2015-06-12 I'm not that drunk, y'know

[Artemisia]

I haven't wanted to say this, Eisu...but I like the new style. I didn't really follow SotR at first because your style was kind of painful to my eyes...but it's gotten less so for me and I've really liked it.

[Don Alexander]

Was looking back into some archives.....

there's a serious epidemic of giraffe-neck virus in this strip. The character models have been sliding away.

Ya know, now that you mention it...

It looks fitting for Eva, because she's this hugely tall model anyway, but looks REALLY weird on Lavali and Sandra. This will bug me a lot from now on...

[Artemisia]

Don, Eisu mentioned that he's trying out a new art style...

[wiseguy]

did not put too much attention to that until now (I just went "it feels weird" )

it looks unnatural, at least way was done for Lavali and Sandra this strip where it actually looks even longer than Eva's on previous strips. maybe cut it to halfway? with a lil thickness of neck? and it feels like the neck is different from 3rd to 4th panel(I use feels, because in 4th panel the neck is covered by her hair) and also from 1st to 2nd panel

[Fen]

Age of consent and exposure are dofferent, though. For one, there's no consent given. While it is legal to engage in consensual sexual behaviour with a minor (so long as you are not in a position of authority or promising gooda in return), *exposing* yourself to someone under 18 falls under 'sexual deviance' laws (not sure what they're called in English). Had alex invited her into the room, it would be a completely different story.

This development doesn't sit well with me.

[Spidrift]

That sounds like a very local concept. Every country has their own funny little rules about "indecent behaviour" or whatever, but that one may not translate directly to American, British, or French law. Frankly, the idea that you could have sex with a 17-year-old, but not let them see you naked, sounds frikkin' bizarre.

And it's not like Sandra set out to seduce or corrupt a minor. She stumbled drunkenly into the wrong bedroom, which happened to be occupied by a guy who's old enough to know what a topless woman looks like. Very embarrassing all round, but strictly between the parties involved and not likely to cause anyone permanent damage.

[wiseguy]

Age of consent and exposure are dofferent, though. For one, there's no consent given. While it is legal to engage in consensual sexual behaviour with a minor (so long as you are not in a position of authority or promising gooda in return), *exposing* yourself to someone under 18 falls under 'sexual deviance' laws (not sure what they're called in English). Had alex invited her into the room, it would be a completely different story.

This development doesn't sit well with me.

actually exposing oneself is a sexual deviance PERIOD ................... if person exposing oneself to, falls under the age of consent, the punishment might increase but it was already a sexual deviance

and even thought a lot of nations have under 18 age of consent(some as young as 12 or 13), doing sex videos or photographs of people under 18 is illegal in almost all nations (Naturists pictures and videos is something different altogether)

[JoybuzzerX]

Was looking back into some archives.....

there's a serious epidemic of giraffe-neck virus in this strip. The character models have been sliding away.

Ya know, now that you mention it...

It looks fitting for Eva, because she's this hugely tall model anyway, but looks REALLY weird on Lavali and Sandra. This will bug me a lot from now on...

So it wasn't just me who noticed it. Had me going "What's up with the extra long necks?" o.O Still like the art, but it's different from before and when you're used to an artist's style and they change it up it makes it look weird.

[Fen]

That sounds like a very local concept. Every country has their own funny little rules about "indecent behaviour" or whatever, but that one may not translate directly to American, British, or French law. Frankly, the idea that you could have sex with a 17-year-old, but not let them see you naked, sounds frikkin' bizarre.

And it's not like Sandra set out to seduce or corrupt a minor. She stumbled drunkenly into the wrong bedroom, which happened to be occupied by a guy who's old enough to know what a topless woman looks like. Very embarrassing all round, but strictly between the parties involved and not likely to cause anyone permanent damage.

They can see you naked if you have their delightful consent. But if they don't ask you to remove your shirt(or are in a situation where that might be appropriate), and you take it off, it's a misdemeanor.

French law:

Sexual exhibition is punishable by 1 year imprisonment and 100,000 francs when committed against any minor under 18 years old.

And I'm not sure whether this would qualify.

Conviction of corruption of a minor is punishable by 5 years imprisonment and 500,000 francs

Oddly enough, I can't seem to find anything about sexual exhibition over 18.

And of course, if you consider rubbing your naked body against an unconscious person sexual assault (as you should, really)

Punishment for sexual assault other than rape is 5 years and 500,000 francs when committed on a victim aged 15-18 years old.

source

[wiseguy]

you have to define EXACTLY sexual exhibition(at least in French law), is "being naked" at any place sexual exhibition? or it has to be the person in a public place not designed for topless or nudism the point of being in sexual exhibition? as far as I know, there are places that exposing breasts is not illegal, BTW, just exposing breasts is considered sexual exhibition, did Sandra already do it in the Bakery?

and the last law does not say anything about adults? or they are punishable but in less years and money?

[Eisu]

did not put too much attention to that until now (I just went "it feels weird" )

it looks unnatural, at least way was done for Lavali and Sandra this strip where it actually looks even longer than Eva's on previous strips. maybe cut it to halfway? with a lil thickness of neck? and it feels like the neck is different from 3rd to 4th panel(I use feels, because in 4th panel the neck is covered by her hair) and also from 1st to 2nd panel

Whoah! You're telling me how to draw?!? Really?!? I just said I'm having more fun with my new style and now you're actually telling me how to draw my artwork...

Looks like I'm gonna have some REAL fun for Friday's update (I've already finished Tuesday's update before seeing this, so too late to have fun on that one)

Edit: (seriously speaking, when you draw all day and night, you want to find that style that you actually have FUN drawing and it doesn't become a chore, so, for real speak, if you guys are not okay with my new drawing style, I can't do anything about it cos I'm not gonna change it cos some people in turn do not favor it... I like to draw it this way and I'm happy with it, so yeah, sorry, no dice, not changing it to your preference and/or liking)

Edit Edit: Also, thanks for the support Arte ^^

Edit Edit Edit: Just wanna say that I'm actually okay with criticism especially constructive ones, but it's when you actually tell me what I should be doing with an art style, that's not really criticism cos it's a STYLE... it's up to the artist how he wants his/her style to be. You can't tell them "Oh, I think they're eyes should be farther apart" or something like that. Telling them what they should do with their style is NOT constructive criticism... it's literally telling them what to do when you have no real rights to.

[wiseguy]

was not meant as criticism per say of the style, but just saying that it looks unnatural (it does, basing on real life, just like the Simpsons look unnatural)but that is way you choosing, we readers have to accept it and at same time you have to know the way it looks from the base of real life...and I wrote a possible way to still have it but lessening the "weird look feel" some of us readers have, but you are the boss of what style and I am not suggesting you must go back

and than I simply pointed out that within the same strip, it seemed that Sandra went "giraffe neck" and not giraffe neck from frame to frame (no idea if it was Sandra lowering her head and optical illusion because of the hair or not), is one of my pet peeves, I don't mind whatever style an artist chooses, but I want it generally consistent and not constantly changing IN THE SAME strip, I personally hated in marvel comics when ONE storyline in one edition was drawn by 3 or 4 different artists, and all of them look completely different(I don't mind if edition 323 is drawn by one, and than edition 324 is done by someone else)

and what I wrote was not meant for you to feel attacked and even worse decide to have the necks 4 or 5 times longer than usual instead of 2 or 2.5 times longer in one strip

there is a difference between observations and people telling you "go back to old style, go back"

[Badman!]

That sounds like a very local concept. Every country has their own funny little rules about "indecent behaviour" or whatever, but that one may not translate directly to American, British, or French law. Frankly, the idea that you could have sex with a 17-year-old, but not let them see you naked, sounds frikkin' bizarre.

And it's not like Sandra set out to seduce or corrupt a minor. She stumbled drunkenly into the wrong bedroom, which happened to be occupied by a guy who's old enough to know what a topless woman looks like. Very embarrassing all round, but strictly between the parties involved and not likely to cause anyone permanent damage.

They can see you naked if you have their delightful consent. But if they don't ask you to remove your shirt(or are in a situation where that might be appropriate), and you take it off, it's a misdemeanor.

French law:

Sexual exhibition is punishable by 1 year imprisonment and 100,000 francs when committed against any minor under 18 years old.

And I'm not sure whether this would qualify.

Conviction of corruption of a minor is punishable by 5 years imprisonment and 500,000 francs

Oddly enough, I can't seem to find anything about sexual exhibition over 18.

And of course, if you consider rubbing your naked body against an unconscious person sexual assault (as you should, really)

Punishment for sexual assault other than rape is 5 years and 500,000 francs when committed on a victim aged 15-18 years old.

source

Please !

Being topless on a beach isn't a crime, chance are that being topless in a city will get you some insult or vey weird look at best, to a faire warning from a cop or an aggression if you walk into the wrong part of the city.

But tell the cops that an half naked woman entered in your bed, chances are they will laugh at you, espescially if your a guy...

[JoybuzzerX]

did not put too much attention to that until now (I just went "it feels weird" )

it looks unnatural, at least way was done for Lavali and Sandra this strip where it actually looks even longer than Eva's on previous strips. maybe cut it to halfway? with a lil thickness of neck? and it feels like the neck is different from 3rd to 4th panel(I use feels, because in 4th panel the neck is covered by her hair) and also from 1st to 2nd panel

Whoah! You're telling me how to draw?!? Really?!? I just said I'm having more fun with my new style and now you're actually telling me how to draw my artwork...

Looks like I'm gonna have some REAL fun for Friday's update (I've already finished Tuesday's update before seeing this, so too late to have fun on that one)

Edit: (seriously speaking, when you draw all day and night, you want to find that style that you actually have FUN drawing and it doesn't become a chore, so, for real speak, if you guys are not okay with my new drawing style, I can't do anything about it cos I'm not gonna change it cos some people in turn do not favor it... I like to draw it this way and I'm happy with it, so yeah, sorry, no dice, not changing it to your preference and/or liking)

Edit Edit: Also, thanks for the support Arte ^^

Edit Edit Edit: Just wanna say that I'm actually okay with criticism especially constructive ones, but it's when you actually tell me what I should be doing with an art style, that's not really criticism cos it's a STYLE... it's up to the artist how he wants his/her style to be. You can't tell them "Oh, I think they're eyes should be farther apart" or something like that. Telling them what they should do with their style is NOT constructive criticism... it's literally telling them what to do when you have no real rights to.

Wasn't them putting in the suggestions for what they think would make it look better, criticism, and constructive criticism in that they didn't just say "It sucks" but rather, what they thought could be done to make it enjoyable to them? How else would you suggest anyone criticize? Just say "Meh. Long necks suck."?

Should he compare you to other artists and say "Your work reminds me of Rob Liefeld?" I'm very eager to know exactly what constitutes constructive criticism.

[Eisu]

was not meant as criticism per say of the style, but just saying that it looks unnatural (it does, basing on real life, just like the Simpsons look unnatural)but that is way you choosing, we readers have to accept it and at same time you have to know the way it looks from the base of real life...and I wrote a possible way to still have it but lessening the "weird look feel" some of us readers have, but you are the boss of what style and I am not suggesting you must go back

and than I simply pointed out that within the same strip, it seemed that Sandra went "giraffe neck" and not giraffe neck from frame to frame (no idea if it was Sandra lowering her head and optical illusion because of the hair or not), is one of my pet peeves, I don't mind whatever style an artist chooses, but I want it generally consistent and not constantly changing IN THE SAME strip, I personally hated in marvel comics when ONE storyline in one edition was drawn by 3 or 4 different artists, and all of them look completely different(I don't mind if edition 323 is drawn by one, and than edition 324 is done by someone else)

and what I wrote was not meant for you to feel attacked and even worse decide to have the necks 4 or 5 times longer than usual instead of 2 or 2.5 times longer in one strip

there is a difference between observations and people telling you "go back to old style, go back"

Yes, I know there are inconsistencies in the way I drew the necks in this particular strip, but, like I said, I'm having fun with the style and thus I'm just drawing and stretching my drawings as far as I can (in different lengths in the same strip even ) cos it's getting too tiring for me to keep to a look where I no longer have any fun cos I can't, in a sense, go wild. I am a person who draws for work and for this comic and how my every day life constitutes of me drawing almost 12-15 hours every day with only 3-4 hour sleep and sometimes, not even at night, so now, as I've mentioned before, I've found a style of drawing where I can have more fun, fun equaling to me not feeling stressed as I draw and while your suggestion can be said as suggestions, I guess when you say it like, "maybe cut it to halfway? with a lil thickness of neck?" is almost, as it came out on my side, like you telling me how to draw my style, that's the part that I have a problem with. Now, if I hadn't mentioned that I'm trying out a new style, I understand the need to mention this, but I have mentioned before that I am trying out a new art style and am having fun with it so when I know you've read this part that I've mentioned earlier cos I know you're a regular forum reader, when you're suggesting to me to "cut it to halfway" and stuff, it comes out as, "You're not doing your art style right, here's a suggestion". And I know now you didn't mean it that way, but that's how it came out on my side initially.

Take for example, Arte. She has mentioned in the past that she was not a fan of my old art style and was the reason why she didn't read SOTR back then, but she never goes around to tell me, "Maybe you should change the way you draw the eyes", because she knows, back then, that was my style of drawing and thus decides not to tell me what to change. So, when you said to me to cut my neck to halfway cos it looked odd to you even though I've mentioned it's a style thing, it still came out as telling me what to do with my style of artwork. I mean, I know anatomically, my new style doesn't make any sense, but that's the thing about cartooning, we can exaggerate and extend or really do what we want with it cos it's a style and generally, what the artist prefers to do, really.

As for JoybuzzerX... constructive criticism for me is when you would criticize someone's artwork and suggesting fixes over errors in the artwork, NOT in the STYLE of the artwork. Let's go with Rob Liefeld, as you've mentioned his name. This guy clearly is going for a more or less realistic look for his character drawings but when his drawing has what clearly is an anatomical mistake like how the character is bent the wrong way (http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/10703 ... medium.gif), making the body have a broken look, then you can point it out saying this is not how a pose is and point out how to fix that. But I would never tell him that he drew the legs too long in comparison to the body size cos that's just his style. If he likes to draw long legs that is 3 times the size of the torso, even though I don't like it, I woudn't tell him to change that, cos that's a style thing. Like how some toons drew heads three times the size of a their whole body, it would look odd to me, but I wouldn't tell the person to change it cos it was odd to me, that is that person's style.

A look or a style and an error in a drawing are two different things. Constructive criticism is to help fix an error in a drawing. Telling a person to change the way they draw is not constructive criticism. Does the necks I drew look odd? Maybe to some and heck, maybe to most people. But does it mean it's an error? No, cos it's a style thing. How to tell the difference when something is an error and something is a style thing? That's up to your judgement I suppose. But in my case, I have mentioned that I'm trying out a new style, so clearly, it's a style thing. Like I said up there, if I've never mentioned it yet and Wiseguy decided to tell me that I had drawing errors, then yeah, I'll accept it, but I have mentioned it and so it comes out as him telling me how to draw my art style and not fixing an error.