12-06-15 Good memories

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Spidrift
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Re: 12-06-15 Good memories

Post by Spidrift »

brasca wrote:Ray fully intends to be seen whereas the victims of upskirting do not.
Yeah. Women do not generally consent to complete strangers looking up their skirts in public. Taking photographs merely makes the insult permanent. Ray knew that Ruby was in the room, and consented to her seeing him kiss Dillon. It was still wrong of her to photograph it without permission, but there's no real equivalence.
brasca wrote:Moreover, it is possible that Ruby took the pictures and then showed them to Ray so he could see what he looks like when he is kissing Dillon. She might have complimented him on being so convincing and that this is what it will look like on TV. She then might have offered to delete the pictures and when he did not object she kept it.
It's possible, and as someone who instinctively likes Ruby, I'd like to believe it, but something tells me that it wasn't the case. But we'll see. What might be interesting would be if she, say, confessed to Ray, apologised - but then asked if she could use the pictures for her little commercial project. Which would fit what we saw in her conversation with Zii, and show that she had still kept some ethics, while being tempted to stretch them. And it'd also doubtless boggle the heck out of Ray, but hey, he might be tempted by the prospect of a commission and some publicity for his acting career...
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brasca
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Re: 12-06-15 Good memories

Post by brasca »

Milkmaid79 wrote:
brasca wrote:
Milkmaid79 wrote:She's a deeply shitty person regardless-it's the equivalent of a creep taking an upskirt photo, as long as he kept said photo to himself for personal satisfaction.
There is great degree of difference in taking a picture of Ray who is getting acting lessons from Dillon so he can convincingly portray a gay man on stage or screen and upskirt pictures. Ray fully intends to be seen whereas the victims of upskirting do not. Your moral equivalency is stretched pretty far, but the only similarity is consent. Moreover, it is possible that Ruby took the pictures and then showed them to Ray so he could see what he looks like when he is kissing Dillon. She might have complimented him on being so convincing and that this is what it will look like on TV. She then might have offered to delete the pictures and when he did not object she kept it. People were not pleased when it appeared that she was going to buy Zii's candid pictures until she raised concerns in the next strip about whether those were taken with consent. She may be a little more corrupted hanging out with Dillon and Zii, but she still has her principles.
Really? I recall reading that he wanted to work on his kissing technique in general, not that he wanted to play gay men on stage (or have photographic evidence of him kissing Dillon). As for possibilities, it seems like you're reaching to try to keep that halo on Ruby's head. By that logic why have the 'dramatic' reveal of the photos if Ray knew and didn't object to their existence? Wouldn't Dillon already know, since there would be no harm in talking about it openly among the three of them?

Why should 'the only similarity is consent' be brushed off as if consent isn't important?
Because in this case the matter of consent is pictures of Ray doing something he is likely to perform as a professional actor which he is far more likely to grant than a woman told that her underwear was photographed by someone with a hidden camera.

And while Ray wants to improve his kissing technique it is largely to further his acting career so if he should be in a scene where he has to kiss a man he wants to be convincing so he can kill 2 birds with one stone thanks to Dillon's tutoring.

Admittedly, getting consent from Ray is a matter of speculation, but it is possible that while Dillon was distracted she asked Ray and he said yes and for the sake of comedy her taking pictures was not revealed until the last panel.

Ruby's halo may be a little crooked after today, but that hardly makes her a "deeply shitty person" especially when you do not have all the facts. That is a tier reserved for Nathan or Yvan.

JoybuzzerX
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Re: 12-06-15 Good memories

Post by JoybuzzerX »

Hmmm...watching many a popular movie (I love the movies!) tell me which popular movie had the male actors kissing? It took years for it to be done on Modern Family.

I'd say her taking the picture is on the level of people who take pictures of others in situations they normally wouldn't want to have plastered over the internet and then making a meme out of it :p

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brasca
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Re: 12-06-15 Good memories

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This takes place in Montreal, Canada. They are a little more progressive about such things than us Yankees.

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Spidrift
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Re: 12-06-15 Good memories

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JoybuzzerX wrote:I'd say her taking the picture is on the level of people who take pictures of others in situations they normally wouldn't want to have plastered over the internet and then making a meme out of it :p
But she hasn't plastered anything all over the Internet, yet - and I'm still confident that she won't and wouldn't (at least without consent). That would be a whole separate, and very large, moral slippage - and much more of an extrovert act than fits Ruby's personality.

The only way I could really see that happening would be if some third party got into Ruby's 'phone - and then, like I said before, I bet that certain shots of Ruby's legs would also be in the mix...

Sneaking shots of attractive people (doing anything) for strictly private consumption is a bit shoddy, but is strictly a private matter, and causes a lot less pain and embarrassment than sticking them on a Website. That's why Dillon and Zii, with their much larger collections of sneaked photos, can still just about be sympathetic characters.
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boredsilly
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Re: 12-06-15 Good memories

Post by boredsilly »

I'm not sure about Ray. He could be the nice guy he appears to be, or he could be using his old friend. I want to follow Ray home to make sure he's not married or has a girlfriend. I don't trust him yet.
Ray- injured thus retiring hockey player, tracked down his old actor friend, used him for private acting lessons and a way in with Amber. Surprised he hasn't gotten Dillion or Amber to suggest him for a minor acting role.

The photo could be spun into a great opportunity for Ray. Who is this man who got between on-screen couple/off-screen 'roommates' Amber and Dillion? Add in a photo of Amber and Ray, and the love triangle becomes more interesting. The publicity of a gossip page would be a great way for Ray to get his name out as an actor.
Yes, as a hockey player Ray has had his name on the Sports' page. He's trying to start a new career and it's not as a jock or Sports' newscaster, but as an actor.

Milkmaid79
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Re: 12-06-15 Good memories

Post by Milkmaid79 »

Spidrift wrote:
JoybuzzerX wrote:I'd say her taking the picture is on the level of people who take pictures of others in situations they normally wouldn't want to have plastered over the internet and then making a meme out of it :p
But she hasn't plastered anything all over the Internet, yet - and I'm still confident that she won't and wouldn't (at least without consent). That would be a whole separate, and very large, moral slippage - and much more of an extrovert act than fits Ruby's personality.

The only way I could really see that happening would be if some third party got into Ruby's 'phone - and then, like I said before, I bet that certain shots of Ruby's legs would also be in the mix...

Sneaking shots of attractive people (doing anything) for strictly private consumption is a bit shoddy, but is strictly a private matter, and causes a lot less pain and embarrassment than sticking them on a Website. That's why Dillon and Zii, with their much larger collections of sneaked photos, can still just about be sympathetic characters.
Better tell all the creeps to make sure to take those photos themselves instead of using the internet.
brasca wrote:
Milkmaid79 wrote: Really? I recall reading that he wanted to work on his kissing technique in general, not that he wanted to play gay men on stage (or have photographic evidence of him kissing Dillon). As for possibilities, it seems like you're reaching to try to keep that halo on Ruby's head. By that logic why have the 'dramatic' reveal of the photos if Ray knew and didn't object to their existence? Wouldn't Dillon already know, since there would be no harm in talking about it openly among the three of them?

Why should 'the only similarity is consent' be brushed off as if consent isn't important?
Because in this case the matter of consent is pictures of Ray doing something he is likely to perform as a professional actor which he is far more likely to grant than a woman told that her underwear was photographed by someone with a hidden camera.

And while Ray wants to improve his kissing technique it is largely to further his acting career so if he should be in a scene where he has to kiss a man he wants to be convincing so he can kill 2 birds with one stone thanks to Dillon's tutoring.

Admittedly, getting consent from Ray is a matter of speculation, but it is possible that while Dillon was distracted she asked Ray and he said yes and for the sake of comedy her taking pictures was not revealed until the last panel.

Ruby's halo may be a little crooked after today, but that hardly makes her a "deeply shitty person" especially when you do not have all the facts. That is a tier reserved for Nathan or Yvan.
It's also possible that she didn't bother to ask permission because her yaoi fantasies are overriding her alleged ethics. As for comedy, I suppose Zii taking photos of Gary while he slept was hilarious as well?

No one had 'all the facts' in regards to Yvan but that didn't stop them from deciding he was one of the biggest creeps to ever appear in a Giz strip. At least he was open about trying to bed the girls rather than violate someone's privacy while self-righteously attacking her sister for actually having a healthy libido.

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Re: 12-06-15 Good memories

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boredsilly wrote:I'm not sure about Ray. He could be the nice guy he appears to be, or he could be using his old friend. I want to follow Ray home to make sure he's not married or has a girlfriend. I don't trust him yet.
These comics don't tend to do "Big twist: character completely unlike how they appear" plots. They're pretty ... WYSIWYG, really. But I guess that there's a first time for everything.
boredsilly wrote:Ray- injured thus retiring hockey player, tracked down his old actor friend, used him for private acting lessons and a way in with Amber. Surprised he hasn't gotten Dillion or Amber to suggest him for a minor acting role.
Give him time; he's only been around for a couple of days. And it's not like they have huge influence in the business. Not that asking friends for an intro to the business would be a terrible crime.

My own guess is that Ray is exactly as he's been presented - nice guy, bit naive if anything - but also, as Dillon diagnosed, a little bit of a latent bisexual. Then the twist I'm anticipating is Nathan bumping into Ray, picking up on that naive ambition and also maybe sensing that latent potential - and offering him the Gay Crimefighter role, implicitly in exchange for ... well, a shared trip to the spa, maybe. Cue Dillon and Amber desperately trying to save Ray from Nathan's casting couch without admitting to having been there themselves.

But that's a wild-ass guess, not a prediction.
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wiseguy
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Re: 12-06-15 Good memories

Post by wiseguy »

what spiddrift said is possible, Nathan offering him the gay super-hero role sometime in the future

at worse, but unlikely......... Ray already knew Dillon was gay, and is using him to learn how to act gay for that role and as a bonus, he gets to be with the famous porn actress Amber
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JoybuzzerX
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Re: 12-06-15 Good memories

Post by JoybuzzerX »

wiseguy wrote:what spiddrift said is possible, Nathan offering him the gay super-hero role sometime in the future

at worse, but unlikely......... Ray already knew Dillon was gay, and is using him to learn how to act gay for that role and as a bonus, he gets to be with the famous porn actress Amber
I thought the comic already established that Ray didn't know (not sure if he does now) that Dillion was gay.

Milkmaid79
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Re: 12-06-15 Good memories

Post by Milkmaid79 »

Spidrift wrote:
boredsilly wrote:I'm not sure about Ray. He could be the nice guy he appears to be, or he could be using his old friend. I want to follow Ray home to make sure he's not married or has a girlfriend. I don't trust him yet.
These comics don't tend to do "Big twist: character completely unlike how they appear" plots. They're pretty ... WYSIWYG, really. But I guess that there's a first time for everything.
So Ruby was always meant to be the sort that violates the privacy of others? I suppose I should look for the subtle foreshadowing.

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Re: 12-06-15 Good memories

Post by wiseguy »

JoybuzzerX wrote:
wiseguy wrote:what spiddrift said is possible, Nathan offering him the gay super-hero role sometime in the future

at worse, but unlikely......... Ray already knew Dillon was gay, and is using him to learn how to act gay for that role and as a bonus, he gets to be with the famous porn actress Amber
I thought the comic already established that Ray didn't know (not sure if he does now) that Dillion was gay.
it was "established" by his word that he did not know when they met at studio after a long time

but writers can say in the future he lied, IF THEY WANT TO.........but so far they have never gone that route, and is the reason I said "unlikely"

and Milkmaid, technically it was established when Ruby stayed quiet while Dill and Jerzy were having fun and she got quiet hot
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Spidrift
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Re: 12-06-15 Good memories

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JoybuzzerX wrote:I thought the comic already established that Ray didn't know (not sure if he does now) that Dillion was gay.
Does Dillon saying "I'm gay" count as him finding out?
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Re: 12-06-15 Good memories

Post by Don Alexander »

Maybe a bit OT, but why should Ray get a gay crime fighter/super-hero role?

That just leads to "Why can't they allow gay actors to take gay roles!" blog posts. :P
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Spidrift
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Re: 12-06-15 Good memories

Post by Spidrift »

As St. Larry said, "Try acting, dear boy."

There may be gay actors who get pissed off with straight rivals taking the good gay roles, but they're surely balanced by the gay actors who get pissed off with stereotyping, because that means being stuck just in gay roles, and would like more work even if it does involve kissing a woman once in a while. And if that means letting a non-gay actor take a gay role once in a while, well, that's the price you pay.

Anyway, Ray can evidently play gay very well, and could deliver completely straight-faced interviews in which he talks about having a bisexual side which he's been exploring recently. And he's good-looking and athletic (more so than the slimline pretty-boy Dillon, who sometimes boasts about his lack of hunkiness). And most importantly, Nathan may think that he's in with a chance there.
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