2019-01-18 A game of leverage

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Ecchi-Spud
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Re: 2019-01-18 A game of leverage

Post by Ecchi-Spud » Wed May 22, 2019 2:09 pm

"Pardner, there comes a time in every partnership where the Party of the First Part has no recourse except to KNOCK SOME SENSE into the Party of the Second Part!!" -- B. Rumson
Many thanks to Raamyah for the avvie!!!!

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Zippy
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Re: 2019-01-18 A game of leverage

Post by Zippy » Wed May 22, 2019 4:20 pm

LegendaryKroc wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 11:58 pm
I see Zoe's Batman-like approach to interacting with her protegées has not changed a bit. Although that being said, this is beyond even the worst of what mainstream Batman did to any of his sons, be they adopted OR biological. So I guess she's closer to Talia al Ghul in that respect.
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Cresset
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Re: 2019-01-18 A game of leverage

Post by Cresset » Wed May 22, 2019 5:24 pm

Eisu wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 9:19 pm
Just to let you know, that's not the actual thumbnail for this strip. That's a thumbnail for an older strip but sometimes the server takes a bit of time to refresh old images to the new updated one that I uploaded (the filename was the same, the old and the new, it's supposed to be overwriting the image but the server does this from time to time)
I figured (it's from this strip), but I thought the uploader misclicked and had to be told about the issue to correct it. smug_sandra.png will be useful regardless.

Gotoh
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Re: 2019-01-18 A game of leverage

Post by Gotoh » Wed May 22, 2019 6:02 pm

I gotta say that I really like the art in this update, especially the expressions in panels 1 and 3. It really conveys the tension in the room between Eva's smugness, Marie's confusion, and the concern seen on Sandra and Ingrid's faces. Good stuff.

That said, I'm reserving judgement on Zoé's course of action for now, 'though I wish she would come down from 'Hulk SMASH!!' mode, if only for a moment, and actually explain/handle things like a rational adult. Is that too much to ask? Marie asked a fairly reasonable question. From her perspective, it really does seem that they're both using her to settle a personal grudge. And she gets slapped for it?

As an aside: I facepalm nearly every time I see the 'slap the hysterical person' schtick used in anything, 'cuz (realistically) they aren't likely to wanna listen to anything from whoever just slugged them. Instead, they're more likely to walk out, or hit back.

RConrad
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Re: 2019-01-18 A game of leverage

Post by RConrad » Wed May 22, 2019 7:09 pm

Thing is, Gotoh, Zoe's actions have never given Marie any logical reason to think she's trying to use her settle the score with Eva. Zoe didn't know until later that Eva was the one who got her on a magazine cover, and much later, that she pulled the strings that gave her the commercial gig.

And frankly, Marie's easily manipulated and fooled. She first saw Eva make a thinly-veiled threat towards Sandra, and Zoe reciprocating, only for her to be later convinced that it was all 'playful'. She's been convinced by Eva to be abusive and mean-spirited, and when learning that she's the reason why her friend disappeared for a year and threatened to blacklist her, is still thinking that Zoe doesn't have her best interests at heart, even when she told her that Eva's way would end badly for her.

So she needed a good smack to the face to make her listen. And my own interpretation of the way her frown is set in the 4th panel is, "Yeah, I'm angry. But I'm angry because you think I'm like HER!"

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LegendaryKroc
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Re: 2019-01-18 A game of leverage

Post by LegendaryKroc » Wed May 22, 2019 9:01 pm

Zippy wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 4:20 pm
LegendaryKroc wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 11:58 pm
I see Zoe's Batman-like approach to interacting with her protegées has not changed a bit. Although that being said, this is beyond even the worst of what mainstream Batman did to any of his sons, be they adopted OR biological. So I guess she's closer to Talia al Ghul in that respect.
Image
In my defense, that is a VERY recent example - as in, a week or so at most.

Gotoh
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Re: 2019-01-18 A game of leverage

Post by Gotoh » Wed May 22, 2019 9:52 pm

RConrad wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 7:09 pm
Thing is, Gotoh, Zoe's actions have never given Marie any logical reason to think she's trying to use her settle the score with Eva. Zoe didn't know until later that Eva was the one who got her on a magazine cover, and much later, that she pulled the strings that gave her the commercial gig.
That isn't how Marie sees it, which is why smacking her (or anyone having an emotional breakdown) is generally a bad idea. There are better ways to calm someone down and get them to listen.
RConrad wrote:She's been convinced by Eva to be abusive and mean-spirited, and when learning that she's the reason why her friend disappeared for a year and threatened to blacklist her, is still thinking that Zoe doesn't have her best interests at heart, even when she told her that Eva's way would end badly for her.
Ater fleeting from a manager who also seemed abusive and mean-spirited, so Zoé doesn't seem any better than Eva from Marie's perspective.
RConrad wrote:my own interpretation of the way her frown is set in the 4th panel is, "Yeah, I'm angry. But I'm angry because you think I'm like HER!"
Because she's given Marie reason to think it and, so far, Zoé isn't proving her wrong.

RConrad
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Re: 2019-01-18 A game of leverage

Post by RConrad » Wed May 22, 2019 10:24 pm

You have to remember that Zoe may also be smacking her as a small measure of payback for the smack she was given the last time they were seen together. I'm not going to argue about that any further, even if you're right about the last part. But this is a comic. Logic isn't always going to be applied. And humans don't always act logically and predictably.

And Marie's perspective is highly flawed for reasons I've already stated, so she should take a step back and realize that she should second-guess the things she thought about Zoe.

And your third point? Marie's interactions with Zoe have been minimal. She can't be a good judge of character with a person who, up to this point, she's only been around and talked with 4 times and not for very long. A person that she knows has a rivalry with an unscrupulous manipulator. So again, she should let Zoe explain herself instead of assuming the worst about her.

#Deserved

OllieOrOlly
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Re: 2019-01-18 A game of leverage

Post by OllieOrOlly » Thu May 23, 2019 10:28 am

I don't think physical assault is the right course of action... At times in the strip, it is used for slapstick, but this seems more like a dramatic moment. Maybe Marie does need some sense slapped into her, but so literally? It basically puts her between the psychological oppression of Eva and the physical threat from Zoe, thus could reinforce her feelings of being trapped.

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Spidrift
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Re: 2019-01-18 A game of leverage

Post by Spidrift » Thu May 23, 2019 12:22 pm

Amusing as it would be for Sandra and Ingrid to step in here, say “Oh FFS, Zoé”, and take Marie off with them to form a self-owned cooperative agency... I fear it’s not going to happen.
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TwoWayStar
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Re: 2019-01-18 A game of leverage

Post by TwoWayStar » Sat May 25, 2019 12:37 pm

A dramatic slap has had its place in graphic stories (stories PERIOD really) for probably the exact amount of time humans first started inscribing stories down.

Please get down from your pulpits.

P.S. Image

Gotoh
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Re: 2019-01-18 A game of leverage

Post by Gotoh » Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:45 am

TwoWayStar wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 12:37 pm
A dramatic slap has had its place in graphic stories (stories PERIOD really) for probably the exact amount of time humans first started inscribing stories down.
Yeah, it's been done to death and it still doesn't make sense no matter how many times writers use it. It's more likely to provoke a negative response than a positive one. If someone b!tch slapped you just because you were venting, or upset, would you honestly be willing to listen to anything they had to say? Or would be more likely to hit back (physically or verbally)?

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Eisu
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Re: 2019-01-18 A game of leverage

Post by Eisu » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:26 am

TwoWayStar wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 12:37 pm
A dramatic slap has had its place in graphic stories (stories PERIOD really) for probably the exact amount of time humans first started inscribing stories down.

Please get down from your pulpits.

P.S. Image
Guess where I got the idea for Zoe's pose from ^_^

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