16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

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cellabella
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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by cellabella » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:02 pm

TheResult wrote:
Uh, yes. That was also a terrible thing to do. I also think it's really awful when characters are perfectly okay to take advantage of Sandra while she's drunk. I find the actions of many characters in the Pixie Trix line-up to be pretty awful. Do you disagree? Do you think those things were okay? Are you taken aback that I find that sort of behavior deplorable?
Taken aback? Relieved is more like it. I may not have been clear that my question was not rhetorical. There were plenty of people on these here forums who had no issues that Amber sexually assaulted Gary, because "he consented after the fact" and "but it was funny!" For me, it was despicable and put me off the comic for a long time. So I am very relieved that you, too, found it terrible.

As for SOTR, I love the art but have huge issues with the storyline(s). You brought up a big one. I generally read the updates, sigh, and move on.
You worded that kind of.. strangely, so I'm not actually sure what you're even talking about. But Dillon went into a jealous rage when someone else flirted with Jerzy, despite the fact that- within a very short amount of time from that point- Dillon himself had been tricking men at his pool to grope him, and was doing it entirely for sexual reasons. So yes, Dillon holds the people he dates to a higher standard than he holds himself. He's shown several times over that he's a huge flirt with other men, even when he's in a relationship, but that he hates the idea of the person he's dating flirting with somebody else. He's a huge hypocrite.
OK, I think this is just a disconnect. You mentioned relationships. I don't consider Dillon to have been in a relationship with anyone except for Matt. He had a couple of dates with Jerzy, which to me doesn't connote a relationship, per se. YMMV, though. And with that in mind, my comment was entirely about Dillon's relationship with Matt. He was led to believe that it was monogamous, yet Matt was cheating. I interpreted your comment to mean that Dillon had no right to expect monogamy of people he dated. We got our wires crossed there, because I wasn't talking about Jerzy at all, and you were. My bad.
"Binding"? What does being "binding" have to do with anything? He told her not to, and he threw a hissy fit about it, like an entitled child-- even though he was taken. It doesn't matter if he has the power to actually stop her or not, that's still shitty, because they're supposed to be friends and because he was in a relationship, and that's not something you do while you're in a relationship.
I genuinely don't know what you're talking about here. I am not being sarcastic at all when I ask if I maybe missed some strips or if these are strips that were made as part of the print run Kickstarter?

At the start of SDB, Dillon has given up the Gary dream. He has come to grips with the fact that Gary doesn't want him in that way, and it's Amber who (possibly playfully) calls him a liar when Dillon says he has no problem if she goes after Gary.

If you're talking about Dillon's time in the MA3-verse, he did not start openly crushing on Gary until after things disintegrated with Matt. He did not start dating seriously again until SDB started. So I'm not really sure to what you are referring with the hissy fit while he was in a relationship - when he threw the hissy fit, he wasn't seeing anyone, and when he started seeing someone, he threw no hissy fit that I can recall.

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Cresset
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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by Cresset » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:28 pm

Dillon isn't Buddha. If a rival was gloating over convincing someone to leave me and go back to them, I would go for as many low blows as possible too.

But given his character I'm pretty sure Dillon is just acting like this because Angel is within earshot ('Whatever you say, Annngie" - Angel has mentioned she doesn't like that name) and he knows Angel is tough enough and can take the insults (one strip ago she was rubbing her victory in his face and laughing heartily). He's petty and dramatic but not outright mean-spirited.

By the way I find it funny how people still fight tooth and nail over "losing" Jerzy, given his chronic cheating habit. Is it still considered losing if you know it will eventually happen?
Robbzilla wrote:OK, calling shenannigans... (On Angel, not the strip)

If she wants to refer to herself as a hermaphrodite, then Screw Angel. That's her prerogative.
There are no human hermaphrodites, though. He's correcting her on the usage of an incorrect term. Her reaction suggests she wasn't sure herself.
Last edited by Cresset on Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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themacnut
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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by themacnut » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:34 pm

I am once again pleased to see Dillon confirm my low opinion of him (I consider Angel/Angie to be no better, btw). It can be interesting when the main protagonist of a story is regularly shown to be of low character, that's when they can become someone readers or viewers love to hate.
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Fluffy
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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by Fluffy » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:58 pm

Cresset wrote:Dillon isn't Buddha. If a rival was gloating over convincing someone to leave me and go back to them, I would go for as many low blows as possible too.
But Angel didn't convince Jerzy to go back to them, Jerzy made that decision all on his own - largely due to Dillon's bullshit behavior towards him (not to mention a rather horrible accusation) that Jerzy finally had enough of. As for gloating - the closest Angel came to that was calling Jerzy the love of their life in the middle of a threeway brawl. Anything other than that was Angel correcting Dillon on his assumption that it was Angel's fault Jerzy dumped him, and not Dillon's own actions that pushed him away.
But given his character I'm pretty sure Dillon is just acting like this because Angel is within earshot ('Whatever you say, Annngie"
No, Dillon is behaving that way because he's a disrespectful asshole - through and through.
(Angel has mentioned she doesn't like that name)
And Dillon knew this - how? We've seen Angel correct Jerzy when he used that name; but Dillon had no way of knowing it was a name they didn't like.
and he knows Angel is tough enough and can take the insults (one strip ago she was rubbing her victory in his face and laughing heartily). He's petty and dramatic but not outright mean-spirited.
Don't know - a gay man who expects to have his sexual identity tolerated/accepted by others disregarding a gender fluid's preferred identity and referring to them as being a crazy tomboy isn't what I would call being good natured on Dillon's part - not by a long shot. He's outright calling Angel a nutcase - which is incredibly mean-spirited.
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Cresset
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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by Cresset » Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:21 pm

Fluffy wrote:Don't know - a gay man who expects to have his sexual identity tolerated/accepted by others disregarding a gender fluid's preferred identity and referring to them as being a crazy tomboy isn't what I would call being good natured on Dillon's part - not by a long shot. He's outright calling Angel a nutcase - which is incredibly mean-spirited.
Yeah, but Angel is hardly a flower herself. I don't think he would do it if she was a timid person who is likely to run away crying, like Ramona there.
Fluffy wrote:And Dillon knew this - how? We've seen Angel correct Jerzy when he used that name; but Dillon had no way of knowing it was a name they didn't like.
I imagine Jerzy just informed him offscreen when they were talking about Angel back then.

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Spidrift
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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by Spidrift » Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:33 pm

Cresset wrote:Dillon isn't Buddha. If a rival was gloating over convincing someone to leave me and go back to them, I would go for as many low blows as possible too.
But how low would you be prepared to go? If the person you were trying to annoy happened to be black, would you use the N-word?
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wallweasels
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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by wallweasels » Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:44 pm

Well It is hardly easy to justify anyones behavior in this regardless. Its rather hard to see who actually started the physical fighting but whoever it is...isn't justified at all. But I can, somewhat, rationalize just about every characters opinions and feelings.
Whats comical is that Dillion commonly treads the line on gender quite massively. He also doesn't just do it, he enjoys being passable as a woman. He is right in that doing so doesn't make him any less of a male. Suffering from a quite classic, and understandably ignorant, clash of "gender and sex" that most people can tangled on. Mostly because male is commonly used in both sexual and gender classifications.
Regardless, both Angel and DIllion are remarkable similiar people. To me, I've always found that "gender fluid" is be somewhat awkward as it can be quite a 'person to person' thing. It should come to no surprise that people might have some 'oops wrong word' moments or have issues/snags in areas. Generally people like concrete things. Society has slowly learned that gay just means you like men, bisexual just means you like both, and trans usually means you are were an Y and now you are a X, or vice versa. However saying "on tuesday I was a man and thursday I'll be a woman" is going to throw some people aloof. Dillion already has done this, just without the self-identifier. So it comes off as weird to him. This is based on his personal system he has adopted and it clashes with Angels.
Ramona being thrown into the mix is just a clash of old and newer terms for something that means basically the same thing. Albeit hermaphrodite being a term that generally causes some wrong imagery caused by myth. However I do dislike intersex as it doesn't really mean anything on its own. Most of the time its a case to case basis and, given her appearance...I would be inclined to think Ramona just had some "birth complications" to put it nicely. :ymsmug:

More than likely Dillion with end up agreeing, in some form or another, with Angels existence. But no one here is really in the right...except maybe Ramona and Ruby for just generally being confused/concerned. :x

[edit]Also long time reader, first time poster. Mostly the recent gender things has sparked my interest in poking around here. Although I usually read comments anyway for most comments. >_>
Last edited by wallweasels on Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Morwen
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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by Morwen » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:10 pm

wallweasels wrote:*snip*...and transsexual usually means you are were an Y and now you are a X, or vice versa.
Honest question here for whomever (whoever?) feels like answering:
Isn't transsexual technically used for people in the process of X-to-Y (or Y-to-X) and they are simply X or Y afterwards?
Just going by etymology and all...
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Cortez
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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by Cortez » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:52 pm

Spidrift wrote:
Cresset wrote:Dillon isn't Buddha. If a rival was gloating over convincing someone to leave me and go back to them, I would go for as many low blows as possible too.
But how low would you be prepared to go? If the person you were trying to annoy happened to be black, would you use the N-word?
Yeah, even in a heated argument there are lines you don't cross. Especially since it can cause things to escalate.

And again, Zii and Angel have their issues too, but she still respects Angel's identity.

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Duck Duck Lincoln
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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by Duck Duck Lincoln » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:58 pm

I'll give a slight pass to the physical fighting because this all happens in a cartoon universe were brawls are supposed to be hilarious instead of assault, but I'm fairly disgusted with Dillon right now. Whatever faults Angel has, that doesn't excuse bigotry.

(And, yeah, I'm with those creeped out about Amber tricking Gary into performing cunnilingus way back when. Most of these characters don't seem to give a toss about informed consent.)

Some people with non-binary identities (ie people who don't identify with the same single gender all the time, including genderfluid folks like Angel) do consider themselves transsexuals. Some are on HRT or have had surgeries, some haven't. But there are binary trans people who don't use HRT and have no plans for surgery who still consider themselves transsexual. Transition isn't defined by medical interventions alone.

(There are also non-binary people who don't consider themselves trans. It can be a touchy subject because of that.)

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wallweasels
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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by wallweasels » Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:12 pm

Morwen wrote:
wallweasels wrote:*snip*...and transsexual usually means you are were an Y and now you are a X, or vice versa.
Honest question here for whomever (whoever?) feels like answering:
Isn't transsexual technically used for people in the process of X-to-Y (or Y-to-X) and they are simply X or Y afterwards?
Just going by etymology and all...
To my understanding the only critical difference between -sexual and -gender is the former usually goes to hormones/surgery and the latter just dresses/identifies. But, for the most part, I don't think I've ever had someone complain about being labeled as one or the other.
You'll usually see it just said as "trans", mostly as 'trans-rights' or just 'trans', for simplicity. I did mish-mash my words up in my post though :v But you'll always see different strokes for different folks you meet.

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Morwen
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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by Morwen » Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:15 pm

I thought the term for the crossdressing bit was transvestite, or is that not PC anymore?

And just to be clear, I'm still going by etymology alone.
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Spidrift
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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by Spidrift » Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:22 pm

Hey, another name from the past! Welcome back, DDL...

Note, incidentally, that Angel apparently initiated the physical violence; now, Dillon is being a jerk. We're clearly not meant to sympathise much with either of them.
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Shinjischneider
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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by Shinjischneider » Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:27 pm

Itrogash wrote:
Maechris wrote:I get the feeling he's doing it specifically because it's Angel, though. Someone personally involved whom he despises. "I'm open minded but petty as hell" does define Dillon well to an extent, I feel. And he's the guy who thinks Angel somehow stole Jerzy from him.
I don't think spouting bigoted nonsense can be justified just because it's personal.
Having said that, way to be a dick, Dillion. My dislike for him rose to the levels from the time he was obsessing over Gary.
Dillon is desperatly trying to reach the crown of "biggest jerk in the series". Already overlapping Zii and extremely close to Matt.

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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by TheResult » Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:30 pm

cellabella wrote:As for SOTR, I love the art but have huge issues with the storyline(s). You brought up a big one. I generally read the updates, sigh, and move on.
I'm glad somebody else is bothered by the fact that Sandra's comic plays up her drunken sex for laughs, especially since Ma3 had a couple of strips where they admitted that Gary's would-be boss was a major creep for wanting to have sex with a drunken Zii, and Gary (and stalker girl, I forget her name) saved her because she was too drunk to consent. Baring in mind that Sandra acts nothing like she does when sober, and Sandra always completely forgets the things she does while drunk-- nobody should argue that she's in a state where she could consent when she's drunk.

Whether it's any of the guys, or more recently Aaina, that whole schtick is really unnerving.
cellabella wrote:My bad.
It happens, we move on.
I genuinely don't know what you're talking about here.
I tried finding it, but I can't remember when it actually happens, so now I'm thinking I'm either remembering it wrong or mixed up the timeline when Dillon threw a hissy fit about it.

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