15-05-15 Dating my boy side

[Krendall]

Wait, wouldn't the fact that Angel is physically a woman make dating a gay man difficult? Does he not know about that?

[TheResult]

I think it's pretty heavily implied that Jerzy and Angel have slept with each other (and by "slept", I mean "had-a the sex") several times since Jerzy and Dillon broke up. So I think we can come to the logical conclusion that Jerzy knows what Angel is or isn't packing (because, to be honest, I'm still not 100% sure that Angel has either set of genitals, as it's only sort of been inferred to by Jerzy's tentative remarks [unless somebody has a link to something I missed] so I don't want to make that assumption just yet) .. and if that's the case, then Jerzy has all the information he needs to make his decision on whether or not he'd be able to keep his attraction to Angel up-and-running through a relationship.

Keep in mind that even if Jerzy was 100% super-gay, there's not going to be some sort of Gay Police storming his house and telling him "no, you can't do that" if he has people in his life that he considers exceptions to "the rule" (like Angel, who sometimes prefers to be considered female, or even if he dated a "full-time" female.) If he dates Angel's female side, too, and he still wants to be gay, then that's that, he's still gay. Nobody else gets to define that.

Also, side-note: if Angel is trying to convince Jerzy into a relationship, even if they're not dating yet, it's kind of imperative that Angel talk with Jerzy about this date beforehand and lets him know what's going on. Even if it's not "official" between them, with a stamp and seal, Jerzy is putting a lot of trust into Angel right now after a break-up that really hurt him; Angel is an adult that should understand their actions have consequences and effects on others, and that this might affect Jerzy emotionally, while he's still fragile. Like always, communication is key.

[cellabella]

I swear the last panel is almost like a freeze frame from a corny, but cute sitcom. Of course since this is a comic everything is freeze framed.

Angel is being up front about this so no one can accuse her of going behind Jerzy's back although I think there might be ground for this to get serious despite what she says.

Agreed on the second part of your last sentence. If Angel tells Jerzy about this as forthrightly as xe told Richie, then yes, that will be true. It will be up to Jerzy to decide if he's okay with that. Ritchie seems to be willing to give it a go.

HOWEVER, the thing is, Angel cannot be a hypocrite. Jerzy might reasonably point out that if Angel is dating other men, then he is free to do the same. If Angel goes apecrap over that, then it's game over.

Also, while I think Ritchie is nice enough, I think it is important to bear in mind that Richie only became blushy and openly attracted once Angel embraced xer "girl side." He was flirting with Ruby when she came in and walked out with Minew. Richie seems to be attracted to people who are feminine and openly female. Angel is going to want to embrace xer "male side" at some point. Then what? Will Richie decide that he's done with xer? The people who say that this isn't really how genderfluid works, well, I think it's up to those who identify as such to make their own definitions, but I will say it is rare that a genderfluid person very rarely can split into binary components. From what we know of Angel, xe likes to identify more as androgynous. Yes, it's possible Richie will grow to like that side of Angel, too, but I think it's very problematic to start something off on this foot.

[Spidrift]

I think it's pretty heavily implied that Jerzy and Angel have slept with each other (and by "slept", I mean "had-a the sex") several times since Jerzy and Dillon broke up. So I think we can come to the logical conclusion that Jerzy knows what Angel is or isn't packing (because, to be honest, I'm still not 100% sure that Angel has either set of genitals, as it's only sort of been inferred to by Jerzy's tentative remarks [unless somebody has a link to something I missed] so I don't want to make that assumption just yet) .. and if that's the case, then Jerzy has all the information he needs to make his decision on whether or not he'd be able to keep his attraction to Angel up-and-running through a relationship.

While we've not had a full frontal view, we've had Jerzy being uncomfortable about his (as you say, evidently physical) relationship with Angel, and comparing her directly with the boyish female protagonist of a movie. And Richie refers to Angel as a woman who sometimes passes as a man, and presumably he's seen which boxes she ticks on routine employment paperwork. So I'm sure that she's female by birth and anatomy, and doesn't see any need to mess with hormones or surgery to reinforce her psychological and social gender fluidity.

Keep in mind that even if Jerzy was 100% super-gay, there's not going to be some sort of Gay Police storming his house and telling him "no, you can't do that" if he has people in his life that he considers exceptions to "the rule" (like Angel, who sometimes prefers to be considered female, or even if he dated a "full-time" female.) If he dates Angel's female side, too, and he still wants to be gay, then that's that, he's still gay. Nobody else gets to define that.

Sure, he's welcome to use whatever labels he likes for himself. And if he said that "gay" was, in practice, short for "gay (but has sex with one specific gender-fluid woman)", then that's cool enough with me. But when it turns out that he's willingly had sex with more than one woman in the last year or so, going round saying that he's gay, definitely gay, yep 100% gay, not bi at all, just looks unwisely self-deluding.

I'm free to go round calling myself a graphic artist. But if I can't draw or paint to save my life, then doing so doesn't make me an artist; it makes me a delusional twit.

Also, side-note: if Angel is trying to convince Jerzy into a relationship, even if they're not dating yet, it's kind of imperative that Angel talk with Jerzy about this date beforehand and lets him know what's going on. Even if it's not "official" between them, with a stamp and seal, Jerzy is putting a lot of trust into Angel right now after a break-up that really hurt him; Angel is an adult that should understand their actions have consequences and effects on others, and that this might affect Jerzy emotionally, while he's still fragile. Like always, communication is key.

Unfortunately, the evidence is that Angel's judgement is shot to hell in such matters. Jerzy tried to have a serious discussion with Angel about their relationship; Angel's first response was "You think I'm hot!". And before that, there was the whole scary borderline-stalker thing.

Angel is looking kind of sane and reasonable here, and is playing quite fair with Richie. But judging Angel purely by that and ignoring past evidence seems off the mark to me.

[Maechris]

To me, it does seem like Jerzy is bisexual but homoerotic. It's apparently not uncommon to foreswear contact with the gender that one less understands on the serious-relationship-playing-field.

But if that was the case, it's his insistence on being "gay" that is odd.

[themacnut]

Yeah, it's like Sonya insisting she's "not a lesbian" despite the fact that her most recent sex partners have been female (although technically she's more bi than lesbian, since she had a boyfriend before she met Zii and willingly had sex with Gary even while pining after Zii). Personally, I consider Jerzy to be more bi than gay, considering he had sex with Zii in the not-too-distant past and presently has sex with Angel despite clear evidence of her being of the female gender. I think he's just in denial about liking women as well as men, and this self-denial is part of his discomfort about being with Angel.

[wiseguy]

as I said

Jerzy mind

Dillon = Perfect
Matt = nice but too masculine personality
Senna = nice, but has big melons and looks too much like a girl, no tomboyish enough
Yuki = wow, but has no rod (this without knowing her scariness of rods)
Zii = nice but has no rod, and maybe would prefer her with even shorter hair
Angel = looks like a boy but has a lil too much masculinity and no rod, and as Angie, feminine personality which is good but no rod and looks too much like a girl (in other words, be it as Angie or Angel, Jerzy can't find her perfect)

I know, seems very complicated but so far it is how the writers have shown him, with the only "perfect person" being Dillon (boyish look, with a rod, and embraces his feminine side and personality, so he would never be a top) of ones we kinow

he would love it if Angel decided to be "feminine personality" but go with "tomboyish look" and wear a strap-on but not use it on Jerzy

[Spidrift]

Yeah, it's like Sonya insisting she's "not a lesbian" despite the fact that her most recent sex partners have been female (although technically she's more bi than lesbian, since she had a boyfriend before she met Zii and willingly had sex with Gary even while pining after Zii).

Note that we all take Sonya's "Not a Lesbian" lines as evidence of her comedy-idiot characterisation, and laugh at her for that. But when Jerzy demonstrates just the same sort of idiot denial, we have either to take it as sad or say that he's allowed to define his own sexuality and nobody else can tell him what he is.

Well, SDB is a tiny bit more serious than Ma3, a lot of the time. Still, there's a hint of a double standard there.

[wiseguy]

Jerzy is complicated(or seems to be) while Sonya is 100% simple

Sonya likes both girls and boys, and "technically" she is correct, she "IS NOT A LESBIAN" but she is also not straight, she is bisexual

for Jerzy so far................ seems he wants a Dillon but does not want a Matt, or a Senna or a Didi, and in paper he has an issue with being with both Angel(no rod and not feminine enough IN PERSONALITY) and being with Angie(no rod and not tomboyish LOOKING enough) even if both are the same person

BTW, so far, whether Angel identifies as a male or a female, seems she likes just boys, has no interest in girls (sees self either as straight or as gay. depending on what gender sees self)

[Cortez]

Wait, wouldn't the fact that Angel is physically a woman make dating a gay man difficult? Does he not know about that?

No, since Jerzy does like male Angel enough to have sex with Angel multiple times.

Yeah, i and presently has sex with Angel despite clear evidence of her being of the female gender.

Not really, since Angel is gender fluid. So she's identifies as both.

In fact Angel seems to identify as male most of the time, seeing as they prefer to be called Angel instead of Angie.

[Spidrift]

"Angel" looks like a deliberately gender-ambiguous name to me. It could fit both male and female just fine, so Angel doesn't have to change names when changing identities.

[Maechris]

The around two-decade-old 'argument' about how much the other party's gender identity affects a willing partner's objective sexual orientation...
It may seem appropriate here, but long story short - Jerzy had sex with women, he enjoyed sex with women, and was lured away from a vision of a pristine friendship into at least several days of a sexually intense sexual relationship by someone with female anatomy whom he appears to have originally known as a women, and still often identifies her as such on a personal level.

Angel nonwithstanding, this hardly can be called being gay. Self-identified straight girls and guys get more flak for weaker arguments against their 'straightness'.

[wiseguy]

not so simple in SPECIFICALLY for Jerzy ; not using it as a general look for every situation of a guy and a gender-fluid girl(talking birth-wise)

from what he said, seems he likes the "tomboyish look of Angel" and likes the "feminine personality of Angie" (intentionally using the 2 versions of name) and he wishes Angel/Angie would one day go with the "Angel look" but the "Angie personality"


and if he describes himself as gay and not liking girls, it means he strongly desires someone with a penis, not a vagina

we talking about how jerzy "sees things" not what gender his sex partner IS(vagina or penis or even in some cases both) or what gender personality his sex partner chooses (Female or male), what his sex partner thinks or feels are generally irrelevant

basically Jerzy is a somewhat confusing 5 in Kinsey scale
(we might even say 5.5 in Kinsey scale)

[Cortez]

Genderfluid person would be more appropriate wiseguy.

Since Angel is genderfluid, they obviously don't always identify as a girl, so calling them a "genderfluid girl" is problematic. Which i'm sure wasn't your intention.

[wiseguy]

when i put "girl" in this case I meant "body with vagina" which is why I put in parenthesis talking birth wise as we talking mostly about specifically about ones like Angel and not about "born guys(penis) who are gender fluid"