16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

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Fluffy
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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by Fluffy »

Am I the only one who is disgusted with Dillon's lack of respect for Angel's sexual identity?

Yeah, he hates Angel - still doesn't justify his looking down on them like that. I mean, if anyone disrespected Dillon's sexual identity (like, say - referring to him as a sissy boy instead of gay),I think it's a safe bet that Dillon would pitch a fit. But, when it comes to Angel,it's perfectly okay for him to refer to them as a tomboy and not genderfluid?

Dillon's asshole behavior is just making me dislike him more and more.
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Spidrift
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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by Spidrift »

Morwen wrote:Not saying whether or not I agree with him and I -do- think part of it is to spite Angel, but for the majority of people -offline- Dillon is being the reasonable one.
Unfortunately true, but its the ironic hypocrisy here that's notable. If we got this sort of line from some random socially conservative character, we could wince or shrug or whatever - but from Mister Level-20-in-Gay-With-Added-Gay-Sprinkles, this looks deeply head-smack-worthy.
brasca wrote:
Don Alexander wrote:Likely to a very long thread. :P
Indeed and the one most likely to go ballistic over this was banned the other day. Oh well.
I'm not seeing why this thread should go metastatic. I mean, there are doubtless issues associated with having an intersex character, but Ramona hasn't been presented as evil or saintly or anything yet; right now, her status is just sitting on the page, making Dillon look like a pratt. What's to go ballistic over?
brasca wrote:And Ruby might have the right idea since this group already has a good representation of the sexuality spectrum.
Ruby's been quite lucky, really. She needed her horizons expanding, and now she's encountering a wide range of character types and sexual identities, but none of them are making it difficult. They've generally been fairly decent to her, modulo a little teasing; she can easily walk away thinking that people are interesting but okay and mostly just people, and the big wide world is more interesting than scary.
Fluffy wrote:Am I the only one who is disgusted with Dillon's lack of respect for Angel's sexual identity?
Umm, no you aren't. See the rest of the thread.

Dillon had been given a little genuinely positive character development recently, but it seems that there's still a dangerously large mass of egocentric jerk just under the surface. And even insofar as this is "just" Dillon trolling Angel, the sheer pettiness of it is pretty horrible.
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TheResult
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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by TheResult »

Fluffy wrote:Dillon's asshole behavior is just making me dislike him more and more.
I've honestly never liked Dillon. As a character, he's an incredibly petty drama queen who holds the people he dates to a higher standard than he holds himself-- he's jealous to the point of paranoia, and yet he will actively trick heterosexual men into fondling him for the sake of his own pleasure. While in a relationship with said object of jealous paranoia. At the exact same time he's dating the aforementioned object of jealous paranoia, he'll tell close friends that they're not allowed to date or have sex with somebody he's not dating, just because that person is one of the (presumably, at least to him) heterosexual men he enjoyed tricking into fondling him. And now he's all of those things as well as disrespectful of somebody else's gender identity.

Dillon is, in general, pretty awful.

Robbzilla
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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by Robbzilla »

OK, calling shenannigans... (On Angel, not the strip)

If she wants to refer to herself as a hermaphrodite, then Screw Angel. That's her prerogative.

Varanus
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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by Varanus »

Fluffy wrote:Am I the only one who is disgusted with Dillon's lack of respect for Angel's sexual identity?

Yeah, he hates Angel - still doesn't justify his looking down on them like that. I mean, if anyone disrespected Dillon's sexual identity (like, say - referring to him as a sissy boy instead of gay),I think it's a safe bet that Dillon would pitch a fit. But, when it comes to Angel,it's perfectly okay for him to refer to them as a tomboy and not genderfluid?

Dillon's asshole behavior is just making me dislike him more and more.
These characters just got done beating each other up and proclaiming their hatred of each other, should we really be expecting them to be respectful of each other's gender identities?

Besides, we've long known Dillon has issues with bisexual people and losing guys he is interested in to the opposite sex. Based on that it is no surprise he is going crazy on losing Jerzy to someone who is physically and genetically female.

For the record, I don't like Dillon all that much either, but I don't see his current behavior as notably worse than things he has done in the past so I am not at all enraged by it. Just more Dillon craziness. ;)

<><><>

Technically Angel is right though, if one is thinking of true hermaphrodites (creatures with functional male and female reproductive organs) then a human one has never been confirmed.

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Spidrift
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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by Spidrift »

I'm now wondering if Ruby is going to tear into Dillon over this thing. After all, at her best, she has quite a nice combination of modern open-mindedness and old-fashioned manners - and if Dillon is going to lumber her with the job of being his Jimminy Cricket, she might decide to do the job properly.
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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by Artemisia »

Osaru Sensei wrote:Dammit Dill-o, as the mascot of the club you're supposed to be the reasonable one... #-o

Also Angel, please tone down the Grammar-Nazi/Political-Correctness-Nazi tendencies?

... Really, Ramona? That was an unexpected plot development, can't wait to see where this all leads!
Well, Ang shouldn't say anything because intersex covers a lot of ground. Maybe Ramona is actually hermaphroditic as a subset of intersex in that she was born with both sets of gonads especially since the condition that produces someone with that situation is both difficult to pronounce for some people, and usually gets them looked at like they walked out of a D&D manual. Most people with some form of intersexuality have a condition which creates abnormal genitalia or have abnormal genetics.

Heck, I know some people who actually don't even try to tell people they're intersex due to the fact that they get looked at like they've grown a goat's head.
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FrostDancer81
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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by FrostDancer81 »

So Dillon acting like a jerk to someone he obviously doesn't like in a way that pushes the wrong buttons for people on the forum? Not exactly anything I would call new for him. If the comic is any indication, then Dillon will be getting more of that sweet character development in the near and far future so I'm just gonna sit, watch and see what happens instead of blowing a gasket about his transphobia at a person he obviously has no intention of getting along with. Character development in the form of Zii or Ruby telling him what's up and telling him to at least pretend to tolerate Angel/Angie and try (key word here) to respect whatever gender they are at the moment. Hell, even Ramona may knock some sense into him just by being sweet and reasonable after this revelation. :))
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cellabella
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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by cellabella »

TheResult wrote:
Fluffy wrote:Dillon's asshole behavior is just making me dislike him more and more.
I've honestly never liked Dillon. As a character, he's an incredibly petty drama queen who holds the people he dates to a higher standard than he holds himself-- he's jealous to the point of paranoia, and yet he will actively trick heterosexual men into fondling him for the sake of his own pleasure. While in a relationship with said object of jealous paranoia. At the exact same time he's dating the aforementioned object of jealous paranoia, he'll tell close friends that they're not allowed to date or have sex with somebody he's not dating, just because that person is one of the (presumably, at least to him) heterosexual men he enjoyed tricking into fondling him. And now he's all of those things as well as disrespectful of somebody else's gender identity.

Dillon is, in general, pretty awful.
Wow, so you must really hate Amber then, right? Because, y'know, she went beyond tricking someone into fondling her to tricking someone into performing cunnilingus on her.

And, hmm, expecting a guy you think enough of to leave a sweet setup and live with not to cheat with anything that comes his way is "holding people to a higher standard than he holds himself"? I must have missed the strips where he banged other men while still with Matt. Were those Kickstarter-only strips?

And telling a 20-something woman with full agency she's "not allowed to date" (not what happened, but I'll go with it) someone because he has a crush on the guy is binding somehow because ... reasons, yeah?

Dillon was a pig in this strip. It makes me angry. I feel it's shitty characterization, but I'm fine with people piling on him for his actions in today's update. But the other stuff? I really think you're reading a different comic.

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Cortez
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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by Cortez »

Ok, Dillon is being bit of a dick now. Well, more than a bit.

...Where's Zii anyway?
Varanus wrote:[
These characters just got done beating each other up and proclaiming their hatred of each other, should we really be expecting them to be respectful of each other's gender identities?
Yes, Hating each other is no excuse for being transphobic or any other manner of bigotry for that matter.

Besides, Zii doesn't get a long with Angel either and yet she still has the decency to respect Angel's gender identity.

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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by TheResult »

cellabella wrote:Wow, so you must really hate Amber then, right? Because, y'know, she went beyond tricking someone into fondling her to tricking someone into performing cunnilingus on her.
Uh, yes. That was also a terrible thing to do. I also think it's really awful when characters are perfectly okay to take advantage of Sandra while she's drunk. I find the actions of many characters in the Pixie Trix line-up to be pretty awful. Do you disagree? Do you think those things were okay? Are you taken aback that I find that sort of behavior deplorable?
cellabella wrote:And, hmm, expecting a guy you think enough of to leave a sweet setup and live with not to cheat with anything that comes his way is "holding people to a higher standard than he holds himself"?
You worded that kind of.. strangely, so I'm not actually sure what you're even talking about. But Dillon went into a jealous rage when someone else flirted with Jerzy, despite the fact that- within a very short amount of time from that point- Dillon himself had been tricking men at his pool to grope him, and was doing it entirely for sexual reasons. So yes, Dillon holds the people he dates to a higher standard than he holds himself. He's shown several times over that he's a huge flirt with other men, even when he's in a relationship, but that he hates the idea of the person he's dating flirting with somebody else. He's a huge hypocrite.
cellabella wrote:And telling a 20-something woman with full agency she's "not allowed to date" (not what happened, but I'll go with it) someone because he has a crush on the guy is binding somehow because ... reasons, yeah?
"Binding"? What does being "binding" have to do with anything? He told her not to, and he threw a hissy fit about it, like an entitled child-- even though he was taken. It doesn't matter if he has the power to actually stop her or not, that's still shitty, because they're supposed to be friends and because he was in a relationship, and that's not something you do while you're in a relationship.

Varanus
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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by Varanus »

Cortez wrote:Besides, Zii doesn't get a long with Angel either and yet she still has the decency to respect Angel's gender identity.
Course calling Angel a girl now shouldn't be offensive to her given Angel just said one strip ago that she identifies as male "with Jerzy" which would imply she is fine with being called female in other situations. Course now she is saying she identifies as male period, so I am a bit confused. :-\

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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by Spidrift »

Angel seems to default to identifying as male, with occasional switches to female when the fancy takes her. At least, that's the interpretation of Angel's actions and attitudes that seems to me to work best, and Richie said as much, presumably after some kind of explanation from Angel.

As to Dillon's being a jerk - yes, I'll agree with that. But this seems to be a bit of a case of backsliding after recent marginal but real improvements. As those seemed to be down to Ruby's influence, with her having specifically called him on some of his hypocritical crap, I will be interested to see if she pulls him up on this. I'll also be interested to observe her attitude to Ramona now; they seem to have quite a lot in common, and Ruby can't always politely restrain her nosiness about non-standard sexualities.

Now, changing the subject; it occurs to me that the Ma3 universe doesn't actually quite manage a QuILTBAG full house, because it lacks anyone definitely asexual. Weird, that.
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Cortez
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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by Cortez »

Well, some fans think Jun might be Asexual.

Course calling Angel a girl now shouldn't be offensive to her given Angel just said one strip ago that she identifies as male "with Jerzy"
Not quite, he identifies as male most of the time, even when Jerzy isn't around and when Angel wasn't with Jerzy.

Angel already stated they're genderfluid.
Don Alexander wrote:I'm quite amused that Mr. Super-Duper Gay, Dillon, is spouting anti-queer nonsense worthy of a big-C Conservative. Previously thinking Angel was just an emo Harlequin guy, he has now quickly turned 180° and defines Angel by her boobs... /:)
Unfortunately, this sorta thing isn't uncommon. Like their are gay men that are biphobic for example.

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Spidrift
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Re: 16-12-15 Not tomboyish at all

Post by Spidrift »

Cortez wrote:Well, some fans think Jun might be Asexual.
Hence my use of the word "definitely".

Though anyway, I still have a sporting bet on Jung being Roxy's costumier-inamorata.
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