2017-09-15 Cool, big sisterly thing

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KittyHat
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Re: 2017-09-15 Cool, big sisterly thing

Post by KittyHat » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:02 am

Well, to be honest, I assumed Sandra mentioned Marie, especially since we only caught the end of her explanation, and she did mention Marie getting the audition. Yes, she also said "oops," but I didn't make the connection. I see it now, though.

Okay then, Zoé was being only marginally stupid this time. I mean, she's still responding to everything by raging blindly rather than using her brain even an itty bitty teensy weensy bit, but at least I can throw her a bone and say she didn't have all of the information. Not that she bothered to try asking probing questions to obtain it, but ... this is Zoé, and I think we've already established that the concept of "probing question" is utterly foreign to her.

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brasca
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Re: 2017-09-15 Cool, big sisterly thing

Post by brasca » Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:45 am

Gotoh wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:50 pm
Cortez wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:29 am
Are you unfamiliar with frustration or something? Zoe only reacts with frustration when it comes to Sandra and the why should be obvious if you keep up with this strip.
There's a difference between "frustration" and "anger management" issues. Frustrated people don't have doors kicked down when they have a key, for example.
Cortez wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:29 am
The "why" in this strip is particularly obviously, if not straight up blatant. She's mad, because Sandra made it sound like she sabotaged her own audition. An audition Zoe probably set up herself.
Did you even look at what I typed? I wasn't just talking about this particular instance. Zoé's reaction to damn near everything is anger, regardless whether she's dealing with Sandra, Domenico, or Marie. She blows her stack at Cammi too, but Cammi is the only one who doesn't seem to care.

So I ask again: "why is anger Zoé's reaction to almost everything that happens?" And when does she actually manage things in reasonable fashion?
Who knows, but like Domenico's flakiness it just works.

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Spidrift
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Re: 2017-09-15 Cool, big sisterly thing

Post by Spidrift » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:38 am

And indeed, Zoé’s hair-trigger temper might be interpreted as a reaction to Domenico’s flakiness. Stress does that to people.
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Spidrift
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Eisu
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Re: 2017-09-15 Cool, big sisterly thing

Post by Eisu » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:59 am

KittyHat wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:02 am
Not that she bothered to try asking probing questions to obtain it, but ... this is Zoé, and I think we've already established that the concept of "probing question" is utterly foreign to her.
This is not a rebuttal or whatever, but I'm curious what question Zoe should be asking Sandra... I mean, with Marie, maybe she should've asked who scouted her but as mentioned in previous thread, things escalated in that event that she just got too frustrated to ask (it's not like she didn't try to ask (http://www.sandraontherocks.com/strips- ... wn-the-sun), but Marie deflected the question, then got distracted with the cover then Sandra interfered and had a fight with Zoe and then Zoe just got too frustrated over the whole thing and just decided to storm off which, is a pretty normal human reaction from what I understand of humans... also, Cammi's antics at the end of that didn't help any), but in this one, what would she ask?

I mean, let's put ourself in Zoe's shoes. To her, right now, Sandra failed her audition that she set up and Sandra told her why she failed (threatening to set plants on fire) pretty much, but to Zoe, before Marie was mentioned, whoever got the audition was not someone Zoe nor Sandra would know. To her, at that time, it was just another model who was there who she assumed did a better job than Sandra. Now, knowing Marie was there as Sandra accidentally mentioned her, what other question would she ask? Why was Marie there? Zoe can just assume that Marie was there thanks to the agent that scouted her... would Zoe ask Sandra "Who is Marie's agent?" Sandra wouldn't know and Zoe knows that Sandra wouldn't know and even if she asked, she really wouldn't get anything out of it anyway since Sandra doesn't know anything...

So, I'm really curious what kind of probing question should Zoe be asking? (Again, I'm not being defensive about Zoe or anything, I'm just really curious about your mindset here)

Gotoh
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Re: 2017-09-15 Cool, big sisterly thing

Post by Gotoh » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:50 pm

Eisu wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:59 am
This is not a rebuttal or whatever, but I'm curious what question Zoe should be asking Sandra...
Off the top of my head: "What was Marie doing there?"

Marie shouldn't be auditioning anywhere yet, unless Zoé arranges for it. Even if Sandra doesn't know, it doesn't mean Zoé stil couldn't have found out, 'cuz a professional would've been on the phone with the Studio to find out how that other girl got the spot, instead of the one she sent to the audition.
Eisu wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:59 am
"Who is Marie's agent?" Sandra wouldn't know and Zoe knows that Sandra wouldn't know and even if she asked
Why would automatically assume Sandra wouldn't know, especially when she should be aware that Sandra and Marie are friends? Friends talk. It's entirely reasonable to assume that Marie may have told Sandra something about who she's working with.

The moment Sandra slipped and mentioned Marie was there, that's when Zoé should've been asking questions: "did you see anyone with her? or did she tell you anything about who she's been working with?"

And if Sandra didn't know, or if she decided to play dumb to try to cover for Marie, that's when Zoé should start dialing the studio to ask them who was Marie's agent. 'cuz there's no way in hell she just waltzed in off the street and got that part. Zoé doesn't need to have fourth wall knowledge, all she needs is to think like a rational adult, instead thinking she solve everything by throwing tantrums.

dmra
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Re: 2017-09-15 Cool, big sisterly thing

Post by dmra » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:32 pm

"a professional would've been on the phone with the Studio to find out how that other girl got the spot, instead of the one she sent to the audition."

I'm pretty sure that studio's are under no obligation to tell the agents of models who didn't get the job at an audition why they chose the one who did. Moreover they'd probably resent being routinely bombarded by calls like that. Besides Zoe's been told by Sandra that she made threats about setting fire to plants which even in the fashion industry is probably not the best way to get a job. so why should Zoe even wonder why somebody else got it?

Don't forget as well that, unlike us, Zoe has no knowledge of the plot against her. She offered to represent Marie when she got older. It probably just seems to her that Marie got impatient and went out and found somebody to act as her agent who isn't so cautious about waiting for her to finish school. While Zoe might be curious about who is managing Marie what would probably matter to Zoe isn't who Marie's agent is more the fact that Marie chose somebody who wasn't Zoe.

Gotoh
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Re: 2017-09-15 Cool, big sisterly thing

Post by Gotoh » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:16 pm

dmra wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:32 pm
I'm pretty sure that studio's are under no obligation to tell the agents of models who didn't get the job at an audition why they chose the one who did.
In Zoé's line of work, agents like her usually have contacts and people who owe them favors, and even if they can't call in a favor, they know how to pull strings. Case in point: like Eva's been doing.
drma wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 1974 8:45 pm
so why should Zoe even wonder why somebody else got it?
Because she knows who the "someone else" is and knows she shouldn't be auditioning yet.
drma wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 1974 8:45 pm
Don't forget as well that, unlike us, Zoe has no knowledge of the plot against her.
I've already said she doesn't need fourth wall knowledge, all she needs is a bit of rational thought.
drma wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 1974 8:45 pm
While Zoe might be curious about who is managing Marie what would probably matter to Zoe isn't who Marie's agent is more the fact that Marie chose somebody who wasn't Zoe.
Which means she isn't thinking, which, in turn, makes Eva's job easier.

dmra
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Re: 2017-09-15 Cool, big sisterly thing

Post by dmra » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:12 pm

"Because she knows who the "someone else" is and knows she shouldn't be auditioning yet."

Why shouldn't Marie be auditioning? She's clearly old enough and nobody has accused her of breach of contract.

Zoe might have wanted her to wait until she'd finished school before representing her but all's she's said so far is that Marie's career is likely to burn up quickly if not handled correctly. She didn't say that Marie couldn't work at all just that it would be unwise.

So as far as Zoe knows or has reason to think Marie is being stupid choosing to work now and for somebody else rather than waiting and working with her in couple of years.

"Which means she isn't thinking, which, in turn, makes Eva's job easier."

And what also makes Eva's plot easier it that, other than fashion being a cut throat business and Zoe and Eva clearly not being the best of friends, Zoe has no reason in the world to believe that Marie is the tool in anybody's plans and isn't paranoid enough to believe that every time somebody doesn't do what she suggests it's because they're part of a plot against her rather than just being impatient and wilful youngsters grabbing at the chance of fame now rather than waiting until they're 18.

Gotoh
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Re: 2017-09-15 Cool, big sisterly thing

Post by Gotoh » Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:16 pm

dmra wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:12 pm
Zoe has no reason in the world to believe that Marie is the tool in anybody's plans and isn't paranoid enough to believe that every time somebody doesn't do what she suggests it's because they're part of a plot against her
No one said anything about Zoé being paranoid, or that she's supposed to be clairvoyant. What we're saying is, she should at least be curious enough about how Marie is suddenly getting on magazine covers and landing auditions, to ask questions.

Instead, she continues to rage and either storm out of the room, or scare Sandra out of the room.

dmra
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Re: 2017-09-15 Cool, big sisterly thing

Post by dmra » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:06 pm

You're rather ignoring the argument that it doesn't matter to Zoe WHO is representing Marie. What matters to her is that Marie has chosen somebody else to represent her and rejected her advice to be patient and build a career after finishing her studies.

And even if she had asked and been told that it was Eva what good would that do her? If she went to Marie and said that Eva was only using her as a pawn in an attempt to get at her (Zoe) why should Marie believe her? So far Eva hasn't done anything wrong (that Marie knows about anyway) and has done her a lot of good in her career and her social life.

And perhaps she wouldn't get angry with Sandra if Sandra told her all the facts rather than admitting to doing something stupid and then compounding the error by suggesting she might have done it on purpose to help out a friend and rival. Even a saint might be excused a little bit of annoyance at a protege in those circumstances.

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Eisu
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Re: 2017-09-15 Cool, big sisterly thing

Post by Eisu » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:10 am

Welp, thank you dmra for helping out ^^

Especially the part about someone else representing Marie... there is absolutely NO reason for Zoe to care who's representing Marie because, I'm sure, there are TONS of modelling agents in PARIS... to Zoe right now, Marie just went with a different agency other than her, should she care about who's representing her? Not really, cos to her, whoever represents her is doing it wrong (by not building Marie up and giving her everything up front) and there a lot of agencies who would do that without it being a plot against Zoe... you keep on saying rational thinking but your version of rational thinking I think limits the fact that there are other agencies all over. In fact, I'd say Zoe's thinking rationally to think that Marie just went to another agency who scouted her. What's NOT rational thinking is thinking that everyone's against you and thinking that Marie's signing up with another agency is for a plot to take her down.

Now, I'm not saying Zoe's being smart and emotions do get the better of her, but I'm also saying that thinking she's incompetent only cos she doesn't ask the question you think she should be asking (especially when those questions would normally not cross her mind in the first place) just makes no sense...

Like the "Why is Marie there?" question... easy, some other agency got her the same audition that Zoe set up for Sandra... as shown before, it was a pretty open audition as there were other models as well... it's not like it was a private audition for Sandra only...

"Marie shouldn't be auditioning anywhere yet, unless Zoé arranges for it."

You're thinking Marie's signed up with Zoe but she's not... and to Zoe right now, someone else is representing Marie.

"Even if Sandra doesn't know, it doesn't mean Zoé stil couldn't have found out, 'cuz a professional would've been on the phone with the Studio to find out how that other girl got the spot, instead of the one she sent to the audition."

Clearly, you' don't know how auditions work because NO ONE does this... if someone you represented wasn't chosen, that's that... no agency, be it modelling or acting or whatever, would call back the studio and ask why the one you represent wasn't chosen and why the other girl was...

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