18-12-15 Out of whack

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Morwen
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Re: 18-12-15 Out of whack

Post by Morwen » Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:06 pm

JerrBear wrote:Besides, it's up to individuals to decide whether they view themselves as either normal or abnormal.
Yeah... no. Perception is not reality. You can consider yourself "normal" all you want, if you are different from the majority of the group in question, you're not normal. In contrast, you can revel in your perceived abnormality all you like, if you're just like every single unique little snowflake out there, you're just a boring normal.

To quote someone who is both normal and abnormal, depending on context:
Numbers cannot decide whether they are real or imaginary. Humans cannot decide whether they are "normal" or not, they can only decide whether or not to act the part.
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Spidrift
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Re: 18-12-15 Out of whack

Post by Spidrift » Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:18 pm

I assume that Ramona's condition comes with a few associated medical issues, major or minor, which she needs to acknowkledge for her own safety - so Angel's screaming "THERE'S NOTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT YOU" is simply unhelpful. One would want to encourage Ramona not to use too many negative terms ("unusual" rather than "abnormal", sort of thing), so she can avoid getting an inferiority complex, but really, her saying her insides are out of whack is probably no worse than me saying my eyes are out of whack because I need glasses. It's just acknowledging a practical problem.
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Re: 18-12-15 Out of whack

Post by Treader » Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:52 pm

Spidrift wrote: And I'm going to assume that Ramona is Angel's sister, because otherwise this overbearing attitude takes Angel off the the top of the asshole scale completely. If it's just about looking after a sister, Angel is merely overdoing things; otherwise, it's a controlling psycho behaviour. In fact, I now wonder if Ruby is going to rescue Ramona from Angel, and tell her that's there's nothing wrong with being an out-of-her-depth kid sister in the big city.
Definitely a relative, I'm thinking. Hopefully she sticks around, whether or not the club survives their first meeting; the list of "sane and likeable" seemed to be down to... the cat, I guess? A non-jerk would be nice.

knite
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Re: 18-12-15 Out of whack

Post by knite » Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:22 pm

Huh, now that Ruby brought it up, I think Angel really does need anger-management (I mean the only reason she "stole" The Boyfriend was cause she was angry)

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LarsenSan
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Re: 18-12-15 Out of whack

Post by LarsenSan » Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:16 pm

Wasn't an episode of House based on this syndrome? Some about a teenage supermodel who happend to be genetically male.

BTW, Angel is strong in denial. Having AIS does make a person's inside a little weird. The same way she insists that, when identifying herself as male she's a full male. Hehehe... nope.

Judanas
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Re: 18-12-15 Out of whack

Post by Judanas » Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:06 am

Anger Managment wouldn't be a bad plan.

So far she's started a brawl, called someone a whore and doesn't appear to have an indoor voice about anything.

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Cresset
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Re: 18-12-15 Out of whack

Post by Cresset » Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:43 am

JoybuzzerX wrote:
Artemisia wrote:Ang is just as much an insensitive jerk here as Zii and Dillon (though some of that IS Ramona's fault for using the specific term hermaphrodite). There is nothing wrong with Ramona seeing her body as 'out of whack' or 'abnormal', and constantly being forced to fit into an identity that isn't part of who she is can actually be painful for her.
None of it is Romana's fault. She can describe herself however she wants to describe herself. It's Angel who's out of line, as she's yelling at Romana for being who she is, which is only offensive to Angel.
She's assuming Ramona is just repeating the sort of depreciative comments others may have said about her or her condition, due to low self-esteem. We haven't seen enough of Ramona to know it that's the case or if she's just comfortable enough to joke about it, but Angel has probably been her friend long enough to tell which is it.

We've also seen Angel's thoughts about how relaxing it was to have a conversation without being asked a dozen questions (Ruby just wasn't paying attention, though), so she probably gets defensive seeing someone going through that.

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Re: 18-12-15 Out of whack

Post by JoybuzzerX » Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:45 am

Still doesn't matter why Ramona is saying it. She's saying it. You don't argue with her about what she considers herself.

Nevermind that Angel is wrong herself. Normal is a thing. Do you or do you not fall within the normal line. The fact that there has been abnormalities since the beginning of time, doesn't make it normal. It means that, there being abnormalities is normal. :p

Ramona has come off as seeming to be very secure with herself so far, it has only appeared that Angel herself can't handle other's securities, likely due to her own insecurities.

Quote removed. The DAMNed

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Zayzie
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Re: 18-12-15 Out of whack

Post by Zayzie » Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:10 am

I really like how this comic shows that Dillon isn't actively trying to demonize a group of people, he just happens to be offensive when he is trying to take digs at someone, or if he's being absent-minded and a bit dull. And I was kind of being (somewhat facetious) last strip about being angry enough to strangle them both for being such idiots but I think Angel just tried to pull an Incredible Hulk and failed, miserably.

That being said, I also think it's important to point out that Angel's reaction is on one end of two extremes: on one side there are the people who demonize someone for certain traits, or consider them abnormal and then on the other side there's people who believe it's normal, or should be treated as such, no matter what. Obviously, Angel is the latter, and this is harmful because everyone has some sort of trait or aspect about who they are that, if not dealt with in a healthy and responsible way, can end up affecting them negatively. So it's mportant to acknowledge your traits and their pros and cons, understand them, and then deal with them problem. It's not helpful to just say a trait is bad because it's not common, or to say it's totally okay because it's happened a few times in the course of history.

I would also be interested in the results of anger management classes if Angel chooses to go down that route--cus right now Angel's anger/envy/jealousy issues are through the roof.

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Re: 18-12-15 Out of whack

Post by AbstractVagabond » Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:25 am

Varanus wrote:
Artemisia wrote:There is nothing wrong with Ramona seeing her body as 'out of whack' or 'abnormal',
Indeed, I think some people push the "everyone is normal" philosophy too far as it ignores that there are many conditions that make a person technically "abnormal" and that those people do have to find ways of dealing with it rather than demanding everyone around them treat them the same as everyone else (as that isn't likely to happen). The key is to not judge the abnormality as something that makes the person less of a person.
To me, abnormalities keeps life interesting. What makes a person less of a person is when they're more identifiable as a statistic than an individual.
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JoybuzzerX
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Re: 18-12-15 Out of whack

Post by JoybuzzerX » Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:03 am

Zayzie wrote:I really like how this comic shows that Dillon isn't actively trying to demonize a group of people, he just happens to be offensive when he is trying to take digs at someone, or if he's being absent-minded and a bit dull. And I was kind of being (somewhat facetious) last strip about being angry enough to strangle them both for being such idiots but I think Angel just tried to pull an Incredible Hulk and failed, miserably.

That being said, I also think it's important to point out that Angel's reaction is on one end of two extremes: on one side there are the people who demonize someone for certain traits, or consider them abnormal and then on the other side there's people who believe it's normal, or should be treated as such, no matter what. Obviously, Angel is the latter, and this is harmful because everyone has some sort of trait or aspect about who they are that, if not dealt with in a healthy and responsible way, can end up affecting them negatively. So it's mportant to acknowledge your traits and their pros and cons, understand them, and then deal with them problem. It's not helpful to just say a trait is bad because it's not common, or to say it's totally okay because it's happened a few times in the course of history.

I would also be interested in the results of anger management classes if Angel chooses to go down that route--cus right now Angel's anger/envy/jealousy issues are through the roof.
Just because Dillion is gay, doesn't mean he doesn't have his own prejudices (which he had shown earlier to not really like, maybe even a little hate on, for those who are bi).

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Re: 18-12-15 Out of whack

Post by KittyHat » Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:06 am

I just really wish Angel would get bumped off at some point. No other character in the Ma3-verse can even come close to annoying me as much.

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Zippy
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Re: 18-12-15 Out of whack

Post by Zippy » Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:26 am

Don Alexander wrote:Perhaps Angel believes Earth, Life, the entire Universe... you know, 6000 years ago? :P
So, what you're saying is that Angel's a (young Earth) creationist? As if we didn't have enough reasons to hate 'em!

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JerrBear
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Re: 18-12-15 Out of whack

Post by JerrBear » Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:50 am

Morwen wrote:
JerrBear wrote:Besides, it's up to individuals to decide whether they view themselves as either normal or abnormal.
Yeah... no. Perception is not reality. You can consider yourself "normal" all you want, if you are different from the majority of the group in question, you're not normal. In contrast, you can revel in your perceived abnormality all you like, if you're just like every single unique little snowflake out there, you're just a boring normal.

To quote someone who is both normal and abnormal, depending on context:
Numbers cannot decide whether they are real or imaginary. Humans cannot decide whether they are "normal" or not, they can only decide whether or not to act the part.
I over-generalized a bit out of haste. I'm not meaning to say perception is 100% reality. But one big "but" for me has always been that perception is someone's personal reality and that matters.

Normal tends to be subjective based on personal perception. My own normal is quite a few people's abnormal (Though, usually when they understand that what goes on in my daily life (that pertains to SMA) is my normal, most people end up viewing my normal as normal).

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Cresset
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Re: 18-12-15 Out of whack

Post by Cresset » Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:31 am

JoybuzzerX wrote:Still doesn't matter why Ramona is saying it. She's saying it. You don't argue with her about what she onsiders herself.
If someone I care about starts to say bad things about themselves I'll totally say something, unless I can tell it's just self-deprecating humour.
Nevermind that Angel is wrong herself. Normal is a thing. Do you or do you not fall within the normal line. The fact that there has been abnormalities since the beginning of time, doesn't make it normal. It means that, there being abnormalities is normal. :p
Well sure, but no one really wants to be considered abnormal, which means it's seen as a bad thing. So when someone describes themselves that way, it can be a bit worrying. Most people consider "weird" to be inherently bad, even though it can have more positive meanings such as quirky or eccentric.
Ramona has come off as seeming to be very secure with herself so far, it has only appeared that Angel herself can't handle other's securities, likely due to her own insecurities.
Yeah there's some projection, but I think it probably comes from being subjected to the same barrages of questions. I wouldn't call her insecure though, she doesn't avoid talking about her own condition and answers questions when asked nicely.

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