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wiseguy wrote:(ray is not adjusting his pants)

Look closer.

Truthfully, I believe that Jordan and Dillon should just leave. Don't take a supporting role. Don't even answer any calls. The reason? This film is doomed, and it could really hurt their careers moving forward. Nathan's "casting" of a young, unknown as a gay superspy....for a role like that, you want someone who is a known quantity...but this isn't reality....

Sometimes, going with the unknown actor is the way to do it.

That said, agreed. No point in them staying around, unless, as mentioned earlier, Dillon reminds Nathan of his right to take the part.

Quote removed. The DAMned

Well, I was thinking in terms of the fact that this is already a fairly niche film (gay superspy). If you want it to stay fairly niche, you cast unknowns. If you want to break out of that niche, you go for someone more known. It's rare that you get an unknown actor in such a role and have it be profitable. It could happen, but Ray had better be a damned good actor for that to happen.

Spidrift wrote:Ah, that's unexpected - the return of Helena!

I love attention to details and she looks good when she's not suddenly pulled into one of Nathan's late night contract negotiations. Not a bad job if Nathan never harasses her and the yaoi could be a definite job perk. This could be Ruby in 10 years.

While this strip is not as big of a farce as Menage a 3 there is the possibility that what we are concluding is not what actually happened although the evidence is quite overwhelming. It might be possible that Nathan was looking for a way to outmaneuver Dillon since he started to stand up for himself. Ray might have mentioned that he received acting lessons from Dillon and Nathan saw an opportunity. Maybe Ray did not have sex with Nathan to get the part, but Nathan might have mentioned a love scene and that he would need to sound believable which is what we heard emanating from the audition room. Or maybe he convinced him to test Dillon as a master thespian and make him think he had sex with him to get the part and if he could convince Dillon, his teacher, then the student will have surpassed him.

Of course I could be wrong about all of this, but I want to offer some alternative theories.

Sinocelt wrote:

wiseguy wrote:(ray is not adjusting his pants)

Look closer.

nice pants..........if they stay so well even when is loose

Incidentally, it's a trivial point, but nobody has bothered pointing out yet that Nathan's vocalizations during sex are quite consistent.

christopheftw wrote:Now, didn't Dillon get a right of first refusal for the next three leads in his contract with Nathan?

He did. Actually, keeping his current role plus first refusal on the next three. However, if one wants to fudge round that... He and Amber have just wrapped one film, and are currently shooting another. They may well be signed up for another two which are still in preparation, or even have turned one or two down. So Nathan may actually have fulfilled that part of the contract.

(This would suggest that Nathan's company churns movies out fairly briskly. But that'd be in character for him somehow.)

christopheftw wrote:The most interesting part of this storyline to me is that we may get a better idea on just how ambitious Ray is, and whether he is as honest and naïve as he has presented.

He's come across to me as quite obsessively determined to build a big career fast. I mean, just for a start, when he still thought of himself as straight, he was prepared to kiss an old male friend at length, just to refine his acting technique. And there was all that stuff about inducing strong feelings.

JoybuzzerX wrote:No point in them staying around, unless, as mentioned earlier, Dillion reminds Nathan of his right to take the part.

A job is a job, and a solid supporting role could be worth having. Acting isn't the most reliable of careers; work doesn't come easy. Plus, Dillon may decide that Ray needs nursemaiding.

brasca wrote:I love attention to details and she looks good when she's not suddenly pulled into one of Nathan's late night contract negotiations. Not a bad job if Nathan never harasses her and the yaoi could be a definite job perk. This could be Ruby in 10 years.

I'd hope not, for Ruby's sake. There's a lot of papering over of Nathan's crappy behaviour involved, which will at best feel sordid, and her thoughts when she was delivering those documents suggest a lot of out-of-hours calls to handle what's actually, technically, borderline-illegal business.

Being somebody's spare brain can be a fun and fulfilling job, but it rapidly turns into crap if the boss is an asshole. And Nathan is asshole through and through. And Ruby clearly wants to be something entrpreneurial, not just a downtrodden PA.

brasca wrote:While this strip is not as big of a farce as Menage a 3 there is the possibility that what we are concluding is not what actually happened although the evidence is quite overwhelming.

I'd put it beyond overwhelming, especially as these tend to be very WYSIWYG comics. Nathan making the same noises as he made when definitely screwing Dillon, and clearly having actually got his pants off; Ray's look suggesting some level of stress and confusion; Nathan being a highly opportunist, self-indulgent jerk in the past, and never having shown much sign of wit or subtlety; Helena reacting like a woman who's had to deal with this stuff before... No, I'd bet that Ray's butt is no longer inviolate.

Dude, a character that does nothing but sexually assault people without consequence is not funny or worthwhile.

(I'm no white knight loony, but man, consent does NOT happen when you're in power and demanding favors for recompense. This dude is a rapist. It's gross.)

Well, last time round, it had consequences, to the tune of six film roles and an apartment. Which is kind of the point; he's not a rapist, he's somebody who employs consenting prostitutes.

Spidrift wrote:

brasca wrote:I love attention to details and she looks good when she's not suddenly pulled into one of Nathan's late night contract negotiations. Not a bad job if Nathan never harasses her and the yaoi could be a definite job perk. This could be Ruby in 10 years.

I'd hope not, for Ruby's sake. There's a lot of papering over of Nathan's crappy behaviour involved, which will at best feel sordid, and her thoughts when she was delivering those documents suggest a lot of out-of-hours calls to handle what's actually, technically, borderline-illegal business.

Being somebody's spare brain can be a fun and fulfilling job, but it rapidly turns into crap if the boss is an asshole. And Nathan is asshole through and through. And Ruby clearly wants to be something entrpreneurial, not just a downtrodden PA.

Ruby does not want to follow down the path her sister took which is fine, but if she is not careful she might end up like Helena who seems like she has a reasonably fulfilling job with perks, but has turned a blind eye to so much in the business that she probably has few ethics or scruples left. Of course if she manages her money smartly she might be a potential investor in Ruby's venture.

Spidrift wrote:ISo Ray, who seems genuinely broad-minded, and who respects Dillon, may simply believe what he's been told; that he's bisexual, and that's no big deal.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with being bisexual; but that's still one Hell of a leap - going from awkwardly accepting kissing lessons from a gay man to being the bottom to a sleazy movie producer a few days (weeks?) later.

But, oddly enough, what really bothers me is how excited/happy Ray is at landing the role. You'd think he'd be smart enough to know he didn't get that role due to his superior acting chops, but probably because he was the first actor to bend over that day.

Selling yourself for a movie role is nothing to be proud of.

brasca wrote:Ruby does not want to follow down the path her sister took which is fine, but if she is not careful she might end up like Helena who seems like she has a reasonably fulfilling job with perks, but has turned a blind eye to so much in the business that she probably has few ethics or scruples left. Of course if she manages her money smartly she might be a potential investor in Ruby's venture.

We don't know much about Helena; she may have a career in the movie business carefully mapped out, and be putting up with Nathan's crap for a few years while she builds skills and contacts. On the other hand, she may have worked her way up from a junior-under-secretary position, have hit a glass ceiling, and be putting up with Nathan because, meh, it's a living, and have you seen the job market lately? (Most likely, actually, she's a two-dimensional plot device with no determined back-story at all. But never mind, let's play this game out.) But either way, I doubt that the money in her current job is so good that she can start playing the finance game any time soon.

As for Ruby - she wants some kind of business/managerial career, though she's now being diverted by dreams of movie direction or something. And yes, that could be fulfilling and interesting, or it could divert her into unscrupulous ruthlessness. Really, that's down to luck and her personality. But the worst case for her isn't turning into a time-server like Helena; it's turning into an amoral sleaze like Nathan. Bad behaviour in business isn't related to gender.

Fluffy wrote:Of course, there's nothing wrong with being bisexual; but that's still one Hell of a leap - going from awkwardly accepting kissing lessons from a gay man to being the bottom to a sleazy movie producer a few days (weeks?) later.

But Ray has made that leap, whatever. Did it help that Dillon told him with such conviction that bisexuality was no big deal? Did Nathan pull his "Oprah" BS on him? We just don't know yet. It could be either, neither, or both. Given that Ray has a lot of admiration for Dillon, and hasn't seemed much like an Oprah fan, I'd bet more on the first. But we'll see.

But, oddly enough, what really bothers me is how excited/happy Ray is at landing the role. You'd think he'd be smart enough to know he didn't get that role due to his superior acting chops, but probably because he was the first actor to bend over that day.

You'd think. But Ray has never come across as terribly bright, whereas he does seem terribly obsessed with the idea of a career in showbiz. I'm afraid that's quite realistic; look how some people will humiliate themselves to get on reality TV shows, or for that matter, play the casting couch game. And Amber and Dillon have both done as much within the comic, after all.

Yes, he should be more concerned with actually demonstrating his talent. But a lot of people like to think that they have enough talent, they just need the one big greak that lets them show it to the world.. . Yes, it's terribly sad, really, but I'm afraid that I find it totally believable.

Artemisia wrote:Well, I was thinking in terms of the fact that this is already a fairly niche film (gay superspy). If you want it to stay fairly niche, you cast unknowns. If you want to break out of that niche, you go for someone more known. It's rare that you get an unknown actor in such a role and have it be profitable. It could happen, but Ray had better be a damned good actor for that to happen.

Or this is The Gay Asylum.

Well, that's creepy.

Spidrift wrote:Well, last time round, it had consequences, to the tune of six film roles and an apartment. Which is kind of the point; he's not a rapist, he's somebody who employs consenting prostitutes.

You're being way too kind.

maybe not

in Nathan case, some people choose to accept the "blackmail" for a "mutual benefits purposes"

is not like Nathan gives them pills to fall sleep and than take advantage of that