11-12-15 Knockout in a dress

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11-12-15 Knockout in a dress

Post by Giz » Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:08 am


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Re: 11-12-15 Knockout in a dress

Post by Osaru Sensei » Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:42 am

Angie/Angel speaks true words... unless you happen to be named Alchemy and carry a scythe for a living.

S/he also seems a lot friendlier as a woman than a man, or is that just my imagination?
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Re: 11-12-15 Knockout in a dress

Post by vampire hunter D » Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:53 am

Nice observation. Angie was pretty nice. Angel is just a douche
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Re: 11-12-15 Knockout in a dress

Post by Spidrift » Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:09 am

Ah, the mature and thoughtful conversation continues. Slightly weak punchline, but I like the way that Ruby pops up with irrelevant commentary there. Given her fair-mindedness, I'd have expected her to say "You both really do", but I guess that the writers don't want Dillon finding out what she knew about Angel just yet; he may get a bit huffy about that.
Osaru Sensei wrote:S/he also seems a lot friendlier as a woman than a man, or is that just my imagination?
I think it's an artefact of the way the story has gone. We've mostly seen male-Angel being an aggressive rival to Dillon and Zii, when he's to some extent the villain of the comic, and certainly a bit of a jerk. We've seen female-Angel trying to get Jerzy to accept her nature, flirting with Richie, and teasing Ruby quite gently - dealing with people she likes, in other words, and not showing her creepy stalker side. So of course female-Angel looks like a nicer person on average.

And I don't think we're seeing female-Angel here, if that's what you mean. We've been reminded of Angel's anatomical sex, at the same time that the fight has wound down - but Angel's actual current presentation is a bit indeterminate.
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Re: 11-12-15 Knockout in a dress

Post by TwoWayStar » Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:13 am

i dont get the punchline..? whats angel laughing at so hard??

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Re: 11-12-15 Knockout in a dress

Post by Spidrift » Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:19 am

"Dickhead" is an insult usually addressed to men, especially as it includes a reference to male anatomy. Dillon has just spent the last three panels categorising Angel as female because of her anatomy, and then he blows it by insulting Angel as a male, with a reference to male anatomy. Angel is laughing at Dillon's inability to keep those categories str... clear.

Yeah, weak punchline, frankly.
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Re: 11-12-15 Knockout in a dress

Post by Don Alexander » Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:11 pm

=)) =)) =))

Should have called Angel "clithead". :P

This is really refreshing after all the nonsense going on over in the Ma3 thread...
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Re: 11-12-15 Knockout in a dress

Post by Artemisia » Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:02 pm

Osaru Sensei wrote:Angie/Angel speaks true words... unless you happen to be named Alchemy and carry a scythe for a living.

S/he also seems a lot friendlier as a woman than a man, or is that just my imagination?
First of all, if it helps, Ang can be referred to as 'they'. It has been used for centuries as a gender neutral singular when one did not know the specific gender of an individual, and in today's parlance, it has been used by people who are gender fluid or gender neutral to refer to themselves or by people to refer to them. Plus, 'Ang' can be a good gender neutral nickname for someone with Angel or Angela (Angelique, etc) as a name.

And, as was recently pointed out...the male ego tends to be overly inflated even in people/species which are gender fluid.
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Re: 11-12-15 Knockout in a dress

Post by brasca » Fri Dec 11, 2015 3:32 pm

Spidrift wrote:"Dickhead" is an insult usually addressed to men, especially as it includes a reference to male anatomy. Dillon has just spent the last three panels categorising Angel as female because of her anatomy, and then he blows it by insulting Angel as a male, with a reference to male anatomy. Angel is laughing at Dillon's inability to keep those categories str... clear.

Yeah, weak punchline, frankly.
I suppose since I've never heard of anyone calling a woman that, however, insults based on anatomy are somewhat interchangeable.

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Re: 11-12-15 Knockout in a dress

Post by UnsightlyWalrus » Fri Dec 11, 2015 4:27 pm

I'm with the school of thought that gender is biological and it's something you are and not something that you can choose (yet). Even if you chop off your ****, devour hundreds of hormone pills and have your gender changed in official papers, your scars and your very own chromosomes point out your biological gender.

And that's just my opinion.

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Re: 11-12-15 Knockout in a dress

Post by Miora » Fri Dec 11, 2015 4:55 pm

I find Angel/Angie highly unattractive, therefore her/his gender is irrelevant to me.
For all I care it makes no difference even if there's no genitals at all.
Genitals and gender are only relevant for sex and reproduction.

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Re: 11-12-15 Knockout in a dress

Post by Spidrift » Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:34 pm

brasca wrote:I suppose since I've never heard of anyone calling a woman that, however, insults based on anatomy are somewhat interchangeable.
In practice, "dickhead" seems to be a (male) gendered insult, usually. Whether that's because it references male anatomy, I'm not sure...

Thinking about it, insults based on male anatomy tend to be male gendered, while insults based on female anatomy tend to be non-gendered, or even aimed at men. Of course, that's because feminising a man is traditionally insulting, whereas telling a woman she has masculine qualities would seem dangerously close to a compliment to some people.

Aaaaand I'm over-analysing, because the punchline is weak enough to need explication. Oh well. I guess that the specific point in the strip is that Dillon has been subconsciously thinking of Angel as a "dickhead" for days, because he thought of Angel as male, and now he can't break the habit.
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Re: 11-12-15 Knockout in a dress

Post by JoybuzzerX » Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:39 pm

Miora wrote:Genitals and gender are only relevant for sex and reproduction.
DNA tests and which prison to be sent to, as well, which with Ruby filming on her phone, could be relevant to Angel first attacking and Dillion assaulting a female (regardless of him being assaulted first).
Spidrift wrote:
brasca wrote:I suppose since I've never heard of anyone calling a woman that, however, insults based on anatomy are somewhat interchangeable.
In practice, "dickhead" seems to be a (male) gendered insult, usually. Whether that's because it references male anatomy, I'm not sure...

Thinking about it, insults based on male anatomy tend to be male gendered, while insults based on female anatomy tend to be non-gendered, or even aimed at men. Of course, that's because feminising a man is traditionally insulting, whereas telling a woman she has masculine qualities would seem dangerously close to a compliment to some people.

Aaaaand I'm over-analysing, because the punchline is weak enough to need explication. Oh well. I guess that the specific point in the strip is that Dillon has been subconsciously thinking of Angel as a "dickhead" for days, because he thought of Angel as male, and now he can't break the habit.
I think the times are changing. Asshole seemed to be male centered and now seems to be going over to gender neutral. At least, that's how it's seemed to me.

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Re: 11-12-15 Knockout in a dress

Post by Maechris » Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:58 pm

JoybuzzerX wrote:
Miora wrote:Genitals and gender are only relevant for sex and reproduction.
DNA tests and which prison to be sent to, as well, which with Ruby filming on her phone, could be relevant to Angel first attacking and Dillion assaulting a female (regardless of him being assaulted first).
PUBERTY GROWTH HORMONES ACTIVITY OF GLANDS HIP BONE STRUCTURE SECONDARY CHARACTERSTICS MUSCLE DEVELOPMENT ARGGHHHHHHH

Yeah, when you're in the biology/chemistry or medical departments, accepting the above statement to its logical extreme proves almost impossible :P

But, yeah, when it comes to general personality, treatment we should extend towards a person we're romantically uninvolved and uninterested in, and when we're talking about virtues and flaws of fictional characters, this statement should at least be strived towards.



Angel's an impulsive, unforgiving and obsessed individual, but there are some positive sides to their character that mostly only people they're neutral or friendly towards get to see.
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Re: 11-12-15 Knockout in a dress

Post by Zayzie » Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:13 pm

(I tend to lurk the forum threads for the comics rather than participate in them, so apologies for appearing out of nowhere)

Myself (cis-woman) and many other women I know have actually used "dickhead" or "dick" as an insult to each other before, and I get called it a lot. I never actually thought about it much until I took an economics class where I was informed that the terms are used to insult people based on gender norms/roles.

Insults referencing cis-male anatomy tend to be geared towards insulting a person's rashness, foolishness, manipulative tendencies, overbearing tendencies, shamelessness--very extreme traits associated with men's roles in a relationship or a society. Insults referencing cis-female tend to be associated with weakness, submissiveness, fragility, being delicate, vain, promiscuous, etc. Some insults are often interchangeable while others might be specific to one gender like "whore". In regards to the comic, Dillon's lack of skill in articulating his true feelings into a thoughtful insult, resorted in him referring to Angel as a "dickhead" when he probably meant something like "you are a manipulative, overbearing and obsessed jerk" (which is still hypocritical regardless of whether Angel or Dillon said it).

That being said, I didn't much anything about this Angel/Dillon/Zii fight funny, save for Zii's part in all this. And today's strip just makes me cringe a lot, and I really didn't think the punchline was funny.

Both Dillon and Angel are being so incredibly sexist and (unwittingly) self-degrading, especially in this strip, and the conversation, obectively makes very little sense. They're fighting over Jerzy and how their definition of "gay" applies to him, and bashing qualities, perceived as girl-specific, in the process. I don't even understand why Angel even continues to hate Dillon, he's not even trying to get Jerzy back, and Jerzy hasn't been unfaithful at all (unless you count that calendar spread with Dillon, though I don't think anything really happened). Angel could very easily be the better person here by being satisfied with having Jerzy, but, by even getting into this fight, and going as far to go after Zii, it's obvious Angel is just as insecure about their relationship with Jerzy as Dillon was.

Like, at this point, I just want Jerzy to move to Australia and get into a monogamous relationship with any other person living on the planet while I finish off strangling these two butt wipes with my bare hands. I've got enough of their Jerzy-specific angst to use up an average person's liftetime supply of facepalms and incoherent rage.

However, kudos to Giz for making characters with enough personality to provoke such an intense emotional response though. I don't usually get hung up on characters like that, especially ones I don't like.
Last edited by Zayzie on Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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