30-12-15 What is best for her

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Zippy
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Re: 30-12-15 What is best for her

Post by Zippy » Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:46 am

The quest for Ruby's eyes is over! They hath arisen, though her glasses even!

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Spidrift
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Re: 30-12-15 What is best for her

Post by Spidrift » Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:19 am

Last thread...
I wrote:I'm now also imagining Ruby just off-screen, hammering frantically at her smartphone screen as she attempts to google all these terms as fast as Ramona and Angel reel them off.
(Which is the guess I'm proud of.)
(Talking of which, so far as I can make out from Wikipedia, 17-β-Hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase III deficiency isn't the same as CAIS. Oh well, I'm sure that we'll get as much clarification as we need; Giz and Dave have clearly done the reading.)
That former now seems to be Ramona's condition. Except that, if Wikipedia is to be trusted (hah!), it tends to involve masculine traits developing at puberty. Oh well. One shouldn't try learning medicine from Webcomics.
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Re: 30-12-15 What is best for her

Post by LegendaryKroc » Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:37 am

Can't say I called it, but I can say I wasn't surprised Angel and Ramona are siblings. I figured it was either that or they were close enough that they were family in all regards except being related.

And is it just me, or do Ruby's actions feel like they're happening in response to the previous thread's discussion of aphroditism, much like the bit about Angel binding xer boobs in that fashion five strips ago? Either way, this arc has accomplished the seemingly impossible task of making jokes about gender identities while remaining tasteful, even being informative for those us less "in the know" about these things. I say the writer(s) deserve a pat on the back. :)

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Re: 30-12-15 What is best for her

Post by Artemisia » Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:17 pm

Ang is still acting like a bully towards Ramona, whether they like to admit it or not. Ramona has the right to identify as she wants and it seems like Ang is the one who is hung up heavily on labels. Honestly, Ang needs to back off a lot. Most people have to do exactly what Ruby's doing when someone says "I'm intersex" or names off one of the dozens of conditions that fall under that umbrella.
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Derfman
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Re: 30-12-15 What is best for her

Post by Derfman » Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:00 pm

vampire hunter D wrote:Hmm, I notice that Angel refers to him/herself as Ramona's "sister" despite being in his malempersona right now.
Previously she said, and I quote, "I identify as male with Jerzy!". It seems that she identifies herself as different genders for different people. For Ramona, she identifies as female. ;)

My guess is that Angie may have developed her gender fluidity as a means of better identifying with her sister. Maybe a little misguided by the looks of Ramona, but she might have misunderstood how things would play out when she was younger.
Last edited by Derfman on Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Spidrift
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Re: 30-12-15 What is best for her

Post by Spidrift » Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:10 pm

LegendaryKroc wrote:And is it just me, or do Ruby's actions feel like they're happening in response to the previous thread's discussion of aphroditism, much like the bit about Angel binding xer boobs in that fashion five strips ago?
I very much doubt that this strip was written in response to that thread. I think that it may look that way because (a) Ruby and (b) many typical posters both have a nerdy but sometimes helpful obsession with doing the reading and getting the facts right.
Derfman wrote:Previously she said, and I quote, "I identify as male with Jerzy!". It seems that she identifies herself as different genders for different people. For Ramona, she identifies as female. ;)
There's possibly a lot of that. And identifying as female to a person who's known you as their sister since they were a child is probably only polite under these circumstances.
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Derfman
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Re: 30-12-15 What is best for her

Post by Derfman » Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:16 pm

Rather then polite, I would say it probably is ingrained in her personality at this point.

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dinoqueen
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Re: 30-12-15 What is best for her

Post by dinoqueen » Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:17 am

JoybuzzerX wrote:
wiseguy wrote:mmm, as someone mentioned

interesting that Angel(not Angie) called self Ramona's sister
Angel didn't likely grow up saying "I'm male!" until much time went by so she's likely used to calling herself Ramona's sister. Not to mention, "I'm her sibling," doesn't flow as well, and really if I heard someone say it that way, I'd wonder if they had some stick up their butt :p
Although Angel could have also phrased it as "She's my sister," which would flow just as well and not mention Angel's gender identity.

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Re: 30-12-15 What is best for her

Post by JoybuzzerX » Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:19 am

True, but doesn't mean it's something one always thinks to say. Either way, from a biological pov Angel is Ramona's sister, so it could be how she meant it and may even be how she see's it in regards to Ramona.

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Cresset
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Re: 30-12-15 What is best for her

Post by Cresset » Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:09 pm

I did what Ruby suggested and the Internet tells me this syndrome is only noticeable when it affects a genetic male, which I guess is Ramona's case? (otherwise the subject is a genetic female with female phenotype, which is nothing out of the ordinary)

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Re: 30-12-15 What is best for her

Post by Spidrift » Fri Jan 01, 2016 10:24 pm

Yes, she said a strip or two ago that she's XY - in other words, genetically male.
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Re: 30-12-15 What is best for her

Post by Geeno » Fri Jan 01, 2016 10:58 pm

So Ramona is what used to be termed an "ambiguous female" - genetically male/physically female?

ETA: Yeah - I believe that jargon is vintage 1970's, but I haven't been keeping abreast of terminology updates.
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Re: 30-12-15 What is best for her

Post by Giz » Sat Jan 02, 2016 1:55 am

Cresset wrote:I did what Ruby suggested and the Internet tells me this syndrome is only noticeable when it affects a genetic male, which I guess is Ramona's case? (otherwise the subject is a genetic female with female phenotype, which is nothing out of the ordinary)
Noticeable? Each case is different. In Ramona's case, she was born a little girl with no signs of anything. She grew up like any other little girl until one day, a sign of something showed up. It varies from person to person. Here's from the wiki on CAIS:
"CAIS can only be diagnosed in normal phenotypic females. It is not usually suspected unless the menses fail to develop at puberty, or an inguinal hernia presents during premenarche."
Once a sign shows up, they do tests and try to figure out what condition this kid/teenager has. In general, they perform a gonatectomy (the removal of gonads) in the teen years as they believe tumors could develop. These days, many individual keep their gonads 'cause in most cases they're functional, produce the hormones necessary to develop breasts, etc, and the risk of tumors is low enough that one may decide to keep them. Keep in mind that inside, there is no uterus. Once a gonatectomy is performed, if they run tests on the gonads, they can discover that the individual had something else, like in Ramona's case. It is true that someone with 17-beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase 3 deficiency (Ramona's condition) will respond to testosterones when those testosterones kick in in the teen years but again, each case is different. Some XX girls are more hairy than others, and the same will apply for an XY girl. It all depends on your family history. Once a gonatectomy is performed ('cause doctors will recommend it)... the HRT (hormone replacement therapy) takes over. So if let's say Ramona was showing some signs of responding to testosterones, like increased pubic hair, it'll go in reverse.

All this to say that Ramona is XY but minus the fact that she can't have children and has no uterus, she's a girl/woman. I'd like to point out that everyone starts off with gonads (sorta like we all have nipples.) If XY = gonads will become testes (unless there's a condition like Ramona), and if XX = they become ovaries (unless there's a condition.)

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Cresset
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Re: 30-12-15 What is best for her

Post by Cresset » Sat Jan 02, 2016 4:54 am

Giz wrote:All this to say that Ramona is XY but minus the fact that she can't have children and has no uterus, she's a girl/woman.
As I thought, then.

(maybe noticeable isn't the best word to use with a situation that involves chromossomes and internal organs, but I was focusing on the phenotype part)

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tau neutrino
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Re: 30-12-15 What is best for her

Post by tau neutrino » Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:51 am

Giz wrote:
All this to say that Ramona is XY but minus the fact that she can't have children and has no uterus, she's a girl/woman.
So does she have a sex life like the rest of the cast (or a more normal one)? Since she seems to be the Only Sane Woman type, would anyone want to ship her with Gary (even though they've never met)?

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