17-07-15 I did not hear that

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Bambikles
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Re: 17-07-15 I did not hear that

Post by Bambikles »

It's not so much the situation than Julian in himself that creeps me out. It seems he won't take "no" for an answer and will keep insisting while Dillon makes it clear he doesn't want to go along the idea. I reckon he won't give up easily and may be a permanent addition to the cast as Dillon's Sonya (in regars to Sonya's behaviour towards Zii) or worse, Isabelle.

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brasca
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Re: 17-07-15 I did not hear that

Post by brasca »

Readers imagine Dillon's better angel would take the form of Ruby, but I think right now she would be in business mode with a powerpoint presentation detailing why Dillon should have sex with Julian. It would be all the better if devil Ruby and Zii join in for the free yaoi.

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Fluffy
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Re: 17-07-15 I did not hear that

Post by Fluffy »

I don't know - maybe it's different for us girls; but I know that I would be reacting very much like Dillon if any of my former wards were to look to me to take their virginity once they reached adulthood. Depending how long you babysit a kid, you're essentially watching the child grow up as if they were your own kid or a younger sibling - so the idea sexing them when they're old enough is just super squicky; which is why I don't find this particular arc to be endearing/cute like others do.
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DrAngryEd
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Re: 17-07-15 I did not hear that

Post by DrAngryEd »

Julian, my boy: be gentle, win him over three dates at least. Then he'll realize you are a good option as a bf.
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Whisky-Tango-Foxtrot
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Re: 17-07-15 I did not hear that

Post by Whisky-Tango-Foxtrot »

You know, I'll bet that Ruby was just the sort of serious, responsible teenager who could and did have a great reputation and a great (for a teenager) income as a much-sought-after babysitter. I'm sort of hoping that Dillon has a chance to explain his feelings about Julian to Ruby in a way she can relate to; it might actually turn into a great bonding experience for the two of them.

(And then, of course, they'd have to collaborate on a plot to get Julian laid... ;) )

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chupacabra555
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Re: 17-07-15 I did not hear that

Post by chupacabra555 »

So, what; the age difference is like 5 years at most?

I don't really see a problem, other than that Dillon still sees him as a 'little boy' (although remember, they were still pretty much close to the same age even when Julian WAS a little boy [who has someone of nearly the same age serve as their child's baby sitter anyway?]).

If age of consent is a problem, according to Wikipedia the minimum age is 16 in Canada (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_c ... th_America) , so Julian is quite 'legal' (man, this would just still seem all kinds of creepy [and yet still legal] if it were 'Juliet' and a Hetero-Dillon, huh? :-? )

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Spidrift
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Re: 17-07-15 I did not hear that

Post by Spidrift »

Fluffy wrote:Am I the only one super creeped out by this?
No. Well, I'm certainly somewhat creeped out. The whole idea seems somewhat creepy, and the fact that Dillon clearly feels exactly that way, and has said so, but Julian is still pushing it... Well, like I said, the writers have finally got me feeling sorry for Dillon.

(I've often found him annoying in the past, but whether or not that was intentional on the part of the writers, they've always done a fair job of not making him look too pervy. The sight of him fighting not to cross that line is really rather likeable. Now all we need is him recognising that his approach to Gary and Ray has occasionally come somewhere almost close to Julian's approach to him.)
Don Alexander wrote:Early 20s? Is Dillon babbling?

Pretty sure he - and much of the rest of the main cast - are in the 25 - 30 zone. So he probably would have been in his mid- to late teens when Julian was a kid (not a little child) to be babysat. Which is your very typical age to be a babysitter.

This makes it sound like Dillon is just a few years older than Julian, which would make the whole thing really stupid.
Yeah, I was wondering about that myself. I put it down to Dillon's vanity. He'll probably call himself "early 20s" until the eve of his big-three-zero birthday.
Don Alexander wrote:
lordoffiling wrote:Dillon was probably pretty hot when he was a teenager
No, not really.
I'm sure that some people would consider that fairly cute. And judging by other flashbacks we've seen, Dillon matured to his current shape not long after.
brasca wrote:Readers imagine Dillon's better angel would take the form of Ruby, but I think right now she would be in business mode with a powerpoint presentation detailing why Dillon should have sex with Julian. It would be all the better if devil Ruby and Zii join in for the free yaoi.
Actually, I could imagine both Dillon's shoulder angel and shoulder devil looking like Ruby these days. Remember when Ruby called Dillon out for vamping Ray - then looked really unhappy when she realised that she'd talked herself out of another free yaoi show. Ruby was all super-ego when she first appeared, and has just had her id unlocked; she could play either role for Dillon, who tends to live in the moment.

And of course, she herself needs to develop a healthy working ego to balance the other two personae.
Fluffy wrote:I don't know - maybe it's different for us girls; but I know that I would be reacting very much like Dillon if any of my former wards were to look to me to take their virginity once they reached adulthood. Depending how long you babysit a kid, you're essentially watching the child grow up as if they were your own kid or a younger sibling - so the idea sexing them when they're old enough is just super squicky; which is why I don't find this particular arc to be endearing/cute like others do.
So far as I remember, I was only ever babysat by my older siblings, and I only ever babysat family members. So you can imagine that I can't relate at all to any ideas about babysitter/ward fixations.
Whisky-Tango-Foxtrot wrote:You know, I'll bet that Ruby was just the sort of serious, responsible teenager who could and did have a great reputation and a great (for a teenager) income as a much-sought-after babysitter. I'm sort of hoping that Dillon has a chance to explain his feelings about Julian to Ruby in a way she can relate to; it might actually turn into a great bonding experience for the two of them.

(And then, of course, they'd have to collaborate on a plot to get Julian laid... ;) )
I do think that Dillon could get the point through to Ruby; he'd just have to flip her from id to super-ego mode. And I can just imagine Ruby introducing Julian to yaoi, though she'd probably have to be rather clinical about it.
chupacabra555 wrote:I don't really see a problem, other than that Dillon still sees him as a 'little boy' ...
That's not an "other than", it's a huge stonking squick-inducing stop sign of a no-no.
Last edited by Spidrift on Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 17-07-15 I did not hear that

Post by Artemisia »

I don't understand those who find this arc creepy. . .

How many of us had crushes on teachers or babysitters growing up? I had a huge crush on my eighth grade teacher. Julian is the one who obviously has a crush on Dillon and Dillon is being blunt- he does not want to go there. Even though Julian is past the age of consent, Dillon feels like he would be violating some level of trust. Dillon isn't just showing remarkable self-restraint, he's showing a very real reaction. The problem for him is that there is next to nothing to stop him and Julian from being a couple. It isn't as if Dillon manipulated Julian into anything.

As a couple, this is probably disastrous in the mid to long range because Julian's view of Dillon is not of a person. Julian has likely created all sorts of stories around Dillon that are untrue. It isn't creepy, but it is kind of scary because it could really hurt Julian.
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chupacabra555
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Re: 17-07-15 I did not hear that

Post by chupacabra555 »

Personally I don't find the situation creepy. However, in the 'alternate universe' situation I described, I think many would find it unsettling just how society in general views relationships between still-in-their-teen females and over 20 males.

It may be due to the protective nature many feel towards women, or the general inappropriate nature of an older male leering at a much younger woman (although again, if the situation were reversed, the age difference would still remain the same).

As an example, although not quite equivalent, look at stories where you read an older teacher having romantic/sexual relations with a student.

When the teacher is male and the student is female, there seems to be an almost universal reaction of "That's Wrong!!!".

However, it seems that when the teacher is female and the student is male, there doesn't seem to be as strong a negative reaction, at least among males (Doesn't make it any more right or appropriate, though).

Double Standard? Yes, but that seems to be the way of the world.

When it comes to the case of Dillon and Julian, though, I say "Carry On" :)
They're both adults, and close to the same age. Its just Dillon can't get over seeing Julian as a 'child' because he babysat him a few years ago, but I'm guessing he'll get over it.

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lordoffiling
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Re: 17-07-15 I did not hear that

Post by lordoffiling »

chupacabra555 wrote:
Double Standard? Yes, but that seems to be the way of the world.
I was just thinkin' that. "It's called 'The Double Standard.' Don't knock it. We got the long end of the stick on that one." - Hank Hill
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Optimus Kate
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Re: 17-07-15 I did not hear that

Post by Optimus Kate »

I don't find this situation creepy either. Maybe the fact that Julian keeps pushing it while Dillon resists is kinda weird, but the situation itself? Nah. I think it's perfectly normal for young people to fixate on someone like this. One of my first crushes was on my teenage girl babysitter. I didn't grow up dreaming of her being my first but I'm sure it's not too uncommon for kids to hold on to those first crushes.

My question is how did Julian know that Dillon is gay and would want to be his first? I mean that's kind of a risk.

Of course this is Giz-verse so the odds were probably pretty good. :P

(Julian can get it. Meow.)

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wiseguy
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Re: 17-07-15 I did not hear that

Post by wiseguy »

wiseguy wrote:
BTW

interesting that Dillon "found himself" at college and not in High School and his best friend Ray had no idea Dillon was going to be gay, yet Julian not only remembered fondly his babysitter and decided to save himself for him when he hit puberty, but seems to have suspected that Dillon might be gay and not simply hope for it? :-?
Kate, looks like we are thinking the same
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Spidrift
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Re: 17-07-15 I did not hear that

Post by Spidrift »

chupacabra555 wrote:Personally I don't find the situation creepy. However, in the 'alternate universe' situation I described, I think many would find it unsettling just how society in general views relationships between still-in-their-teen females and over 20 males.
Please don't bring crap about the "double standard" into this. The issue is that X, an adult, will more or less inevitably perceive Y, a younger individual, as a child - and yet someone (in this case Y himself) is trying to push them towards a sexual relationship. That's frickin creepy whatever the genders; X is being pushed into what he'll feel is emotionally paedophilia. Julian needs to be told to think about what he's trying on.

(And yes, Ruby needs to be told to lay off too. That resolution can come later.)

Just for a bonus, in this case, a relationship between them would at least stress the half-plus-seven rule. Which isn't a cast-iron law, but is a fairly good guideline.
Optimus Kate wrote:I think it's perfectly normal for young people to fixate on someone like this. One of my first crushes was on my teenage girl babysitter. I didn't grow up dreaming of her being my first but I'm sure it's not too uncommon for kids to hold on to those first crushes.
Childhood crushes are perfectly normal. Acting on them is almost always creepy. Hell, one of the most common childhood crushes is a daughter's crush in her father.
My question is how did Julian know that Dillon is gay and would want to be his first?
I suspect that Dillon's closet was probably about as opaque as Lavali's. His family probably knew before he did.

And I think that the idea that Dillon will and should "get over" this sudden outburst of restraint and good taste misses the big theme with this comic, badly. It's about three broken people accidentally helping each other to become complete human beings. It's Ruby whose role is to loosen up and shed a few inhibitions. Dillon's dramatic role is to get the hang of self-restraint - to learn how it works and how it can form part of a proper personality - while Amber's is to learn how to function in ordinary society. Dillon is perfectly capable of loosening up and having fun; hell, he has a black belt in the art. He's currently hitting his limit and being reminded of the need to change and grow.
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Optimus Kate
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Re: 17-07-15 I did not hear that

Post by Optimus Kate »

Spidrift wrote:Hell, one of the most common childhood crushes is a daughter's crush in her father.
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Re: 17-07-15 I did not hear that

Post by Artemisia »

I believe Spidrift may be talking about the Oedipus/Electra Complex. Which, in all honesty, I've never fully bought. I don't recall ever having a crush on my father or my mother. I had a crush on several teachers. My first crush was this cute girl in 4th grade. I remember day dreaming about being a princess in shining armor saving her.
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