To be fair, lots of double standards go on in these forumsSpidrift wrote:Note that we all take Sonya's "Not a Lesbian" lines as evidence of her comedy-idiot characterisation, and laugh at her for that. But when Jerzy demonstrates just the same sort of idiot denial, we have either to take it as sad or say that he's allowed to define his own sexuality and nobody else can tell him what he is.themacnut wrote:Yeah, it's like Sonya insisting she's "not a lesbian" despite the fact that her most recent sex partners have been female (although technically she's more bi than lesbian, since she had a boyfriend before she met Zii and willingly had sex with Gary even while pining after Zii).
Well, SDB is a tiny bit more serious than Ma3, a lot of the time. Still, there's a hint of a double standard there.
15-05-15 Dating my boy side
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Re: 15-05-15 Dating my boy side
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Re: 15-05-15 Dating my boy side
Which I thought was obvious.wiseguy wrote:when i put "girl" in this case I meant "body with vagina" which is why I put in parenthesis talking birth wise as we talking mostly about specifically about ones like Angel and not about "born guys(penis) who are gender fluid"
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Re: 15-05-15 Dating my boy side
Which is not the proper term, which is my point. What matters is Angel's gender identity.wiseguy wrote:when i put "girl" in this case I meant "body with vagina" which is why I put in parenthesis talking birth wise as we talking mostly about specifically about ones like Angel and not about "born guys(penis) who are gender fluid"
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Re: 15-05-15 Dating my boy side
only if we talking about angel, in this case we talking about Jerzy
I know you want to spotlight how angel feels, but as much as it might not seem fair.........................
no matter if a tomato feels like a vegetable, and is used as a vegetable by a cook(Angel), it is still technically a fruit in the view of a scientist(Jerzy)
person A sees person B in a way that is different from how B sees B, that would always be a fact, you can't force A to see B in the same way B sees itself
person B sees person A in a way that is different from how A sees A, that would always be a fact, you can't force B to see A in the same way A sees itself
and A would see relationship AB in a different way than B would see relationship AB even if it is the same thing
I know you want to spotlight how angel feels, but as much as it might not seem fair.........................
no matter if a tomato feels like a vegetable, and is used as a vegetable by a cook(Angel), it is still technically a fruit in the view of a scientist(Jerzy)
person A sees person B in a way that is different from how B sees B, that would always be a fact, you can't force A to see B in the same way B sees itself
person B sees person A in a way that is different from how A sees A, that would always be a fact, you can't force B to see A in the same way A sees itself
and A would see relationship AB in a different way than B would see relationship AB even if it is the same thing
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Re: 15-05-15 Dating my boy side
Scientist do not really have a problem with genderfluidity or any type of gender indentity that i know of. But I got what you meant.
Anyway, if your point is that it might be a deal breaker because Angel possibly has a vagina, then say that. But don't say something like "genderfluid girl", which can be viewed as problematic.
Anyway, if your point is that it might be a deal breaker because Angel possibly has a vagina, then say that. But don't say something like "genderfluid girl", which can be viewed as problematic.
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Re: 15-05-15 Dating my boy side
that is the thing, it is not "just the vagina"
as i said from what I infer
Dillon is perfect(as long as he does not go black canary/Dinah), Matt is not(too masculine personality), Senna is not (too feminine looking, big boobs), Yuki and Kiley are not(kind of look tomboyish but they have vagina), Zii is not(medium length hair, a lil too masculine personality, has vagina), Didi and Amber are not(too feminine looking and vagina),
and here I am making a distinction with names intentionally, besides the obvious vagina issue for both
Angel is not because he is too masculine personality
Angie is not because even thought it has "feminine personality" she is too feminine looking
Jerzy(besides vagina issue) would love for Angel/Angie to "look like Angel" but have the "Angie personality"
as i said from what I infer
Dillon is perfect(as long as he does not go black canary/Dinah), Matt is not(too masculine personality), Senna is not (too feminine looking, big boobs), Yuki and Kiley are not(kind of look tomboyish but they have vagina), Zii is not(medium length hair, a lil too masculine personality, has vagina), Didi and Amber are not(too feminine looking and vagina),
and here I am making a distinction with names intentionally, besides the obvious vagina issue for both
Angel is not because he is too masculine personality
Angie is not because even thought it has "feminine personality" she is too feminine looking
Jerzy(besides vagina issue) would love for Angel/Angie to "look like Angel" but have the "Angie personality"
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Re: 15-05-15 Dating my boy side
She may identify as both, but when Jerzy gets naked with her female parts will in fact be evident. Hence my statement above, she can be gender fluid all she likes but that will not extend to her actual genitals. Once the clothes come off that illusion is broken.Cortez wrote:Not really, since Angel is gender fluid. So she's identifies as both.themacnut wrote:Yeah, i and presently has sex with Angel despite clear evidence of her being of the female gender.
In fact Angel seems to identify as male most of the time, seeing as they prefer to be called Angel instead of Angie.
Check out this space opera superhero webcomic: The Vanguard
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Re: 15-05-15 Dating my boy side
Except it's not an "l
illusion", it's how they are. They are genderfluid.
Genitals are irrelevant to gender identity. Jerzy has also slept with Angel several times, so it's not that big of a deal.
I think wiseguy has a point in it has more to do with attitude and personality.
illusion", it's how they are. They are genderfluid.
Genitals are irrelevant to gender identity. Jerzy has also slept with Angel several times, so it's not that big of a deal.
I think wiseguy has a point in it has more to do with attitude and personality.
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Re: 15-05-15 Dating my boy side
FOR THE PERSON that has gender fluidity is irrelevant
BUT NOT FOR the people that gendefluid person deals with, can be irrelevant, it can be relevant
in the case of Senna (Transsexual, M to Female)
some people see Senna as a girl that happens to have a penis
some people see her as a guy that "feels like a woman"
some people see her as a him, they don't care how "he feels"
some people see her as a transsexual (not a female, not a male)
and even some people can see Senna as a she, but see Bruce Jenner as a he because they judge it by "physical aspect"
some people can deal with Angel's "changes"
while others see Angel "just one way"
and even Angel herself
we don't know yet exactly why
it might be that as Angel, he wishes he had a penis and sees himself as gay and as Angie she is Okay with the vagina and sees herself as heterosexual
OR
it can be a case of "sometimes angel feels like being a masculine personality" and "sometimes angel feels like being a feminine personality" and Angel is in both occasions happy with having a vagina
BUT NOT FOR the people that gendefluid person deals with, can be irrelevant, it can be relevant
in the case of Senna (Transsexual, M to Female)
some people see Senna as a girl that happens to have a penis
some people see her as a guy that "feels like a woman"
some people see her as a him, they don't care how "he feels"
some people see her as a transsexual (not a female, not a male)
and even some people can see Senna as a she, but see Bruce Jenner as a he because they judge it by "physical aspect"
some people can deal with Angel's "changes"
while others see Angel "just one way"
and even Angel herself
we don't know yet exactly why
it might be that as Angel, he wishes he had a penis and sees himself as gay and as Angie she is Okay with the vagina and sees herself as heterosexual
OR
it can be a case of "sometimes angel feels like being a masculine personality" and "sometimes angel feels like being a feminine personality" and Angel is in both occasions happy with having a vagina
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Re: 15-05-15 Dating my boy side
What the person identifies is the only things that matters, what other people think indeed is irrelevant.
And anyone calling a transwoman a "he" is clearly being disrespectful and transphobic.
And anyone calling a transwoman a "he" is clearly being disrespectful and transphobic.
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Re: 15-05-15 Dating my boy side
Not to the other people it isn't.Cortez wrote:What the person identifies is the only things that matters, what other people think indeed is irrelevant.
And Jerzy for one has made it clear, repeatedly, that he thinks of Angel as a woman. It doesn't matter how awful that makes him in the eyes of a postmodern Miss Manners; it's what his hindbrain is telling him, and it'll drive his reactions.
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Spidrift
"Brevior vita est quam pro futumentibus negotium agendo."
-- Motto of Hogshead Publishing of fond memory, and wise words to set your Foes List by.
Avatar misappropriated from the wonderful XKCD.
Spidrift
"Brevior vita est quam pro futumentibus negotium agendo."
-- Motto of Hogshead Publishing of fond memory, and wise words to set your Foes List by.
Avatar misappropriated from the wonderful XKCD.
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Re: 15-05-15 Dating my boy side
Then the other people are being insensitive dicks.
And Jerzy seems to respect Angel's just fine even if he isn't always comfortable with it. He's not an ass about it.
And Jerzy seems to respect Angel's just fine even if he isn't always comfortable with it. He's not an ass about it.
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Re: 15-05-15 Dating my boy side
just because some people can't help but still see Bruce Jenner as a guy, does not mean they do not respect Bruce's(has not changed name yet) life choice (and some who say her are laughing at her, use of her or him are not indicators of respect or lack of)
just because I do not think Roseanne Arnold is physically pretty does not mean I am wrong if she sees herself as physically beautiful
just because I do not think Roseanne Arnold is physically pretty does not mean I am wrong if she sees herself as physically beautiful
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Re: 15-05-15 Dating my boy side
So people should have sex with other people to whom they're not physically attracted, because otherwise they'd be insensitive?Cortez wrote:Then the other people are being insensitive dicks.
Jerzy is clearly trying (admirably) hard to be polite to and respectful of an old friend. But even so, he keeps talking about her as female (comparing her to the female protagonist of that movie, for example), to an extent that might slightly annoy Angel if Angel wasn't rather obsessed with him. The fact that he is still perfectly capable of finding Angel sexually attractive, despite reading Angel as female, is exactly what says to me that he's bisexual for any useful definition of the word, despite his denial.Cortez wrote:And Jerzy seems to respect Angel's just fine even if he isn't always comfortable with it. He's not an ass about it.
(At least as bisexual as Sonya, maybe...)
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Spidrift
"Brevior vita est quam pro futumentibus negotium agendo."
-- Motto of Hogshead Publishing of fond memory, and wise words to set your Foes List by.
Avatar misappropriated from the wonderful XKCD.
Spidrift
"Brevior vita est quam pro futumentibus negotium agendo."
-- Motto of Hogshead Publishing of fond memory, and wise words to set your Foes List by.
Avatar misappropriated from the wonderful XKCD.
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Re: 15-05-15 Dating my boy side
Jerzy "sight wise" and taking aside the penis(which it seems is where he has one of the issues with Angel/Angie)
seems to like someone who has a tomboyish look and have a feminine personality, and that is another issue with Angel/Angie
as Angel = no feminine personality
as Angie = less of a tomboyish look
Jerzy is complicated(or so far the writers have put him like that)
seems to like someone who has a tomboyish look and have a feminine personality, and that is another issue with Angel/Angie
as Angel = no feminine personality
as Angie = less of a tomboyish look
Jerzy is complicated(or so far the writers have put him like that)