Magick Chicks 09-12-11 Like an amateur

[Hurbster]

I think it shows the difference between someone who is competent and has been trained for such a situation (maybe not vampires per se) and someone who is pretty overconfident in their own abilities and who has never (at least in the time shown in the comic) had any problems with grabbing lunch off a human. So therefore completely unprepared for resistance.

[Azrael]

Well resistance is futile.

[Moopy]

I'm perfectly content with my single player games, where my character can actually have in impact on the world that matters.

Shogun 2, Plants vs Zombies are both great with a lot of replay value. If you like RPGs more then Skyrim will make you feel like a bad ass killing dragons, but Witcher 2 make you think more, and is emotionally deep.

And there goes an opinion being stated as if it's fact. Considering the number of debates Faith has spawned for one reason or another, and the number of people who have enjoyed updates with her in them, it seems a majority of people disagree with you.

No. As I stated before- a character who has more to grow and struggle to achieve is inherently more interesting than one who's already very powerful. That is fact, and basic plot/script writing. People empathize with characters who are more like them in real life- flawed individuals who have to struggle through problems. I.e. people will empathize more with Batman because he's human, can be shot to death, poisoned, (vulnerable) etc. than they can with Superman, who can do just about anything (invulnerable). That's the classic ones mind you, I have no idea what DC's doing now that they've trashed their IP. Another example- every time I was the game master for our D&D games, I had the choice of being easy or hard on the players. Every time I was easy on them (lots of extra loot, etc) they skated by and had a decent time. "Yea, not bad." they said (this is the powerful character analogy). However, every I beat them within an each of their life before they FINALLY pulled victory out of the jaws of defeat with their bare bloodied hands, they loved it. They would talk about it for days, because they had triumphed not because they were strong, but because they overcame their weaknesses (weaker character analogy) and won.

If people disagree with me, it doesn't make me wrong, it means they've come to their own conclusions, based on their judgements. If they don't buy into my logic, well, so be it. I don't mean to be insulting, but I am direct. Direct can come across as insulting, but that depends on the reader. Being insulting to people right off the bad is no way to get people to listen to what you have to say. I don't mind if people want to have a discussion/debate on the topic, but if people start making assumptions on the way I think, that I take issue with right away.

[Teemo]

well stick a wooden fork in her, but wait this isn't over till the fat lady sings{ i swear if the artists draw a fat lady singing as she is staked i am going to be rolling on the ground in laughing and in tears at the same time.}

[Teemo]

I'm perfectly content with my single player games, where my character can actually have in impact on the world that matters.

Shogun 2, Plants vs Zombies are both great with a lot of replay value. If you like RPGs more then Skyrim will make you feel like a bad ass killing dragons, but Witcher 2 make you think more, and is emotionally deep.

And there goes an opinion being stated as if it's fact. Considering the number of debates Faith has spawned for one reason or another, and the number of people who have enjoyed updates with her in them, it seems a majority of people disagree with you.

No. As I stated before- a character who has more to grow and struggle to achieve is inherently more interesting than one who's already very powerful. That is fact, and basic plot/script writing. People empathize with characters who are more like them in real life- flawed individuals who have to struggle through problems. I.e. people will empathize more with Batman because he's human, can be shot to death, poisoned, (vulnerable) etc. than they can with Superman, who can do just about anything (invulnerable). That's the classic ones mind you, I have no idea what DC's doing now that they've trashed their IP. Another example- every time I was the game master for our D&D games, I had the choice of being easy or hard on the players. Every time I was easy on them (lots of extra loot, etc) they skated by and had a decent time. "Yea, not bad." they said (this is the powerful character analogy). However, every I beat them within an each of their life before they FINALLY pulled victory out of the jaws of defeat with their bare bloodied hands, they loved it. They would talk about it for days, because they had triumphed not because they were strong, but because they overcame their weaknesses (weaker character analogy) and won.

If people disagree with me, it doesn't make me wrong, it means they've come to their own conclusions, based on their judgements. If they don't buy into my logic, well, so be it. I don't mean to be insulting, but I am direct. Direct can come across as insulting, but that depends on the reader. Being insulting to people right off the bad is no way to get people to listen to what you have to say. I don't mind if people want to have a discussion/debate on the topic, but if people start making assumptions on the way I think, that I take issue with right away.

moopy you haven't played darksouls have you?
if you haven't then you really haven't played a HARD game to test you playing power of survivable playing skills and there are some ways that are instant death and there are ways to survive, but you will never be able to survive a 6 vrs 1 fight in darksouls.

skyrim is not reallly as hard as darksouls there are those imes when it can be but Darksouls is meant to try to kill the player and make that player go slow thru the game and try to get all the best weapons and upgrade only to find there another better gear that you could have had if you didnt let this npc kill this npc at this time and date

[Moopy]

I have not played Darksouls, but I'll put it on my wishlist. I won't be able to get to any games for at least a week. Several projects due by the 16th.

[mikbuster]

Isn't your analogy of being 'hard' on your players similar to having an antagonist that is relatively more powerful than the protagonist (Faith compared to the coven)? So wouldn't you find things more interesting because they have to struggle against someone with unknown powers that is very powerful rather than less interesting?

[Random Wanderer]

No.

No? That part isn't up for debate. You ARE stating your opinion (this character is uninteresting) as if it is fact, and there ARE a number of people that disagree with you. The very fact that other people do find her interesting makes your statement wrong. If you said "I believe this character is uninteresting" that would be fine. I would still debate with you, trying to get you to see points that, in my eyes, you are overlooking, but you would not be wrong in that case: you would just have been stating your opinion.

As I stated before- a character who has more to grow and struggle to achieve is inherently more interesting than one who's already very powerful. That is fact, and basic plot/script writing. People empathize with characters who are more like them in real life- flawed individuals who have to struggle through problems. I.e. people will empathize more with Batman because he's human, can be shot to death, poisoned, (vulnerable) etc. than they can with Superman, who can do just about anything (invulnerable). That's the classic ones mind you, I have no idea what DC's doing now that they've trashed their IP. Another example- every time I was the game master for our D&D games, I had the choice of being easy or hard on the players. Every time I was easy on them (lots of extra loot, etc) they skated by and had a decent time. "Yea, not bad." they said (this is the powerful character analogy). However, every I beat them within an each of their life before they FINALLY pulled victory out of the jaws of defeat with their bare bloodied hands, they loved it. They would talk about it for days, because they had triumphed not because they were strong, but because they overcame their weaknesses (weaker character analogy) and won.

Again you are using heroic examples. People like seeing heroes struggle to overcome powerful opposition. The way she has been presented so far, Faith is the powerful opposition. She's not a hero, she's the force the heroes are struggling to overcome. Faith is what you would use to beat your players within an inch of their lives before they finally pull victory out of the jaws of defeat with their bare bloodied hands. That means she has an entirely different role to play than the heroes, and her being very powerful means something entirely different than the heroes being very powerful does.

If you like RPGs more then Skyrim will make you feel like a bad ass killing dragons, but Witcher 2 make you think more, and is emotionally deep.

Already have both of those, actually. Good stuff.

[TCampbell]

I tend to prefer the antagonists whom one needs more than just raw power to defeat. Since the beginning of Magick Chicks people have said things like "Boy, I hope Cerise/Jacqui/Mel/Tiff smacks that Faith bitch down next Tuesday!" But, you know, what then? If it were that easy, it'd create a situation where the protagonists' problems were easily dismissed overall, and that is what I'd find boring. Little victories like Jacqui's (unintentional?) frustration of Faith are a lot sweeter if Faith stays really, really tough.

Now, it is possible to view Faith as a protagonist here, since she aired her worries to Ash at the beginning of this arc, resolved to try being a bit nicer, and at least believes she's putting down a remorseless killer. But she is struggling with the limits of her powers, as truly overpowered characters rarely do. As she said to Ash, she can still be surprised and outmaneuvered. Hell, the last arc featured a pretty unilateral defeat for her, if only because Tiff was just that bold and just that crazy. So I think she's covered, either way.

[Jane]

We've only seen Faith in 55 pages, of which only some nineteen or so could be said to give us insight from her perspective. Most of these strips were spent establishing her as a credible challenge to the Hellrunes, and as someone that we might actually want to see the Hellrunes challenge. If that time had instead been spent establishing her inner conflicts or how difficult it is for her to maintain her complex schedule of ruling the school with a telepathic fist while aspiring to superesperdom while stalking Tiffany... Well, it would make Faith a very interesting character, but we wouldn't see much of the Hellrunes, and there wouldn't be much tension when they came into conflict, as we'd know exactly what the characters would need to do to "win". It would be a superb plot for a completely different webcomic where Faith was the main character struggling to maintain her position in the school against interlopers, however.

Narratively speaking, we also haven't had many occasions where it would be appropriate to delve into Faith's personality or weaknesses - the first chapter needed to establish Who She Was and Why We Should Care, while the second required Faith to win in their contest so that we could get the wand, establishing A Mystery. The third was the best opportunity to introduce these elements, as the focus was completely on her, but... Some of her weaknesses were established there. She started from a completely inaccurate premise and spent the entire time chasing after information that didn't exist, quite possibly tipping her entire hand for no gain, only to lose what little progress she'd made to someone she considered completely harmless. One could argue that this isn't a terribly big weakness, as failing to discover the solution to a significant mystery with no hints simply means she isn't superhuman and she only "lost" because of her own ego, but... Well, if they're "only" going up against a clever and effective antagonist who operates with a realistic set of available information who gets tripped up by her own ego, that doesn't sound terribly overpowered to me.

Er, all of which was more or less a roundabout way of saying... It's still fairly early in the story, and we've only barely got past the stage where they needed to establish that Faith was someone that needed to be taken seriously. If you feel the same way after another 86 pages, then there may well be cause for complaint.

The volume of argumentative fallacies here is defining. Ad Hominem, Argument from Authority, etc... How long someone's been in a forum is meaningless unless you make the conscious choice to not listen to someone based solely on a time stamp. Being here 1 day or 1 year doesn't change the validity of what you have to say.

Presentation still matters when it comes to people listening to you, however. That it logically should not matter is beside the point; by making such a statement in your second post, it establishes an adversarial tone, and establishes people's first impression of you as being an impolite person. The first causes people to care more about being "right" than they do your point; the second invites escalation as people question why they should extend courtesy to you when you are unwiling to reciprocate. These are both factors that are mitigated if people have more experience with you, as it gives them reason to believe that such behavior is out of the norm for you, inviting more tolerance.

In this episode she easily overcomes one of the strongest characters in another comic. No fight, no challenge, just BAM, done. Huh.

I'm not entirely certain that we can definitively state Layla to be one of the strongest characters in Eerie Cuties; it's not really a comic focused around strength to begin with, and we've seen events that would suggest otherwise. When Brooke and Layla scuffled, Layla didn't really seem to have the upper hand, and Chloe managed to brainwash the entire school at one point. To say nothing of the part where she's, well, "just" a student at a school for supernatural beings; I may have missed a detail at some point (meant sincerely, not sarcastically), but I don't recall anything that would suggest that any form of combat would be in the curricullum, unlike that of Artemis Academy.

Secondly, given the nature of their encounter, that's to be expected; Faith had the element of surprise, and both of their "techniques" are of an instant-win-if-it-works nature. If Layla had realized Faith was a slayer, and bit harder (assuming she would be inclined to kill Faith at all), it would have been over then; likewise with her attempt to mesmerize Faith afterwards. On a similar token, had Layla ever studied how to resist esper abilities, Faith would find her options greatly limited, and would likely find herself incapacitated when Layla took advantage of her surprise. Well, if she wasn't restrained by psionic cuffs, but I'm assuming that Faith knocked her out for a reason, there.

I would also like to point out that this is somewhat like expecting there to parity in a crossover between a shonen manga and a slice of life series - that they are the strongest in their respective settings means little when one of the characters is a soldier and the other is a bartender. In this specific case, Faith has been studying how to fight and (presumably) kill monsters for an undefined number of years, and is established as having innate talent in this field; Layla, while of a race that generally possesses a fearsome reputation, is still just a student with undefined life goals, and her ability to fight has very rarely come up.

Since the beginning of Magick Chicks people have said things like "Boy, I hope Cerise/Jacqui/Mel/Tiff smacks that Faith bitch down next Tuesday!" But, you know, what then? If it were that easy, it'd create a situation where the protagonists' problems were easily dismissed overall, and that is what I'd find boring.

I must confess to never having understood this . The challenge of Magic Chicks has been presented as a social one; while beating Faith in a fight might be satisfying for some readers, it wouldn't really have much of an effect. It might see a brief boost in popularity for whoever did it, in the same way Cerise has leveraged her "defeat" of Dusty into becoming a brief star, but it would take far more than that for them to achieve the position they're seeking... And it wouldn't really diminish Faith's position that severely. Nothing has suggested that her popularity is rooted in her being the strongest.

[Lighthawk]

It is mentioned that mr Delacroix is way older than the Impressionist painter with the same name. It is also mentioned that he personally knew the vampire queen, which is depicted to live in what seems to be the middle ages. That would bring my estimate to more than a millenia, since he doesn't seem that old and is still raising children.

Yes, but none of that tells us what a vampire's life expectancy is, just that it's far more than normal. What counts as old age for a vampire? 2000 years? 5000 years? A million? Maybe they're just immortal unless killed. In which case Layla's life expectancy could be anywhere between the next few seconds and the heat death of the universe. Trying to apply a percentage with such an immensely vast unknown seems rather pointless.

The rule of funny, duh.

If you mean the guardian part,

In fact, I did. I'll try to crop the quotes to more manageable bits for you.

see this strip:
http://www.eeriecuties.com/strips-ec/best_friend

Seen it, heard the vast array of fan theory it spawned. In the end though, it tells us almost entirely nothing. The only thing that comic tells us with any reasonable certainty is that Blair was ready to stake Nina depending on the outcome of their conversation. Exactly what the staking criteria would have been though is a complete unknown.

This already suggest Blair is really afraid of Nina developing a taste for blood. Since he obviously didn't stake Layla when she started drinking blood, he seems to be especially concerned about Nina in particular. He's specifically assigned to prevent the awakening of a specific vampire.

You don't know that. That is pure fan theory, based on little more than Nina's passing resemblance to the ancient vampire queen. There is zero actual proof that she is the queen reborn, or that Blair has any connection to any of it. It's a fun theory, but one lacking any credible evidence.

This is unlikely to be entirely his doing, so he's probably a member of some organisation, fellowship or whatever.

I'm sorry, but what evidence is there to even suggest this?

Random guesswork.

So, you're just spouting off a possible fan theory? Cause if that's all this is, then there's not much to discuss. However you have been presenting this theory as if it had strong credibility, which it really doesn't.

This could be partly or solely a Delacroix family matter of course, but if he's with the Artemis side he could definitely justify a case for his superiors that killing Layla would interfere with his mission, should he want to.

Yes, his mission...of which we know absolutely nothing of, or have any reason to believe actually exists.

If he's with the Delacroix only, he could be anything from a minor familar to a trappped powerful wizard or the like. In that case he coul still infiltrate the school though.

Until we see something to suggest Blair is anything other than a pervert in the body of a doll, the only thing I'm going to be able to see him infiltrating is the locker rooms.

She's finally in a position where she can think, and currently I think an interrogation seems more likely.

Well, that's your opinion, so not much more to say here. I'd say it seems much more likely that Faith's next move will be to (try to) stake Layla before she has a chance to try another escape attempt.

Seriously, mind break and bound hands against a wall? A threatening but impractical weapon in her hand?

Actually, with a little telekinesis behind it, I see no reason why Faith couldn't easily shank Layla with that chair leg.

Seems like a perfect time for an interrogation, which may lead to keeping her alive for further interrogations regarding CH.

Assuming Faith believes Layla might know anything useful. Assuming Faith would care. Assuming she'd believe Layla.

The alternative is plain, MMAA interference.

Which is actually the most likely continuation, regardless of which of us, or if neither of us, is correct.

For interrogation purposes? That's fairly standard when you're fighting a war, ideological or otherwise, against remotely organized enemies.

What war? The Hunters vs Monsters thing seems to be a fairly one sided affair. None of the characters in EC have given any indication that they are in anything approaching a state of war. They seem to just be trying to live normal supernatural lives. Hell, if there was a war going on, than Layla's actions in the last few strips have been the absolute height of utter insanity. If there's a war going on, then her parents must want her to die, given how many times she's been allowed out in public alone.

For the Artemis side, I think it's rather telling that they're training Hunters, not Soldiers. Granted it might be reading a bit much into the word choice, but they give off more an impression that they are preparing these girls to square off against individual or small groups of monsters, not an organization. If they were in a state of warfare against an organized force, then their security is pathetically inadequate given that a bunch of trainees from their brother school were able to get inside to steal breastplates. A school like that would be a high priority target in a war, and should be far better guarded.

Status quo is Mel studying at Artemis and trying to spank Faith as far as I'm concerned. Currently she's in kind of a bad spot since one of her former aquaintances was exposed as a vampire. Faith might not make the connection herself, but depending on how the EC storyline goes and if we get a Ranma plot, it could get a lot worse. The witnesses need to be silenced somehow, by some plot element, unless MC is going to change radically.

Actually, there isn't any direct connection between Mel and Layla with what info Faith has. Reread the last few comics, Layla is perceived as Kade's ex-girlfriend, and Kade's relation to Mel is left unstated. Faith assumed that Kade is Mel experimenting. Faith might bring up the fact that the "girl" Mel is seeing used to go out (or be prey to, or both) with a vampire, but unless Mel is an idiot, it wouldn't be too hard for her to creditably fake ignorance of Layla and what she is.

As I said, this isn't my primary guess and less likely.

It is a possible storyline though, depending on how important the "Cthulu Nina" storyline is to the universe as a whole. If it implies the end of the world as we know it, the Artemis side is probably aware of it and bound to be more interested in keeping the status quo than starting a petty war directed at a single vampire family that seems to have been living a fairly isolated life. You don't want to make a wrong move when the state of the world lies in the balance.

Right...well seeing as that's all just guesses and theory based upon more theory and assumptions, there's really not much to say to it.

[TCampbell]

Last post on this thread and for a while, promise.

I'm not entirely certain that we can definitively state Layla to be one of the strongest characters in Eerie Cuties; it's not really a comic focused around strength to begin with, and we've seen events that would suggest otherwise. When Brooke and Layla scuffled, Layla didn't really seem to have the upper hand, and Chloe managed to brainwash the entire school at one point. To say nothing of the part where she's, well, "just" a student at a school for supernatural beings; I may have missed a detail at some point (meant sincerely, not sarcastically), but I don't recall anything that would suggest that any form of combat would be in the curricullum, unlike that of Artemis Academy.

Secondly, given the nature of their encounter, that's to be expected; Faith had the element of surprise, and both of their "techniques" are of an instant-win-if-it-works nature. If Layla had realized Faith was a slayer, and bit harder (assuming she would be inclined to kill Faith at all), it would have been over then; likewise with her attempt to mesmerize Faith afterwards. On a similar token, had Layla ever studied how to resist esper abilities, Faith would find her options greatly limited, and would likely find herself incapacitated when Layla took advantage of her surprise. Well, if she wasn't restrained by psionic cuffs, but I'm assuming that Faith knocked her out for a reason, there.

I would also like to point out that this is somewhat like expecting there to parity in a crossover between a shonen manga and a slice of life series - that they are the strongest in their respective settings means little when one of the characters is a soldier and the other is a bartender. In this specific case, Faith has been studying how to fight and (presumably) kill monsters for an undefined number of years, and is established as having innate talent in this field; Layla, while of a race that generally possesses a fearsome reputation, is still just a student with undefined life goals, and her ability to fight has very rarely come up.

Basically, this is exactly right. Faith was introduced as the strongest esper in the school's history, a school where people train to fight, where they learn other things that help them fight, and pause for recreational activities like breastplate raids, where they ALSO fight. She's basically the psychic, morally gray Wonder Woman. Layla's not exactly a pushover, but she's had a relatively easy life, and has never before even faced a slayer who consistently wanted to kill her. Even if Layla were well-trained in combat, the odds would heavily favor Faith. As it is, anything resembling a fair fight was going to end more or less like this.

It was possible that Faith might've shown her hand before Layla showed hers. She could've tried to impress Layla by saying "I go to a school for heroes and monster killers," and Layla could've played it cool, waited for the right moment, then tried to put Faith's head halfway through a wall. Faith juuust might be unprepared for that, depending on how horny she was.

Since the beginning of Magick Chicks people have said things like "Boy, I hope Cerise/Jacqui/Mel/Tiff smacks that Faith bitch down next Tuesday!" But, you know, what then? If it were that easy, it'd create a situation where the protagonists' problems were easily dismissed overall, and that is what I'd find boring.

I must confess to never having understood this . The challenge of Magic Chicks has been presented as a social one; while beating Faith in a fight might be satisfying for some readers, it wouldn't really have much of an effect. It might see a brief boost in popularity for whoever did it, in the same way Cerise has leveraged her "defeat" of Dusty into becoming a brief star, but it would take far more than that for them to achieve the position they're seeking... And it wouldn't really diminish Faith's position that severely. Nothing has suggested that her popularity is rooted in her being the strongest.

Well... kinda-sorta? No, one defeat probably wouldn't diminish Faith's status much. Everybody loses, now and again. Faith didn't exactly win against Ash in Chapter 1, and that didn't seem to turn off her fans at all.

That said, I do think Faith's power is at the core of her popularity. When the school is under attack, everyone defers to her. Yeah, she's at least a competent leader, and her powers are useful for coordinating forces. But she's also strong, she can protect them, she makes them feel safe. To say Mel doesn't yet grasp this sort of "merit-based" social structure is to say that Nina doesn't grasp dating etiquette. (Cerise may be an arrogant ass, but she actually seems to get this much. If only she were as strong or skilled as she tells herself she is, she'd be running this joint.)

But that wasn't the real point I was after. The point is that if humiliating Faith started to seem easy-- if she became more of an "episodic" villain, like Reggie Mantle or Gargamel-- then the MCs would be denied some huge opportunities for growth.

[Jane]

Ah, sorry, I didn't mean to imply that that was what you were saying... I was just using that specific line to jump off into a point that was only somewhat related ^^; . That was much more clear in the first writing, but I ended up deleting most of it...

To clarify my statements, though, what I meant more was that it seems like the coven doesn't have much of an understanding of the culture of their new school, despite their desire for popularity. Until they have that, they're not really capable of challenging Faith in any sort of meaningful sense.

Melissa doesn't seem like she would know how to capitalize on her position even if she were capable of consistently beating Faith; Faith might not be the absolute strongest in such a situation, but she still understands the school and what it wants in a way that Melissa does not, and would remain significantly stronger than anyone outside of the coven. To put it another way, strength is a key element to Faith's popularity, but it doesn't seem that being the strongest is necessarily the most important factor. Melissa isn't a leader (at least not in the ways Artemis wants*), doesn't know how to make people feel safe, and isn't really interested in protecting people**, among other things, which would prevent her from really cementing her position, even if it would improve her popularity. It just doesn't seem like Melissa has the right personality to work in Artemis's framework at this point, though I'm certain she'd be willing to adjust to it if she understood what was wrong, and didn't see an alternative route to replacing Faith.

Of course, I could well be selling Melissa and her coven short; they seem pretty good at recognizing when something is going well for them, and going with the flow. It would be possible for them to blunder into the correct answer, like Cerise seems to have had a degree of success with. Likewise, they seem like they should be good at figuring out the dynamics of a given social network given a bit of time; they won't be fish out of water forever. Just... Up to this point, they don't seem to be considering what would make them popular there.

I'd offer up an analogy at this point to better clarify what I'm trying to say, but quite frankly, they'd all be painfully bad. I'd rather my point remained muddled than actually subject anyone else to my tortured comparisons to cars, film revenues, or ice cream flavors. I therefore offer my apology if this post didn't make a great deal of sense; it's gotten a bit late here, and I think some things now read rather awkwardly after I merged, deleted, and rearranged several paragraphs...

*I assume, at least. I don't think Melissa would have responded as efficiently to the Apollo raid, as I can't imagine she's been in a position where she needed to do anything like plan defenses against raids from rival schools, but I admit I could be mistaken. There's no evidence that would contradict it, that I can think of offhand.

**Well, okay, I don't think she'd just let people get hurt either, but I don't get the impression that she'd really care either way.

[Hurbster]

Problem is, Faith has to be established (in order to be top dog at the school) as worse/more powerful than the Hellrunes. This is probably why she is always portrayed...



Only now are we seeing that she occasionally does not have things all her own way.

(and that she is the school bike)

[Azrael]

I tend to prefer the antagonists whom one needs more than just raw power to defeat. Since the beginning of Magick Chicks people have said things like "Boy, I hope Cerise/Jacqui/Mel/Tiff smacks that Faith bitch down next Tuesday!" But, you know, what then? If it were that easy, it'd create a situation where the protagonists' problems were easily dismissed overall, and that is what I'd find boring. Little victories like Jacqui's (unintentional?) frustration of Faith are a lot sweeter if Faith stays really, really tough.

Soooo...what you're saying is that even though Faith Abbot's really got us annoyed, we should remember if they kill her then they'll be unemployed?