2018-12-25 The lap of luxury

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Eisu
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2018-12-25 The lap of luxury

Post by Eisu » Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:19 pm


RConrad
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Re: 2018-12-25 The lap of luxury

Post by RConrad » Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:23 pm

Aaaaaand that's a shot in the foot!

Image

Anyway. I saw Eva's overconfidence being her own undoing. But I didn't except it this soon.

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Spidrift
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Re: 2018-12-25 The lap of luxury

Post by Spidrift » Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:28 pm

One has to assume that she’s got bored with how easy it is to play a fame-hungry teenage girl with just enough natural talent that she can actually be brought on with a little work, and sabotaged herself out of sheer ennui.

Either that or Dave has remembered that he needs to end the comic fairly soon.

Anyhow, I like the art, even if the ceiling view panel 1 is a bit extreme.
---------
Spidrift
"Brevior vita est quam pro futumentibus negotium agendo."
-- Motto of Hogshead Publishing of fond memory, and wise words to set your Foes List by.
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Gotoh
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Re: 2018-12-25 The lap of luxury

Post by Gotoh » Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:58 pm

RConrad wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:23 pm
Aaaaaand that's a shot in the foot!

Anyway. I saw Eva's overconfidence being her own undoing. But I didn't except it this soon.
Not necessarily. Zoé does the same thing, remember? In fact, Domenico said she was that way even before she became famous.

Sandra also gained fame despite several disasters, with help from Zoé. If Eva's done her homework, all she needs to do is point that out.

RConrad
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Re: 2018-12-25 The lap of luxury

Post by RConrad » Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:03 pm

Gotoh wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:58 pm
Not necessarily. Zoé does the same thing, remember? In fact, Domenico said she was that way even before she became famous.

Sandra also gained fame despite several disasters, with help from Zoé. If Eva's done her homework, all she needs to do is point that out.
As Domenico puts it in that first page you linked, Zoe is headstrong, which isn't exactly synonymous with Eva's overconfidence. Zoe's willful. It's her way or the highway; her way being that of a pragmatic professional, as I would describe it. She just has a nasty temper when things don't go as she's planned or she's defied.

And Sandra's hiccups didn't result in a more destructive disaster than what Marie did.

This can all be boiled down to the difference in how Zoe and Eva do things, as the former herself pointed out.

And Marie was initially going to listen to Zoe's warning, Eva just had a great incentive to make her forget about it.

But I doubt Eva has Lukas and his well-sculpted abs right then and there to distract them.

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Re: 2018-12-25 The lap of luxury

Post by Gotoh » Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:35 pm

RConrad wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:03 pm
Zoe's willful. It's her way or the highway; her way being that of a pragmatic professional, as I would describe it. She just has a nasty temper when things don't go as she's planned or she's defied.
A professional doesn't blow their stack when things don't go their way, nor do they adhere to 'do as I say, not as I do'. A pro knows how to manage properly and leads by way of example.

However, that wasn't the point I was making. Eva said you can only get away with disastrous auditions once you're famous. Sandra gained fame despite several disasters. She even caught Domenico's eye just for being there and because she happened to have freckles.
RConrad wrote:And Sandra's hiccups didn't result in a more destructive disaster than what Marie did.
Zoé disagrees, 'cuz she was about to can Sandra for being in that Gamescon event, until Zoé changed her mind.
RConrad wrote:This can all be boiled down to the difference in how Zoe and Eva do things, as the former herself pointed out.
Zoé didn't say anything about Eva, or her methods, in that scene. She was speaking in general about how harsh the fashion industry can be. Which ignores the fact that Zoé's method isn't the only path to success.

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Re: 2018-12-25 The lap of luxury

Post by RConrad » Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:43 am

Gotoh wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:35 pm
A professional doesn't blow their stack when things don't go their way, nor do they adhere to 'do as I say, not as I do'. A pro knows how to manage properly and leads by way of example.

However, that wasn't the point I was making. Eva said you can only get away with disastrous auditions once you're famous. Sandra gained fame despite several disasters. She even caught Domenico's eye just for being there and because she happened to have freckles.
Zoe's blowing of her stack comes from being one of the few sane people in the comic. She's made to deal with the likes of Sandra, Domenico, and Cammi, etc. It's perfectly understandable why she's scowling half the time we see her.

And comparing Eva's comment about getting away with things to Sandra's bumpy road to success is faulty. By merely being chastised by Zoe, Sandra hasn't gotten away with her actions, whereas Marie hasn't faced any repercussion whatsoever for the things she's done. And not only that, Eva taught her from day one bad behavior.
Gotoh wrote:Zoé disagrees, 'cuz she was about to can Sandra for being in that Gamescon event, until Zoé changed her mind.
Gotoh wrote:Zoé didn't say anything about Eva, or her methods, in that scene. She was speaking in general about how harsh the fashion industry can be. Which ignores the fact that Zoé's method isn't the only path to success.
In both the statements I made, I was referring to how Marie destroyed the room (and a plant) and Zoe didn't need to talk about Eva specifically because Eva's method is exactly that, respectively

Gotoh
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Re: 2018-12-25 The lap of luxury

Post by Gotoh » Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:10 am

RConrad wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:43 am
Zoe's blowing of her stack comes from being one of the few sane people in the comic.
A sane person wouldn't mug someone for their clothes (they'd ask) and they don't kick down doors when they have a key.
RConrad wrote:By merely being chastised by Zoe, Sandra hasn't gotten away with her actions
Yes she did. Zoé let her off the hook in the same strip I linked to and she helped Sandra keep the DM gig when Domenico objected.
RConrad wrote:whereas Marie hasn't faced any repercussion whatsoever for the things she's done.
Her current emotional state says otherwise. Eva has used and corrupted her.
RConrad wrote:In both the statements I made, I was referring to how Marie destroyed the room (and a plant) and Zoe didn't need to talk about Eva specifically because Eva's method is exactly that, respectively
Only because it's Eva and only because she has a grudge with Zoé. So obviously the narrative will favor Zoé by proving her point. But it's possible that Marie still could've achieved the same success under a more benign talent agent.

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brasca
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Re: 2018-12-25 The lap of luxury

Post by brasca » Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:19 am

Spidrift wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:28 pm
One has to assume that she’s got bored with how easy it is to play a fame-hungry teenage girl with just enough natural talent that she can actually be brought on with a little work, and sabotaged herself out of sheer ennui.

Either that or Dave has remembered that he needs to end the comic fairly soon.
Probably column B. While I think overconfidence will be her undoing Eva might be thinking there's nothing Marie can do even if she turns on her. She burned her bridges with Zoe and she might have a reputation of being so temperamental that other modeling agencies wouldn't hire her.

RConrad
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Re: 2018-12-25 The lap of luxury

Post by RConrad » Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:27 am

Gotoh...

Her questionable acts aside, Zoe's obviously one of the most sane main characters, with another being Ingrid. I'd originally add Lavali, but even after the Island, she still hallucinates the Goddess of Clothing.

As for the belief Sandra hasn't face any repercussion for her actions whatsoever, being verbally berated still counts. Zoe's backtracking was for the sake of Sandra's career, which still had promise. And she wasn't going to let Hurricane Domenico trash Sandra's big break for his own purposes.

And Marie's guilty feelings really can't compare to Zoe giving Sandra a tongue-lashing and shipping her back to Canada. She hasn't been punished in any way by Eva. Eva has in fact protected her career from being ruined, while Zoe's a practitioner of tough love.

And by stating that Marie could achieve the success under someone else besides Eva (or Zoe), you're not really proving your point, or any point besides mine.

WizzarTheRed
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Re: 2018-12-25 The lap of luxury

Post by WizzarTheRed » Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:42 am

Really? A premature villain gloat? Dang it, Eva, I thought you were better than that...

Renadt
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Re: 2018-12-25 The lap of luxury

Post by Renadt » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:03 am

Here is the thing- This will throw everything Marie believed about herself out the window. Eva might try to salvage that image if she were to realize her mistake, but she probably won't until Marie makes it known that she went too far. But Sandra can then help her realize her faults while boosting her good qualities.

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christopheftw
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Re: 2018-12-25 The lap of luxury

Post by christopheftw » Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:10 am

Finally! Now we are getting somewhere!

Gotoh
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Re: 2018-12-25 The lap of luxury

Post by Gotoh » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:58 pm

RConrad wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:27 am
Her questionable acts aside, Zoe's obviously one of the most sane main characters.
In what way? Sane people know how to keep it together, even under pressure. Zoé blows her stack at the drop of a dime.
RConrad wrote:And by stating that Marie could achieve the success under someone else besides Eva (or Zoe), you're not really proving your point, or any point besides mine.
If Marie had met a more benign talent agent and achieved the same success, without having to follow Zoé's methods, it'd prove my point.

The only reason it didn't turn out that way, is because the narrative favors Zoé (because she's the "good guy"). Therefore, Marie has to crash 'n burn so Zoé can say told-you-so.

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Re: 2018-12-25 The lap of luxury

Post by RConrad » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:17 pm

Gotoh wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:58 pm
In what way? Sane people know how to keep it together, even under pressure. Zoé blows her stack at the drop of a dime.
The majority of times we've seen her are times where she's stressed, especially later in the webcomics. From Domenico abducting Sandra, to calling Sandra in about her improptu naked 'photoshoot'. And she has a right to be angry or irritated during these times. And the first time we officially meet Eva, Zoe kept her cool when she made a threat towards Sandra.
Gotoh wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:58 pm
If Marie had met a more benign talent agent and achieved the same success, without having to follow Zoé's methods, it'd prove my point.

The only reason it didn't turn out that way, is because the narrative favors Zoé (because she's the "good guy"). Therefore, Marie has to crash 'n burn so Zoé can say told-you-so.
Zoe's method is the benign way. The slow crawl to the top where no shortcuts are taken, no bribes, threats, or string-pulling. Sandra's career had bumps because of Sandra's natural magnetism towards mishaps, due to her MC status (and alcoholism). Zoe may not be a saint, but she's the preferable alternative to the manipulative and ego-maniacal Eva, especially if you don't give her reason to be angry.

Otherwise, yeah. Find an agent whose less likely to be angry. But again, it's not entirely Zoe's fault. It's her environment.

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