Mu Do, Wangy. My master instructor just got back from a seminar being taught by Dr. Kim in that style. He wanted to learn more about the Independant Tae Kwon Do Alliance as well as more about Han Mu Do. He had a good time there, and got to review a lot of material.

Sorry to hear that you didn't feel like staying with it, but to look at the bright side, you did benefit by making a good aquaintance.