2018-06-15 Not sheating

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dmra
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Re: 2018-06-15 Not sheating

Post by dmra » Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:24 am

As long as Nadine has contacts Eloise will always have time for her.

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Spidrift
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Re: 2018-06-15 Not sheating

Post by Spidrift » Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:13 am

vampire hunter D wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:07 am
But, what about Nadine if Eloise can make the lannister relationshipupgrade with pierre?
They’re not brother and sister, they’re cousins. All perfectly legal, even if Eloise would prefer otherwise. And she doesn’t seem likely to be too worried about monogamy, even with Pierre.
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dmra
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Re: 2018-06-15 Not sheating

Post by dmra » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:49 am

Possibly being heretical here but I'd take issue with the notion that Pierre has no "character". I'd say he has as much character as most of the rest of the cast. He's a hard working decent artisan proud of what he does laid back and with flashes of humour. How does that compare with say Zoe, Tatiana or Alex?

Where are their in depth character traits?

Even some of the more fleshed out or frequently occurring characters are essentially walking stereotypes. Eloise is basically a caricature ambitious and bitchy model sleeping her way to the top who is jealous of Sandra because of her success and because Sandra is dating her "true" love. Not exactly Hamlet is it. And it's not as though it's even that original in SOTR. Both Sandra and Zoe are the subject of vendettas by other jealous less successful rivals.

I think the issue some people have with Pierre is that laid back decent and hard-working doesn't lend itself to comedy - or at least not the kind of unrealistic (but still very funny) comedy that SOTR provides - so we haven't seen as much of him as of other more OTT characters.

Now of course it probably helps that he looks like a model himself but he has managed to attract and keep the interest of both Sandra and Eloise. Both of whom work in an industry where beauty and muscles are hardly in short supply. So maybe there's more to him than most people posting give him credit for.

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Spidrift
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Re: 2018-06-15 Not sheating

Post by Spidrift » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:30 am

Yeah, fair enough. You're not wrong. The problem, though, is that Sandra is supposed to have fallen for him. When the story's lead character gets a romantic interest, we naturally want to know why she's picked this guy over the rest of the planet.

Now, in this case, the initial reason was boringly obvious; Pierre was hunky, blond, flattered her, and was written as fairly charming. But we haven't had anything much since. Heck, in this scene, we didn't really know if he was going to be angry, or jealous, or amused, or keen to jump on the threesome idea... He defaulted to sort-of "average sane guy" responses, but even that looks like a factory setting.

And yeah, " laid back decent and hard-working" doesn't lend itself to comedy, but that plus a few personal details might have carried him through. Instead, we get the feeling that Dave couldn't even think of any quirks, so Pierre is just being dropped as inconvenient.

Compare Erik in Ma3, who suffered similar problems and a similar fate, but at least demonstrated a few personal details along the way; trying to prove something, alcohol-resistant, and most importantly, a bit too infatuated with Zii's "wild bisexual rock chick" persona. Which made their eventual break-up the product of irony, because Zii took the bisexual rock chick wildness a step too far. All we get here is an average sane guy deciding to walk away from a drunken idiot.
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dmra
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Re: 2018-06-15 Not sheating

Post by dmra » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:41 am

Pierre had quite a lot of "character" in the first few strips he appeared in but it's true that he's only had around 30 appearances in total so there hasn't been a chance to build on that. His problem isn't really a lack of character so much as his doesn't seem to fit easily into either the fashion world or international jewellery thief elements of the comic so he basically got sidelined.

If he'd been been a MA3 character I suspect he'd have fitted in quite nicely (probably with toned down looks) at least along the level of an Eric or Traci and would have been quite liked.

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Re: 2018-06-15 Not sheating

Post by Gotoh » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:27 pm

dmra wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:41 am
Pierre's problem isn't really a lack of character so much as his doesn't seem to fit easily into either the fashion world or international jewellery thief elements of the comic so he basically got sidelined.
I hardly see why that'd be an issue. Lavali and Alex don't exactly fit in with fashion models or jewel thieves either, but no one questions why either of them are part of the comic.

Pierre's normal, or as close to "normal" as anyone involved in the series gets. That neither makes him boring (as some have said), or means he doesn't fit in. Má3 had Allie, who used to put up with Sonya's constant outburts and denials. And in EC, Ace and Brooke were the most sensible characters of their series too.

I'd say that's a good thing. When a story involves a quirky ensemble (or crazy people), it helps to have at least one or two with their heads on straight to balance things out. Pierre basically served that function for Sandra, 'cuz Lord knows she needs it.

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Re: 2018-06-15 Not sheating

Post by dmra » Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:46 pm

The problem with your last paragraph is that Pierre hasn't really featured in the comic for months - if not years - so we haven't seen him enough to get the sense of somebody balancing out Sandra. Which - going by the last few strips at least - he hasn't been doing a terribly good job of doing. But then again neither has anybody else really so you can't knock him for that.

And I disagree that about both Lavali and Alex fitting into the fashion world/jewellery thief arcs. It was much easier for them to do so than Pierre. Alex was the gaming nerd bought in to give Sandra advice and then somehow treated as a potentially body painting expert. While Lavali was involved with Sandra through the gaming stories and then dragged along on Sandra's adventures as her fish out of water "normal" friend.

And then both of them got caught up in the revenge plots against Sandra and Zoe by Eva and Eloise because they were naive enough to be easily manipulated.

As a fairly normal secure and reasonably savvy grown man with a steady job a thousand miles from modelling there really wasn't much scope for Pierre to do anything similar. Which is probably why Alex has been in about three times as many strips as him and Lavali four times as many.

Had the story stayed as it started with the focus on a more realistic modelling experience - with Sandra working her way up - he would have had a lot more chance to appear as the helpful and supportive boyfriend.

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Re: 2018-06-15 Not sheating

Post by Gotoh » Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:12 pm

dmra wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:46 pm
The problem with your last paragraph is that Pierre hasn't really featured in the comic for months - if not years - so we haven't seen him enough to get the sense of somebody balancing out Sandra.
I'm aware that he hasn't made an appearance in ages, which is why I said he "served" that purpose (past tense), rather than "serves" (present tense).
dmra wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:46 pm
Alex was the gaming nerd bought in to give Sandra advice and then somehow treated as a potentially body painting expert. While Lavali was involved with Sandra through the gaming stories and then dragged along on Sandra's adventures as her fish out of water "normal" friend.
Which means they don't fit in with that crowd, does it not? Just as there's a distinct difference between the way Alex behaves around a fellow gamer, as opposed to when he's with Sandra. When he's in his own element he exudes confidence, but when he's around Sandra, he shifts between being starstruck one moment to a nervous wreck the next.
dmra wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:46 pm
And then both of them got caught up in the revenge plots against Sandra and Zoe by Eva and Eloise
Plot relevance is a different subject from whether they fit in with models and jewel thieves.

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Re: 2018-06-15 Not sheating

Post by dmra » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:27 am

Alex and Lavali fit into those arcs because it served a comic purpose for them to be used in them. But unlike Maire who Zoe saw potential in neither of them seem to be the kind to fit into it as part of their regular lives and neither of them seem to have any interest in it. But that's where the humour of their involvement comes in.

Alex isn't a male model he's an inexperienced gaming geek with some artistic skills so there's jokes to be had from him being love struck and puppy eyed around Sandra while he helps her. Lavali is the friend who finds herself dragged along in Sandra's wake being kind heartedly ineffectual and insecure around beautiful people and getting into all kind of wacky adventures she'd rather not have.

In contrast Pierre probably could have given Sandra baking lessons but other than that he doesn't have any skills we know about that might come in handy for Sandra's career. Equally Pierre is too secure and self aware to allow himself to be dragged off to a desert island and let himself get dehydrated and hallucinate goddesses. So it wouldn't really be that funny to show him interacting in Sandra's world Just as it probably wouldn't be funny to show Cammi baking croissants.

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Re: 2018-06-15 Not sheating

Post by Cortez » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:01 am

dmra wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:49 am
Possibly being heretical here but I'd take issue with the notion that Pierre has no "character".
He's a pretty Flat character and not as interesting as the other characters in the strip. There is not much to him besides being a hot baker.

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Re: 2018-06-15 Not sheating

Post by Gotoh » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:18 am

dmra wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:27 am
In contrast Pierre probably could have given Sandra baking lessons but other than that he doesn't have any skills we know about that might come in handy for Sandra's career.
Pierre doesn't need to have skills relating to Sandra's career because she already has Domenico's agency to take care of that for her.
dmra wrote: Equally Pierre is too secure and self aware to allow himself to be dragged off
Which is where the importance of stability coms in. He's there when she needs to vent, or offer a shoulder to lean on (figuratively speaking). Much like Ace did for Brooke.

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Re: 2018-06-15 Not sheating

Post by dmra » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:55 am

Cortez wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:01 am
dmra wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:49 am
Possibly being heretical here but I'd take issue with the notion that Pierre has no "character".
He's a pretty Flat character and not as interesting as the other characters in the strip. There is not much to him besides being a hot baker.
I'd suggest you go back and read the first set of strips he appeared in. The ones where he and Sandra first met and then started dating. If that's your idea of a "flat character" you're setting the bar pretty high. And certainly Sandra wouldn't seem to agree with you.

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AlexDenton
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Re: 2018-06-15 Not sheating

Post by AlexDenton » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:02 am

Spidrift wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:47 pm
Though perhaps his relationship with bread is truly mystical? French people and food...
Do not diss our relationship with food. Our bread is the finest there is !
XD
But seriously though, it's good :D
Khazuki wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:48 am
Sandra's become phenomenally stupid, and the alcohol's not helping her. However, as a guy, I can't imagine myself being jealous of my gf hooking up with women.
That she has started this whole mess and how she did it bothers me. It feels unnecessary and forced. But if it closes the Eloise chapter I'm all for it. I still have to go back every time she appears to remember who she is and why she is relevant to anything.
And I can sort of understand why you wouldn't be jealous. If she cheats on you with a guy, he does or has something that you can't provide. If it's an other woman, at least you know and you can't really compete.
It's still cheating though.
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Cortez
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Re: 2018-06-15 Not sheating

Post by Cortez » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:05 am

dmra wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:55 am
I'd suggest you go back and read the first set of strips he appeared in.
Way ahead of you slick and he's as flat as i remember. Even to this day we don't know much about him besides being a hot baker.

And that link proved jack and squat. Sandra calling him a dreamboat doesn't disprove that he's a flat character. If anything, it reinforces it. Just shows how being a hot guy is all he has going for him.
Last edited by Cortez on Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

dmra
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Re: 2018-06-15 Not sheating

Post by dmra » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:16 am

Well as they say one man's meat and all that. You think he's dull and flat I think he showed potential but simply wasn't used much because the comic took a different turn from the earlier chapters. Each to their own and since it's only opinion there's no right and wrong.

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