2013-11-23 Just get dumped

[John A Arkansawyer]

I liked seeing exactly the same scene from two different points of view, especially once it become clear to me these strips are set in separate universes. I assume the SotR version is from Sandra's viewpoint, and thus she looks a little sweeter there. In Ma3, the viewpoint is more omniscient narrator (or maybe Lita), so that Sandra is the spicier version. I assume SotR and Ma3 will end with the Sandra from the SotR universe somehow stranded in the Ma3 universe, where Gary is already married to the Ma3 universe Sandra. Hijinx ensue in a new daily strip.

Oh, just as no one seems to have mentioned it, this very likely implies that the voice calling Gary and Sandra in #762 is NOT Senna.

That hadn't occurred to me. Tatiana? No, too soon. Alex and/or Marie? Yes. Yes, I like that very much. They've got this free-lance assignment, see...

[Eisu]

And yet he said at one point that after updates went up, he waited with interest to see what I'd say about the comparison. Which frankly left me surprised (and flattered) at the time.

As he now seems to have changed his mind, though, I'm not loading Photoshop today.

I just mentioned that you didn't have to do it cos the way you worded the post almost seems like you're saying, "Time to do a comparison panel, but *sigh* this update is the same story, it's like I have to do the whole strip" as if it's a burden cos both strips have basically the same last three panels. So, I'm just saying, nobody's forcing you to do the comparison so if it feels like a burden then don't do it.

[Bambikles]

*muses about the whole lot development* How wonderful it is to assume what people think and feel

[Riposite]

I can certainly see that, but the one glaring problem with the idea is that it requires Gary to learn something. Call me cynical, but... Even today's outburst of assertiveness involved Gary discovering that when you're dealing with two women who are both asking for 100% of your time, you have to make a choice.

.

ah but in the past he's let the women make the choice for him..

[Spidrift]

But he couldn't do that here, because neither woman was backing down

Yes, Gary has just been bullied into being assertive.

[themacnut]

If I were an artist who had picked up a new comic, has a wildly different art style from another artist in the pool, and we were running a crossover where my panels were being lined up with that other artist's panel for comparison every single strip, I suspect I would get tired of it pretty damned fast.

In other words, it sounds to me like Eisu's getting frustrated with being compared to Giz every time he posts a comic, but is trying to be polite about it.

If you were an artist who put your work out in public, and especially on the InterWeb, your work is quite likely to be exposed to all kinds of comparisons and contrasts and critiques (especially if you get popular), not all of them favorable, and some of them downright nasty. Some viewers will harshly and nastily critique your work just because they can, because the relatively anonymous nature of the 'Net makes it unlikely you'd find them and punch them in the mouth over it. So, you'd need to develop a thick skin, a VERY thick skin, or else stop putting your work out in public.

Ask me how I know.

[Spidrift]

Uh, yeah, that too. (Never mind comics art, have you looked at TripAdvisor lately?) It's not actually an attitude I like, funnily enough - believe it or not, I aim for constructiveness - but it's unavoidable.

Photoshop will remain unloaded here this weekend, incidentally. Aside from the fact that the two panel 4s are actually so similar there wouldn't be much to say, I'm a bit busy.

[Qwertz]

Otherwise you risk becoming "that guy," and nobody wants to be "that guy."

Too late. Way too late.

Haha. As a friend of mine said to me yesterday: "It's OK as long as you laugh *with* them.."

[Don Alexander]

I'm pretty sure no matter what Spidrift does, he will not be That Guy.

@themacnut: How do you know?

[Riposite]

But he couldn't do that here, because neither woman was backing down

Yes, Gary has just been bullied into being assertive.

I wouldn't say bullied
if anything Sandra proves she's more aware of what other people want and feel as she picked up on the fact Gary has a life to get back too and in fact probably was not enjoying the date too much-after all if he's not paying a lot of attention to Senna after she whisked him to Europe (and as mentioned earlier she's all too aware of how Senna can whisk you off and then not care she's turned your life topsy turvy. She doesn't bully Gary so much as offer him another option then going along with Senna's plans, and he chooses to take it.
Probably the death knell for Senna was the trip to Belgium, after all being a successful comic artist is Gary's dream, so to dis the medium whether he realized it on a conscious level or not probably is what started his disenchantment with Senna. So I am going to chalk this up to growth, because Sandra wasn't tugging on him saying "go back to Montreal with me", all she did was give him the option to be able to go back and not be dependent on Senna-sure she'll want some more consultation out of it but she's not steam rolling Gary in to it. It might due the boy some good to be a secondary character in SoTR fir a while longer, and in fact I think he seems to have a good dynamic with Sandra. Of course everyone else's mileage may vary .

[Spidrift]

"Bullied" was hyperbole, obviously, but I'd stand by "pressured". As usual, Gary was caught between two women with conflicting ideas about what he should do. Usually, he lets them fight it out and goes with the flow; occasionally, he improvises some sort of surreal half-baked compromise ("Brussels!"); this time, he had to actually make a decision. But I'll only agree it's clear growth when he repeats the trick.

And growth with Gary is always two steps forward, one step back, at best (more often one step forward, one step back), so I wouldn't be surprised if, as tmn has suggested, Gary suddenly looks all regretful and distracted when he discovers that he's just missed a chance of a trip to Tokyo.

And yes, Sandra is more sensitive to Gary's responses and situation than Senna. Gosh. There is stuff bobbing odorously in the Seine that is more sensitive than Senna.

[Riposite]

[quote} And yes, Sandra is more sensitive to Gary's responses and situation than Senna. Gosh[/quote]

yes but people were rightfully pointing out Gary was ignoring his date in favor of Sandra; but when you think about it, this is his date who didn't know him well enough to understand what sort of artist he was or how looking down on comic book art might turn him off. In fact, I argue this is more of true growth for Gary because after spending time with Senna he realized that perhaps maybe just her having a great derriere was not enough to really be involved in her. Sure he did not pay attention to her and starting paying more attention to Sandra -but a) she encouraged it to a degree, and b) if you look back at 801 and some subsequent strips it is pretty obvious, even to Gary that Senna does not think highly of comic book art and geek culture, both things that are important to him.Post the Brussels trip he really seems to have opened up and been at ease with Sandra; just being himself and -admittedly you are 100% right its often two steps forward and one back (or even worse one step forward , two back and one to the side) with Gary, but I think the case can be made he realized that just outside of Senna's interest in him and her attractiveness, there was nothing there. This could be the first time that Gary finally took Kiley's advice and made a choice; choosing to be happy in his own skin over being Senna's accessory. Also notice he doesn't use the excuse of going back to Montreal or anything, its actually a rather firm it is not working out (well firm for Gary), where I think the older Gary would of avoided the confrontation and taken the offer with the excuse he needs to get back to work/pay rent/ feed Lyta.
Perhaps I'm more generous than some but this is growth, unless he promptly back slides.
I also don't think it is a coincidence he gets this growth in the presence of Sandra, someone who's had her own growth. Part of Gary's problems is a lot of the people in his life, don't want him to have a spine (Dillon, Zii, Yuki -though)-its not that they don't like him or care about him but they also like being able to count on him being a door mat. Until recently I think you could argue it was only Amber and she had some serious misapprehensions going on.
I think way back when Kiley did Gary a great disservice, he was starting to come out of his shell (his famous choosing to go to the anime convention with her) and then when they saw Yuki she ran out and also left him with kind of a guilt bomb in regards to Yuki. Now KIley did not owe Gary anything, it had been just a casual thing (or the start of one)-but I also think she may have missed how socially mal adjusted he is. I don't blame him for taking a step back; he stuck his head out and got smacked.
This time might be more lasting as there is no romantic angle. His choice wasn't a relationship with Senna or one with Sandra-it was go on being Senna's boy toy, go back to Montreal but leave things open with Senna (if she would of let him), or end things.
He's picking Sandra over Senna yes, but not in a romantic sense, but in a well in a doing things he enjoys sense, and he just realized whatever he had with Senna was pretty much nothing. Heck all the people commenting on how Gary was ignoring her and yes someone flies you to Paris you probably shouldn't run off and pay attention to someone you just met- well Gary realized that and he realized what it meant; he wasn't just into Senna. That's a couple big steps for Gary; 1) realizing that just because someone is interested in you is not a good reason to have a relationship (even if their butt is cute) 2)deciding to make his own decisions that effect his life as opposed to someone else 3) deciding/discovering that just being Gary is fine (or this might count as a rediscover) as long as he is comfortable in his own skin he comes off better -Sandra seems to be good for him developing a sense of assertiveness

the only thing that could really ruin this would be if Gary assumes or tries to start something romantic with Sandra -if he believes that was on the table and it influenced his decision , then i would have to admit a lot of this growth would be nullified-or rather I'd be mistaken to call it growth.

on a story note, i hope the creative team does not go that way. Yes they've written and drawn Gary and Sandra in these series of strips to definitely have a bit of chemistry, but i am hoping that is a ship tease only -or very long term foreshadowing.

[Spidrift]

1) Could you work on using paragraph breaks to the full, please? The wall of text is a little unenticing. Consistent capitalisation and sentence structure would be a bonus.

2) I don't know if we'll ever get the point clarified, but I'd be interested to know whether Gary is dropping Senna because he's realised that she's not his type, at all, or whether it's just because he really, really likes playing consulting geek to Sandra. I'm sure that there's a little bit of both, and I'm sure that her little anatomical extra is at least an unconscious factor, but the balance seems significant.

People are talking about this as a big breakthrough for Gary, and maybe it is - if he's realised that not having a relationship is better than being in a really bad relationship, and that it's up to him to end things. But if his reason is basically "I get to play video games and talk geek at someone, and that's more fun than any of this difficult relationship stuff", well, it's not much progress at all.

[Riposite]

Well, if it turns out that Gary is just deciding to opt out of relationships in general, then yes I'd agree that is not a breakthrough at all, or not a positive one. Still I don't think there is evidence yet to support that. Though this does not mean future strips won't provide it, but for the moment I think that is less likely than the other interpretations based on what we have seen so far.
I think the evidence in the strip leads rather to the interpretation that Gary after spending some time with Senna, discovered it was not what he wanted. Yes, one can argue that he needed the contrast of his interactions with Sandra to realize this, rather than simply being able to intuit(?) it on his own. I think we can look at the strips and make a case (though as noted later strips may provide evidence to counter) that he is getting to the point where he is able to make qualitative judgments. Senna did not respect the art he liked, she had never looked at his portfolio etc. I think he realized he was once again letting himself be swept up by another person simply because they expressed physical interest in him. Hence his choice of words "It just didn't work out".
As too Senna's extra equipment, you are right, there is no doubt on some level that has been influencing Gary (it has repeatedly weirded him out), but I don't think it is the driving factor, Gary seemed willing to go along (admittedly without thinking too hard about what it meant in a lot of cases) and I think if Senna had measured up more in a way of emotional attachment, he might have been willing to try? But admittedly that is supposition with much less evidence to support it, though I think this scene would of have played differently if it had occurred at a moment where Senna had been undressed or they had been trying to get intimate and he then stated it wasn't working out. The fact that it was not done that way leads me to believe the authors were trying to convey it had more to do with the personal interaction than that.
The interesting fact is though, Gary still needed the benchmark of how he was interacting with Sandra though. One can infer that if Senna and he had not bumped into her or if Senna had not wanted to rub things in and let it remain a casual one off meeting, Gary may not have come to this conclusion, and in fact would of continued on as a boy toy until Senna grew tired of him. Obviously this is not a 100% turn around for him, but it is arguably the most progress he has made in a long time, and I still don't think you can characterize it as progress he was bullied into.
What remains to be seen is whether or not it lasts upon his return to Montreal.

[Schmorgluck]

I know it's doomed because of Rule of Drama (or in this case Rule of Comedy maybe) and they are ultimately heroes of separate comics, but I find Gary and Sandra very cute together. I used to ship them from the first time they've been in-panel together (passing by one another without interacting). I don't anymore for the aforementioned reasons, but damn, I still find them super-cute. I think it's because they are both meek in their own ways.
Gary tends to be a pushover but Sandra is unlikely to be pushy with him. Sandra is kinda naive but Gary is unlikely to be treacherous with her. And they both have ultimately vanilla ideals in terms of relationships. Sandra has had bad luck with guys and Gary has had... well, no luck with girls, for most of his life. They are kind to each other.

So, I know it won't last, but I do hope they'll stay in good terms even if it doesn't work out. Because they would make cute platonic friends too.