28-04-15 Caught his eye

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JTheCreator
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Re: 28-04-15 Caught his eye

Post by JTheCreator »

Anyone else notice Mr. Harvey checking Angie out in the second panel?
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Spidrift
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Re: 28-04-15 Caught his eye

Post by Spidrift »

It's his natural eye level. And he's openly (and politely) admiring the dress. So I think he gets a pass.
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Ecchi-Spud
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Re: 28-04-15 Caught his eye

Post by Ecchi-Spud »

LUNA!!! :x :YMDAYDREAM:
Many thanks to Raamyah for the avvie!!!!

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lordoffiling
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Re: 28-04-15 Caught his eye

Post by lordoffiling »

People still convinced Angel is male really need to understand narrative structure. Look at the strips as a whole story. You're meant to assume the character is male when first introduced, then all the little teasers and hints lead up to the big reveal. The reveal has occurred guys.

Also, common sense here guys: Jerzey is gay. If Angel were a guy there would be no problem.
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Spidrift
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Re: 28-04-15 Caught his eye

Post by Spidrift »

By now, the fact has become so clear that thinking otherwise is not so much not understanding narrative structure as not reading the comic.
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Spidrift
"Brevior vita est quam pro futumentibus negotium agendo."
-- Motto of Hogshead Publishing of fond memory, and wise words to set your Foes List by.
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Cortez
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Re: 28-04-15 Caught his eye

Post by Cortez »

lordoffiling wrote:People still convinced Angel is male really need to understand narrative structure. Look at the strips as a whole story. You're meant to assume the character is male when first introduced, then all the little teasers and hints lead up to the big reveal. The reveal has occurred guys.

Also, common sense here guys: Jerzey is gay. If Angel were a guy there would be no problem.
Except sometimes he is a guy and sometimes she's a woman. Angel is gender fluid.

Don't be disrespectful.

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Spidrift
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Re: 28-04-15 Caught his eye

Post by Spidrift »

If we want to be entirely tactful, English needs convenient words to distinguish different aspects of sex and gender. Which it doesn't have.

Angel is clearly anatomically and chromosonally female, having stayed that way since birth. Angel's gender fluidity is a question of how Angel chooses to present.

Incidentally, while I'm sure that we should all be politely vague about Angel's gender status to reflect the gender fluidity thing, it's notable that Jerzy really isn't. He basically treats her as female at all times, notably comparing her to the female protagonist of a movie who evidently identifies purely as a (boyish-looking) woman. Given that he doesn't even get the term right every time, he seems to have trouble getting his head around the "gender fluidity" concept.

Which might well be the result of having grown up with a girl named Angie, of course. And Angel puts up with it without blinking, though that is doubtless linked to a grim determination to hang onto Jerzy, whatever.

Double post merged. The DAMNed
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Spidrift
"Brevior vita est quam pro futumentibus negotium agendo."
-- Motto of Hogshead Publishing of fond memory, and wise words to set your Foes List by.
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wiseguy
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Re: 28-04-15 Caught his eye

Post by wiseguy »

jerzy likes the banana but at same time likes femininity(he is extremely happy with Dillon or with Senna) and he seems weak with Angie when she decides to go female but does not like when she is tomboyish and identifies as male

so far, it looks like Angie whether she feels male or female, prefers manly guys (she would be Okay with Matt or with Eric, but not with Dillon or Senna)
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Cortez
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Re: 28-04-15 Caught his eye

Post by Cortez »

Spidrift wrote:If we want to be entirely tactful, English needs convenient words to distinguish different aspects of sex and gender. Which it doesn't have.

Angel is clearly anatomically and chromosonally female, having stayed that way since birth. Angel's gender fluidity is a question of how Angel chooses to present.
That's were you are wrong, there are words to distinguish between sex and gender and not using them is rather cissexist.

Ultimately whatever gender Angel is assigned at birth is irrelevant, what matters what Angel identifies at the moment.

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Spidrift
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Re: 28-04-15 Caught his eye

Post by Spidrift »

But it clearly matters to Jerzy, and as it turns out to Richie too...
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-- Motto of Hogshead Publishing of fond memory, and wise words to set your Foes List by.
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LegendaryKroc
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Re: 28-04-15 Caught his eye

Post by LegendaryKroc »

Spidrift wrote:Incidentally, while I'm sure that we should all be politely vague about Angel's gender status to reflect the gender fluidity thing, it's notable that Jerzy really isn't. He basically treats her as female at all times, notably comparing her to the female protagonist of a movie who evidently identifies purely as a (boyish-looking) woman. Given that he doesn't even get the term right every time, he seems to have trouble getting his head around the "gender fluidity" concept.

Which might well be the result of having grown up with a girl named Angie, of course. And Angel puts up with it without blinking, though that is doubtless linked to a grim determination to hang onto Jerzy, whatever.
It may also be that Angel is just used to it and doesn't let it upset hir. After all, if she was always a little, you know, flexible, even when they were kids, he's probably had a long time to get used to his friend not quite getting her condition.

Speaking of which, I'm not sure how I feel about tip-toeing around the whole Angel's gender thing. He chooses her gender in the same way we pick what clothes to wear - it changes for different occasions, in reflection of however s/he feels at any given moment. Not to imply, of course, that it's random or involves mood-swinging -- just that we should take Angel's word for it which s/he is when we see hir presently and use the appropriate pronouns accordingly. Trying to remain gender-neutral all the time feels like I/we are saying Angel has no gender. Ever/ At all. In reality, it's just malleable.
Spidrift wrote:But it clearly matters to Jerzy, and as it turns out to Richie too...
Well, it matters to them in the sense that Richie is attracted to girls, while Jerzy... has issues (I'm not opening that can of worms) deciding what he is, and while both know about Angel being genderfluid, they have a certain vested interest in pinning it down.

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Spidrift
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Re: 28-04-15 Caught his eye

Post by Spidrift »

The trouble with trying to refer to Angel by the gender Angel is presenting as at the time, is that the pronoun could end up changing within the same paragraph, or be undetermined if we're talking about Angel's behaviour over a long period of time. That's confusing. Working round this and avoiding pronouns isn't tip-toeing, it's aiming for as much clarity as feasible.

I suspect that the singular "they" may be required.

And something that matters, matters. Jerzy's soap-opera confusion over his feelings for Angel, and Richie's comedy version, are driving the plot at the moment. We can't talk about the comic without referencing this stuff.
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Spidrift
"Brevior vita est quam pro futumentibus negotium agendo."
-- Motto of Hogshead Publishing of fond memory, and wise words to set your Foes List by.
Avatar misappropriated from the wonderful XKCD.

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LegendaryKroc
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Re: 28-04-15 Caught his eye

Post by LegendaryKroc »

Spidrift wrote:The trouble with trying to refer to Angel by the gender Angel is presenting as at the time, is that the pronoun could end up changing within the same paragraph, or be undetermined if we're talking about Angel's behaviour over a long period of time. That's confusing. Working round this and avoiding pronouns isn't tip-toeing, it's aiming for as much clarity as feasible.

I suspect that the singular "they" may be required.
Hmph. If you say so. :-w It's just that somehow being so non-commitent feels kind of like copping out. And "they"? I'd have a hard time figuring out whether we were just talking about Angel or talking about Angel and someone else. The word "it" comes to mind, but that would be an insulting word to use for a person.

There's no easy answer to this, is there? :-??
And something that matters, matters. Jerzy's soap-opera confusion over his feelings for Angel, and Richie's comedy version, are driving the plot at the moment. We can't talk about the comic without referencing this stuff.
So how do you suggest we talk about it then? We can't really project a specific gender onto Angel if it's really as indeterminate as you suggest, and Angel was definitely bothered by how xe wasn't how Jerzy wanted hir (to wit).

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Spidrift
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Re: 28-04-15 Caught his eye

Post by Spidrift »

LegendaryKroc wrote:There's no easy answer to this, is there?
No, there isn't.
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"Brevior vita est quam pro futumentibus negotium agendo."
-- Motto of Hogshead Publishing of fond memory, and wise words to set your Foes List by.
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wiseguy
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Re: 28-04-15 Caught his eye

Post by wiseguy »

you know we can instead of her and she use Angie and Angie's?

Angie has feelings for jerzy

jerzy got Angie's love

same thing with his and he with Angel and Angel's if you want to differentiate when Angie feels like a man or a woman
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