2015-04-10 Sushi on naked men

[Spidrift]

There does seem to be a mat between the guy* and the sushi. Not enough to reassure me, even leaving latent gay panic aside, but it's there.


*Is he what our medieval ancestors would have called a trencherman?

[LegendaryKroc]

Does Sandra have some kind of attention span problem, or is she just easily distracted?

[Spidrift]

"or"?

[wi1dfire]

Question for the group, was the guest comic about Zii and DiDi searching for an authentic Japanese experience equally upsetting from a health services point of view?

"or"?

Agreed.

That depends on who you ask.

Not really, no. You can get specific permission from one person to use either set of pronouns, as that anime character gave permission to her coworkers, but that's an exception to the general rule. The difference is that they asked for and received permission. Also, as a point of order, looking at the Wikipedia entry, that character is not a drag queen at all, but someone transgender. There's a pretty big difference between the two: for examples look at Dillon vs. Senna. Dillon takes on characters, and while in character acts the part of being female, but his female alter egos are separate from his male identity. Senna actually lives the life of a female; she's not acting the part in the same way as Dillon because she has no alter-ego, she just is female in every way but biologically.

Look, outside of gay bars, burlesque shows, and other a places related to queer identity, different rules DO apply, but within those spheres, please take me at my word. It is impolite to call a drag queen in costume by a male pronoun without her specific permission. Even with permission, I probably still wouldn't while she was in costume, but that's just me. It may not upset everyone, but it will annoy quite a few.

['J']

i'm not disputing any of what you're saying re. drag-etiquette, but now that you mention it: i may be wrong, but i don't recall anyone switching pronouns for dillon when he puts on a dress in the strip. with the exception of yuki & sandra when they were each each under the assumption he was a she, of course.

Question for the group, was the guest comic about Zii and DiDi searching for an authentic Japanese experience equally upsetting from a health services point of view?

from a sanitation standpoint, i don't see much of a difference between the two.



it occurs to me though that being a human platter at one of those places must be an incredibly boring job. just lying there, listening in on a bunch of strangers' conversation while they eat.

but it does make me wonder: what about hot items; do they not serve miso with the sushi, or tea, or hot saki? or do you just have to lay there hoping nobody spills on you? is it a multi-course meal, where you can take a break or swap out with someone else between courses, or do you have to lie there for the whole hour or more? do you get to leave when the bus-boy/girl clears the table after the food's gone, or do you have to stay until the customers are ready to leave? do you get your own tip, or do you have to split one with the waiter? and does the boss give you time to take a shower between serving tables, or do you just wipe off with a damp towel & get back out there?

[Bambikles]

Question for the group, was the guest comic about Zii and DiDi searching for an authentic Japanese experience equally upsetting from a health services point of view?

I was wondering the same. Of course the whole "treating people as furniture" is morally "ew" to me.

['J']

i have no moral judgement on it, i just find it weird.

[Bambikles]

I'd say it's dehumanizing and so morally unhealthy. Anyway, this how I feel it.

['J']

meh, it's a business transaction; currency exchanged for goods and services. i see no meaningful difference between hiring someone to lie still on a table & hiring them to sing you a song or act out a play. in either case, they are being paid to preform an action for the purpose of entertaining an audience; the difference of what that action happens to be is purely superficial.

if that's the line of work someone chooses to go into, i see no reason to impose my personal sensibilities onto them.

[wi1dfire]

i'm not disputing any of what you're saying re. drag-etiquette, but now that you mention it: i may be wrong, but i don't recall anyone switching pronouns for dillon when he puts on a dress in the strip. with the exception of yuki & sandra when they were each each under the assumption he was a she, of course.

Yeah, Dillon isn't the best example of my main point. I think there's only four, maybe five comics where people switch genders based on what he's wearing. Maybe more, but I can only remember three offhand. 1 2/2 3.

The only reason I brought Dillon up at all was to illustrate the difference between someone transgender and someone acting out a character.

[Spidrift]

Question for the group, was the guest comic about Zii and DiDi searching for an authentic Japanese experience equally upsetting from a health services point of view?

It all just strikes me as a bit weird. The health issue isn't the first thing that strikes me, but it'd cross my mind sooner or later, in all cases. If I'm honest, though, furniture with a real working willy attached is going to freak my straight male sensibilities one small notch more than anatomically female live furniture.

[wiseguy]

if we think of the director and producers and makeup people of the church lady in SNL, they would have seen Dana Carvey acting, so for them it is he, but for audience seeing him "in character" they do not think Dana, they think Church lady and say She

for Gary "Diana" was Dillon playing a role, so he sees "him", while for the audience seeing the play, they do not think "Dillon acting" but a play where the character of Diana is a "she"

everything is about perspective

for a M2F transsexual (sees self as a woman)it is a whole different thing than for a crossdresser or an actor (just playing a role)

and adding to that is the usual assumptions of sex orientation(different than self gender identification) of M2F transsexuals, they could be interested in just guys or they could be interested in just girls or they could be open to both

from what Jenner has said............... sees self as a lesbian woman, as Jenner is attracted to woman but sees self as a woman in a man's body

[Gotoh]

That depends on who you ask.

Not really, no. You can get specific permission from one person to use either set of pronouns, as that anime character gave permission to her coworkers, but that's an exception to the general rule.

Which'd mean that it depends on who you ask.

The difference is that they asked for and received permission. Also, as a point of order, looking at the Wikipedia entry, that character is not a drag queen at all, but someone transgender.

Actually, they didn't. They referred to Aoi as a "she" half the time, and as a "he" the rest of the time - until he finally told them, himself, that he didn't mind either way, since he understood why it was awkward for them.

Also, unless the anime differs from the manga, they never said (or even implied) that Aoi was transgender. They said he was a male officer who'd "gone native", after years spent crossdressing for sting operations. It's even noted on the character sheet (2nd folder) at TV Tropes.

[wi1dfire]

Which'd mean that it depends on who you ask.

You are talking about specifics. I am talking about a general guideline, like the kind you might follow if you walked up to some stranger in a bar as depicted in the comic. As I said, a specific person can give permission to be called whatever they please, but that doesn't change the general guideline.

Also, unless the anime differs from the manga, they never said (or even implied) that Aoi was transgender. They said he was a male officer who'd "gone native", after years spent crossdressing for sting operations. It's even noted on the character sheet (2nd folder) at TV Tropes.

It says in the first sentence of that character profile that, "as the series progresses, it's implied that "Aoi-chan" is actually transgender and not simply a crossdresser."

[Gotoh]

It says in the first sentence of that character profile that, "as the series progresses, it's implied that "Aoi-chan" is actually transgender and not simply a crossdresser."

I have the entire series on DVD and I've watched it at least twice in the time that I've owned it. Not once do they ever say that Aoi is transgender, or even imply it.

If you look at the 'Unsettling Gender Reveal' entry for him, it even notes the distinction. They were still refering to him as a man as late as "Full Throttle" (the third and final season). So I'm not sure where they got the implication about him being transgender, unless it was in the manga version.