15-05-15 Dating my boy side

[JoybuzzerX]

Yeah, it's like Sonya insisting she's "not a lesbian" despite the fact that her most recent sex partners have been female (although technically she's more bi than lesbian, since she had a boyfriend before she met Zii and willingly had sex with Gary even while pining after Zii).

Note that we all take Sonya's "Not a Lesbian" lines as evidence of her comedy-idiot characterisation, and laugh at her for that. But when Jerzy demonstrates just the same sort of idiot denial, we have either to take it as sad or say that he's allowed to define his own sexuality and nobody else can tell him what he is.

Well, SDB is a tiny bit more serious than Ma3, a lot of the time. Still, there's a hint of a double standard there.

To be fair, lots of double standards go on in these forums

[JoybuzzerX]

when i put "girl" in this case I meant "body with vagina" which is why I put in parenthesis talking birth wise as we talking mostly about specifically about ones like Angel and not about "born guys(penis) who are gender fluid"

Which I thought was obvious.

[Cortez]

when i put "girl" in this case I meant "body with vagina" which is why I put in parenthesis talking birth wise as we talking mostly about specifically about ones like Angel and not about "born guys(penis) who are gender fluid"

Which is not the proper term, which is my point. What matters is Angel's gender identity.

[wiseguy]

only if we talking about angel, in this case we talking about Jerzy

I know you want to spotlight how angel feels, but as much as it might not seem fair.........................

no matter if a tomato feels like a vegetable, and is used as a vegetable by a cook(Angel), it is still technically a fruit in the view of a scientist(Jerzy)

person A sees person B in a way that is different from how B sees B, that would always be a fact, you can't force A to see B in the same way B sees itself
person B sees person A in a way that is different from how A sees A, that would always be a fact, you can't force B to see A in the same way A sees itself

and A would see relationship AB in a different way than B would see relationship AB even if it is the same thing

[Cortez]

Scientist do not really have a problem with genderfluidity or any type of gender indentity that i know of. But I got what you meant.

Anyway, if your point is that it might be a deal breaker because Angel possibly has a vagina, then say that. But don't say something like "genderfluid girl", which can be viewed as problematic.

[wiseguy]

that is the thing, it is not "just the vagina"

as i said from what I infer

Dillon is perfect(as long as he does not go black canary/Dinah), Matt is not(too masculine personality), Senna is not (too feminine looking, big boobs), Yuki and Kiley are not(kind of look tomboyish but they have vagina), Zii is not(medium length hair, a lil too masculine personality, has vagina), Didi and Amber are not(too feminine looking and vagina),

and here I am making a distinction with names intentionally, besides the obvious vagina issue for both

Angel is not because he is too masculine personality
Angie is not because even thought it has "feminine personality" she is too feminine looking

Jerzy(besides vagina issue) would love for Angel/Angie to "look like Angel" but have the "Angie personality"

[themacnut]

Yeah, i and presently has sex with Angel despite clear evidence of her being of the female gender.

Not really, since Angel is gender fluid. So she's identifies as both.

In fact Angel seems to identify as male most of the time, seeing as they prefer to be called Angel instead of Angie.

She may identify as both, but when Jerzy gets naked with her female parts will in fact be evident. Hence my statement above, she can be gender fluid all she likes but that will not extend to her actual genitals. Once the clothes come off that illusion is broken.

[Cortez]

Except it's not an "l
illusion", it's how they are. They are genderfluid.

Genitals are irrelevant to gender identity. Jerzy has also slept with Angel several times, so it's not that big of a deal.

I think wiseguy has a point in it has more to do with attitude and personality.

[wiseguy]

FOR THE PERSON that has gender fluidity is irrelevant

BUT NOT FOR the people that gendefluid person deals with, can be irrelevant, it can be relevant

in the case of Senna (Transsexual, M to Female)

some people see Senna as a girl that happens to have a penis

some people see her as a guy that "feels like a woman"

some people see her as a him, they don't care how "he feels"

some people see her as a transsexual (not a female, not a male)

and even some people can see Senna as a she, but see Bruce Jenner as a he because they judge it by "physical aspect"

some people can deal with Angel's "changes"

while others see Angel "just one way"


and even Angel herself

we don't know yet exactly why

it might be that as Angel, he wishes he had a penis and sees himself as gay and as Angie she is Okay with the vagina and sees herself as heterosexual

OR

it can be a case of "sometimes angel feels like being a masculine personality" and "sometimes angel feels like being a feminine personality" and Angel is in both occasions happy with having a vagina

[Cortez]

What the person identifies is the only things that matters, what other people think indeed is irrelevant.

And anyone calling a transwoman a "he" is clearly being disrespectful and transphobic.

[Spidrift]

What the person identifies is the only things that matters, what other people think indeed is irrelevant.

Not to the other people it isn't.

And Jerzy for one has made it clear, repeatedly, that he thinks of Angel as a woman. It doesn't matter how awful that makes him in the eyes of a postmodern Miss Manners; it's what his hindbrain is telling him, and it'll drive his reactions.

[Cortez]

Then the other people are being insensitive dicks.

And Jerzy seems to respect Angel's just fine even if he isn't always comfortable with it. He's not an ass about it.

[wiseguy]

just because some people can't help but still see Bruce Jenner as a guy, does not mean they do not respect Bruce's(has not changed name yet) life choice (and some who say her are laughing at her, use of her or him are not indicators of respect or lack of)

just because I do not think Roseanne Arnold is physically pretty does not mean I am wrong if she sees herself as physically beautiful

[Spidrift]

Then the other people are being insensitive dicks.

So people should have sex with other people to whom they're not physically attracted, because otherwise they'd be insensitive?

And Jerzy seems to respect Angel's just fine even if he isn't always comfortable with it. He's not an ass about it.

Jerzy is clearly trying (admirably) hard to be polite to and respectful of an old friend. But even so, he keeps talking about her as female (comparing her to the female protagonist of that movie, for example), to an extent that might slightly annoy Angel if Angel wasn't rather obsessed with him. The fact that he is still perfectly capable of finding Angel sexually attractive, despite reading Angel as female, is exactly what says to me that he's bisexual for any useful definition of the word, despite his denial.

(At least as bisexual as Sonya, maybe...)

[wiseguy]

Jerzy "sight wise" and taking aside the penis(which it seems is where he has one of the issues with Angel/Angie)

seems to like someone who has a tomboyish look and have a feminine personality, and that is another issue with Angel/Angie

as Angel = no feminine personality
as Angie = less of a tomboyish look

Jerzy is complicated(or so far the writers have put him like that)