2017-08-08 The cutest speedo

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Gotoh
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Re: 2017-08-08 The cutest speedo

Post by Gotoh » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:09 am

KittyHat wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:44 am
"EXPLAIN."
"And YOU! You can follow my method, or convince yourself you can do it 'the easy way' and let this business spit you out like PASTE in SIX MONTHS, as you would RICHLY DESERVE! DECIDE."

Help me out. Which part is the part where she explained to Marie why this is a problem?
Agreed, 'cuz that was the closest Zoé came to explaining why Marie doing the cover was "wrong". But it's such a dramaticized statement that reads more like hyperbole.

Even if Zoé is speaking from past experience, what was true for her may not necessarily apply for everyone else. There is such a thing as instant stardom and prodigies; not that I'm saying either is the case for Marie.

Maelphaxerazz
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Re: 2017-08-08 The cutest speedo

Post by Maelphaxerazz » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:56 am

There isn't any reason to believe Zoe is right, either. Not for Marie, and frankly not for us. The "hoops" they had Sandra go through were silly challenges that mean nothing, and Sandra has already demonstrated that the best way to advance in this career is audacity, luck, and breaking all of Zoe's rules. Remember how she got her job as a model for a video game?

Modelling is about looking good and doing what the cameraman says as he pushes buttons. It is not rocket surgery. While the way Marie got on that cover was wrong, there is no reason to believe it will harm her modelling career, and the only thing Zoe knows about her cover photo is that she is on it without "working her way up", which is a silly reason to get worked up. It is almost as if Zoe is envious.

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Cortez
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Re: 2017-08-08 The cutest speedo

Post by Cortez » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:43 am

It's not "silly" at all. She's advising against taking the easy way, which is valid advice.

Not to mention that Marie isn't getting these opportunities because of her hard earned merits, but because Lukas slept with the guy in charge of the photoshoot. If that gets out, Marie will end up with a bad reputation.

And it's ridiculous to say Zoe is envious, she has nothing to be envious about and the story is clearly showing that Eva's way will end badly for Marie. You do realize this will end with Marie realizing Eva is a bad person, right?
Gotoh wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:09 am
Agreed, 'cuz that was the closest Zoé came to explaining why Marie doing the cover was "wrong".
Then you're not paying attention.
"I promised I would get you modeling opportunities ... AFTER you graduated! Are you too impatient to wait for them? Should I rescind that offer?"
"No one in modeling can just start at the top! There are steps you need to go through."

Learning patience is important, Zoe is certainly not wrong about that.

And she's not wrong about the second part either, no one that lasts at the top gets their quickly. Those that get their quickly usually fall from grace just as fast.

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Spidrift
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Re: 2017-08-08 The cutest speedo

Post by Spidrift » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:23 pm

I don't know for sure what works best in the real world, but in the setting of comic, the question is simple; whose advice would you trust - Zoé's or Eva's?
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Gotoh
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Re: 2017-08-08 The cutest speedo

Post by Gotoh » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:27 pm

Spidrift wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:23 pm
in the setting of comic, the question is simple; whose advice would you trust - Zoé's or Eva's?
We know that Eva's only using Marie, but Marie isn't aware of that yet. All she knows is, Eva seems to be supporting her by building her self-confidence and by giving her opportunities that could possibly launch her career as a fashion model.

And instead of being happy for her, or at least rationally explaining why it's too soon for her, Zoé flew off the handle and basically said it's her way, or the highway. Which has made Eva's job easier by letting her play the "good guy" who's in Marie's corner.

So if you were a hurting teenage girl in Marie's position, which one would you listen to? :-\

KittyHat
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Re: 2017-08-08 The cutest speedo

Post by KittyHat » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:15 pm

Cortez wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:43 am
Did you even read what you posted?
Did you? Still waiting for you to point out which part was the part where she explained why this is a problem. She made sweeping declarations as though they were self-evident truths, but I didn't see anything beyond that. Go on, show me what I missed. I made the work easy for you by listing all of her statements.

Edit: Incidentally, I just wanted to add that I'm not saying that Zoé is wrong. I'm saying that she failed to make her case. She failed at it so magnificently, in fact, that it was arguably worse than if she'd said nothing at all. Now you can say that it's all Marie's (and Sandra's) fault or whatever you wish to tell yourself about it, but the reality is that when you're a leader who can't inspire people to follow you, blaming them for not being inspired to respect your instructions and listen to you isn't going to make you any less of a failed leader. The reality is that Zoé occupies a leadership position here, and she's completely botching that role right now. She may know the business backwards and forwards, and she may be absolutely right about everything she's saying, but that doesn't amount to a hill of beans if she lacks the ability or the willingness to effectively communicate to her would-be underlings why they should follow her guidance rather than someone else's, especially when that "someone else" is doing a rather bang-up job of making her case.

Just to give an example of what she might have done to handle this more effectively, let's imagine that instead of just shouting hyperbole and threats, she'd said something like, "So you think you know everything and don't need to listen to me anymore, do you? You think you can just skip straight to the top without consequences? Well, let me tell you a little story about a model who tried to do just that ..." I mean, presumably if she's so knowledgeable and experienced in the business, and if it's even half as cutthroat as she's making it out to be, she should be able to recall at least one or two cautionary anecdotes, right?

Or if she can't, then maybe she doesn't know as much as she likes to pretend she knows! I mean, after all, as Maelphaxerazz pointed out, Sandra actually established her breakaway success by ignoring the rules, not by following them. Really, at this point, Zoé needs to make her case as much to us as to Marie and Sandra, at least as far as I am concerned.
Last edited by KittyHat on Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:22 am, edited 4 times in total.

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tityanya
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Re: 2017-08-08 The cutest speedo

Post by tityanya » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:08 pm

I'm pretty sure I've said it before, but goddammit I'm going to say it again: I really enjoy watching Eva play Marie like a fiddle. Of course, I do feel bad for Marie, but seeing Eva's tricks in action is like looking at a masterpiece. Or a car wreck. Can't look away.

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Don Alexander
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Re: 2017-08-08 The cutest speedo

Post by Don Alexander » Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:32 am

Concerning Zoé, everyone please remember she is stuck in a small string of black-and-white boxes and only appears once every few days. Anyone would have trouble bringing their point across in such circumstances.
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