2016-01-01 I can do this

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Odd Man Out
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Re: 2016-01-01 I can do this

Post by Odd Man Out »

Marie really needs to apologize and offer an introduction to Lavali, but she won't because of multiple misunderstandings. I'm looking forward to the actual lesbian's response when she learns of this debacle.

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Maechris
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Re: 2016-01-01 I can do this

Post by Maechris »

Don Alexander wrote:Don't worry, LarsenSan, that's probably just a delusion. :P

Not to mention that in my opinion, anyone who is "really" straight (whatever that means exactly) would have never landed in this situation in the first place.
ven wrote:Two straight girls in one panel? Never...
And as we all know, two straights don't make a gay. :P
That's a dangerous thought. Not only does this discourage experimentation, it also makes you appear to claim that you understand female sexuality! [Obviously not being 100% serious here but it IS a complicated matter for anyone, and I imagine what classifies one as straight or non-straight objectively and in their own perception can differ from males to females and from a particular male/female to another]

Also, two straights of different genders can make a gay, it just takes roughly 1.5-2 decades to diagnose if that's the case after their original attempt xP
Spidrift wrote:Gary is so obliging that, even though he really does seem to be fundamentally straight, he keeps getting nudged into homosexual situations. Jung appeared to be more or less asexual until Giz recently decided to tell the geek audience not to stereotype geeks so much.

But yeah, the idea that everyone in this setting is bi is an oversimplification.
Well, to be fair, Gary did express *some* interest in watching one person blow another person, but I don't think this really distracts from his straightness all that much.

Funnily enough, currently there's not enough information about Ramona's or Jung's sexuality to describe them, but all available evidence also points to hetero, and Angel seems to be androsexual primarily, which may mean they're 'gay' when in their male state of mind and 'straight' when in the female one.

... All of a sudden, we have an increase from 2-3 'fundamentally' straight people (Gary, Ruby, maybe Sandra) to potentially 5-7 (Gary, Ruby, Marie, potentially Jung and Ramona, arguably Sandra, as-far-as-we-know arguably female Angel).

... It's like they're reproducing somehow... :)) =))




In either case, indeed there's little Marie can do from this point that won't result in Ingrid being anything but hurt or disappointed. If Marie somehow forces herself to go through with the act, she'll likely have quite the emotional turmoil herself, and I can't see Ingrid being happy with her sexual exploration. If Marie stops, Ingrid has to contend with either a 'certified' lesbian pushing her away at the last moment (not good for self-confidence I presume), has to contend with a girl thinking she might be attracted to women, but deciding she isn't when seeing Ingrid's body (a little confusing and probably not good for self-confidence), or with being completely fooled (not good for her opinion of the locals...)

Because it's not like they could sit down and seriously discuss this, right? RIGHT?!

Ps.
given the recent demon/chaos god theories

One has to wonder whether Ingrid is even human given she is seducing the *sole remaining heterosexual female virgin-apparent in the region.
Last edited by Maechris on Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
More often than not people fail to see the entirety of the issue, and focus on a single facet of it. Ask yourself what makes you right before you set fire on other people for being wrong. // "Chemical reactions between the kawaii and uguu hormones.Within the Desu Gland. This is near to the upper Moe muscle."

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Spidrift
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Re: 2016-01-01 I can do this

Post by Spidrift »

Maechris wrote:Well, to be fair, Gary did express *some* interest in watching one person blow another person, but I don't think this really distracts from his straightness all that much.
Gary has been plausibly diagnosed as ... is "bi-aesthetic" a word?

Honestly, I don't think that liking the sight of sexually attractive members of both sexes makes anyone bi. Otherwise, well, I get to reclassify as bisexual, because I like reading this comic and think that Michelangelo's "David" is a great work of art. But that's not a useful way to categorise me. Okay, Gary maybe gets off a little on watching gay male sex (which I don't), but it's still just aesthetics.

He did accept a blowjob from Matt without an actual nervous breakdown, which technically raises his Kinsey number above zero, but that was a strange evening.

(Presumably, "Sometimes looks at images of their own gender, and thinks 'that's sort of nice ... but no, I can't really be bothered to experiment'" would only be, what, Kinsey 0.1?)
Maechris wrote:Funnily enough, currently there's not enough information about Ramona's or Jung's sexuality to describe them, but all available evidence also points to hetero, and Angel seems to be androsexual primarily, which may mean they're 'gay' when in their male state of mind and 'straight' when in the female one.
Best evidence is that Ramona and Jung have had one partner each (and Jung likes girl bands and Ramona likes yaoi), which makes them 100% straight to date. Which makes "straight" a safer assumption for them than "well, they might swing the other way one day". Even in the Ma3 universe, it's probably impolite to assume the latter. That's the thing with people; we just have to work with statistically insignificant sample sizes sometimes.

I'm not sure if and when the creators have resolved Angel's full set of tastes. I agree that, going by the last time we saw her (in the pet shop), she seems to be consistently androsexual across presentations - but Zii, who seems to have got to know her fairly well back when they were friends, allegedly thought that she was entirely into girls. That may have been early installment weirdness (or Zii looking for excuses), of course.
Maechris wrote:... All of a sudden, we have an increase from 2-3 'fundamentally' straight people (Gary, Ruby, maybe Sandra) to potentially 5-7 (Gary, Ruby, Marie, potentially Jung and Ramona, arguably Sandra, as-far-as-we-know arguably female Angel).
Evidence from the bonus PDF is that, essentially, sober-Sandra is straight, drunk-Sandra is bisexual. Or maybe "omnivorous" would be the word.
Maechris wrote:... It's like they're reproducing somehow...
I see what you did there.
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True_Avery
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Re: 2016-01-01 I can do this

Post by True_Avery »

Personally I welcome our straight overlords. Never actually been a big fan of fiction where most of the world is depicted as queer - which is kind of an annoying trend in Yuri. I like me some yuri and queer stories, but when you have no male cast at all and your entire female cast is gay? Ends up being a bit too much for me. Not that I don't agree with these stories existing, we deserve our own fiction, I just prefer fiction where we're unique little snowflakes in a straight world - its a dash of reality and not overly indulgent to me.

See, car racing with no straights and only turns would get annoying to watch. You need those straightaways to make the corners more exciting!

... And then you veer off when you hit a wet patch in a hard bend and crash into a wall after a sick double flip. This is what is currently happening to Marie.

A really wet, sick triple flip into a naked woman shaped wall.
Maechris wrote:One has to wonder whether Ingrid is even human given she is seducing the *sole remaining heterosexual female virgin-apparent in the region.
Since we've surmised that Europe belongs to the Tyranids, we have to assume Ingrid is an assimilated Tyranid sleeper agent that is looking to Marie to consume her biomass. Its the only logical conclusion.
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Maechris
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Re: 2016-01-01 I can do this

Post by Maechris »

Spidrift wrote: 1) Gary has been plausibly diagnosed as ... is "bi-aesthetic" a word?

Honestly, I don't think that liking the sight of sexually attractive members of both sexes makes anyone bi. Otherwise, well, I get to reclassify as bisexual, because I like reading this comic and think that Michelangelo's "David" is a great work of art. But that's not a useful way to categorise me. Okay, Gary maybe gets off a little on watching gay male sex (which I don't), but it's still just aesthetics.

He did accept a blowjob from Matt without an actual nervous breakdown, which technically raises his Kinsey number above zero, but that was a strange evening.

2) (Presumably, "Sometimes looks at images of their own gender, and thinks 'that's sort of nice ... but no, I can't really be bothered to experiment'" would only be, what, Kinsey 0.1?)
Maechris wrote:Funnily enough, currently there's not enough information about Ramona's or Jung's sexuality to describe them, but all available evidence also points to hetero, and Angel seems to be androsexual primarily, which may mean they're 'gay' when in their male state of mind and 'straight' when in the female one.
3) Best evidence is that Ramona and Jung have had one partner each (and Jung likes girl bands and Ramona likes yaoi), which makes them 100% straight to date. Which makes "straight" a safer assumption for them than "well, they might swing the other way one day". Even in the Ma3 universe, it's probably impolite to assume the latter. That's the thing with people; we just have to work with statistically insignificant sample sizes sometimes.

I'm not sure if and when the creators have resolved Angel's full set of tastes. I agree that, going by the last time we saw her (in the pet shop), she seems to be consistently androsexual across presentations - but Zii, who seems to have got to know her fairly well back when they were friends, allegedly thought that she was entirely into girls. That may have been early installment weirdness (or Zii looking for excuses), of course.
1) There's probably no such word but plenty of weird quirks that essentially amount to that. After all, what excites people visually or rouses their imagination to the point of arousal isn't always 100% of the time what they actually want to do in bed. Some people are just extremely after certain traits (those whom are better described as gyno/androsexual than they are as straight or homosexual), and never meet enough 'feminine men' or 'masculine women' (or fully transgender/pre-op transsexual, as certain conservative types would insist) - type people to shake their fundamental belief they're straigh (or gay, as the case may be).

Other people are excited by display of traits that are generally found sexually attractive even if they're of the gender they're not normally attracted to. I don't know these people in person (passing over-the-net acquainance is the best description), but I did 'run into' a declared lesbian who could be aroused by well-endowed physically fit men visually (up to and including male homosexual porn), but claimed she can't even imagine sleeping with one, as well as a woman who protested against even attempting to sleep with another woman but found herself sexually aroused by sufficient 'display' of large breasts on other women.

Gary may be an instance of one of such cases, I guess. He may also be bi(sexual/curious), but with sufficiently ingrained self-identification and base 'straight values' to feel uncomfortable with attempting the other end of the spectrum.

2) I'm always a bit guilty about using the Kinsey's scale to describe a mental attitude (because it's about sexual encounters rather than attitude!) but the numerical values vs. sexual tastes does seem to be a decent enough way out (MY RECENT CALCULATIONS SAY I AM MENTALLY A 1.25, or so), but for all intents and purposes if you can't even think you may enjoy sleeping with your own gender after years of life, you're likely not bisexual.


3) I forgot that line about Zii thinking Angel was into girls, but it might've come from Angel already assuming her gender-fluidness and Zii mistaking it for being extremely 'butch' at first, I guess? Or it's a red herring.
I guess I am corrupted enough to immediately assume characters shown are 'bisexual, bicurious, or will later on become some variant of bi in the future'. The only exceptions to the rule before were 'protagonists or gay', until recently, after all! :D
True_Avery wrote:Personally I welcome our straight overlords. Never actually been a big fan of fiction where most of the world is depicted as queer - which is kind of an annoying trend in Yuri. I like me some yuri and queer stories, but when you have no male cast at all and your entire female cast is gay? Ends up being a bit too much for me. Not that I don't agree with these stories existing, we deserve our own fiction, I just prefer fiction where we're unique little snowflakes in a straight world - its a dash of reality and not overly indulgent to me.

See, car racing with no straights and only turns would get annoying to watch. You need those straightaways to make the corners more exciting!

... And then you veer off when you hit a wet patch in a hard bend and crash into a wall after a sick double flip. This is what is currently happening to Marie.
'Perfecting' a world or setting to the point that it only includes a single sex/gender (or only includes one traditional sex and all manners of queer people with often overexaggerated traits for purpose of sexualization) never stood well with me. It's dodging the issue of respecting one another and learning to find some common ground. Doing such a thing in fiction is more or less escapism or oversimplification (sometimes meant to produce situations where anyone could bang anyone else). When a fictional character, place, or setting has specific strong views on sexuality or gender balance/imbalance one way or the other, the thing that could sell or break the thing in question for me is whether the alternatives to that particular situation are even mentioned, and how these views against 'conflicting/alternative' sexual identifications and issues from the character/society/setting are presented to the reader. (This extends to all of 'homosexual only', 'heterosexual only', and 'mentalities and bodytypes I want to see romancing/banging each other only' types of settings and situations)

Of course, sometimes someone doesn't want to deal with those issues when creating something, but then a question comes to mind 'how come all of these people have gathered in one place, know one another and reached this point?", because the statistics are so unlikely they break the suspension of disbelief...

But that's way too weird of a rant for these forums xP
More often than not people fail to see the entirety of the issue, and focus on a single facet of it. Ask yourself what makes you right before you set fire on other people for being wrong. // "Chemical reactions between the kawaii and uguu hormones.Within the Desu Gland. This is near to the upper Moe muscle."

Gion
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Re: 2016-01-01 I can do this

Post by Gion »

Spidrift wrote:He did accept a blowjob from Matt without an actual nervous breakdown, which technically raises his Kinsey number above zero, but that was a strange evening.

(Presumably, "Sometimes looks at images of their own gender, and thinks 'that's sort of nice ... but no, I can't really be bothered to experiment'" would only be, what, Kinsey 0.1?)
If you recall, Kiney's findings were that practically no one is a 0 or a 6. In other words, if a person thinks they're totally straight, they're most likely wrong.

What you describe is firmly within the range of a Kinsey 1. The Kinsey scale is about desire and arousal, not experiences. People who have never had sex can still be straight or gay. Erego, people who have only had heterosexual intercourse can still be attracted to their own gender and be bisexual.

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Spidrift
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Re: 2016-01-01 I can do this

Post by Spidrift »

The descriptions I've seen of the Kinsey Scale referred to experiences, not desires. But they may have been misleading.

Edit: The Wikipedia article implies it's not just about experience. But it also looks like Kinsey didn't deny that purely-gay or purely-straight people exist; he just said that "Males do not represent two discrete populations, heterosexual and homosexual." It's a continuum, but Kinsey zero and Kinsey six are real things.
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True_Avery
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Re: 2016-01-01 I can do this

Post by True_Avery »

Isn't the kinsey scale considered to be outdated and replaced? The concept is fine, but he was like the second draft. We've done some editing since then.
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Spidrift
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Re: 2016-01-01 I can do this

Post by Spidrift »

Probably. It's just a widely known and succinct numeric shorthand, not something to take too seriously.
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Maechris
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Re: 2016-01-01 I can do this

Post by Maechris »

Honestly, at the pace we're going at we're more likely to have confirmed repeated contacts with an alien civilization before we have a more-or-less perfect method of calling and measuring sexuality that everyone is fine with.
More often than not people fail to see the entirety of the issue, and focus on a single facet of it. Ask yourself what makes you right before you set fire on other people for being wrong. // "Chemical reactions between the kawaii and uguu hormones.Within the Desu Gland. This is near to the upper Moe muscle."

JoybuzzerX
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Re: 2016-01-01 I can do this

Post by JoybuzzerX »

Spidrift wrote:Evidence from the bonus PDF is that, essentially, sober-Sandra is straight, drunk-Sandra is bisexual. Or maybe "omnivorous" would be the word.
Gropey with boundry issues. :p

I'm curious with Didi. When she was with Sandra she was "Nuuuu" with Kiley, has she done anything with her other than Kiley getting her off? Dates yes, but Didi from what I've read so far, hasn't seemed to have given in return.

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Spidrift
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Re: 2016-01-01 I can do this

Post by Spidrift »

No boundary issues. No boundaries (other than actual emotional connection), hence no issues.

And given that Kiley is only retaining some semblance of sanity by telling herself that this is a therapeutic relationship, she's probably fairly desperate for DiDi not to give anything back. The moment she becomes unable to depersonalize what she's doing with DiDi is the moment when she screams hopelessly into the void.
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-- Motto of Hogshead Publishing of fond memory, and wise words to set your Foes List by.
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Error of Logic
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Re: 2016-01-01 I can do this

Post by Error of Logic »

That won't be what she screams into once Chastel starts reciprocating... Kiley will be stuck in Marshmellow Hell once that starts. @_@

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