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Spidrift wrote:

brasca wrote:Now maybe they will leave without incident because Minew could provide some distraction, but it's also quite likely that she may extort herself to keep Zii silent without any effort. I remember months ago when Zii wanted to learn about Gary's technique and thinking she might want to employ a spy who no one has ever seen. If Ruby is that fearful that her respectability could be destroyed then she might agree to get involved in Zii's hijinks.

I don't remember Zii having any specific ideas about employing a spy, and anyway, she's already established by cross-examining Amber that it's very difficult for someone who's experienced the Swirly to explain the secret. And flat-out blackmail doesn't really seem like Zii's style. For her part, the one thing that I reckon Ruby would think was worse than being embarrassed in front of Amber would be sexual contact with a strange man, so I imagine she'd just respond with a flat "No".

It is not her style, but I would not rule it out completely. Perhaps Amber has complained about her so Zii would not have the best opinion of her. However, I do not see it unfolding that way. Like I said Ruby is more than capable of extorting herself into a situation because she would think Zii was trying to blackmail her when in reality Zii is just looking for someone who can help spy on Gary. She could then eagerly agree to anything before she knows what Zii wants because she is that desperate to maintain her reputation.

Spidrift wrote:Anyway, given that these events are taking place some days before current activities in Ma3 (though, okay, maybe not before Zii tried to get Amber to teach her the Swirly), I think we can be pretty sure that Zii isn't about to drag Ruby into her insanity with Gary. That would be far too much of a crossover, and far too messy to orchestrate. I think that this is just going to be about getting an alternate view of Ruby and Amber and their relationship.

Sad, but true. Given the recent problems with meeting deadlines another crossover story could go off of the rails rather quickly so it is more likely that Ruby will not be getting involved in any Menage a 3 shenanigans.

Spidrift wrote:(Though I wish I knew why Zii seems to be looking annoyed in that last frame today. Startled, or amused, or curious, would make sense, but that facial expression reads as irritated to me. I hope that Ruby playing the slightly annoying kid sister all those years ago doesn't still rankle with Zii, and that Amber hasn't been bad-mouthing Ruby too much to her friends.)

If so then I would guess it would be more of the latter than the former. I thought Ruby would resent Zii at first sight, but she just remembers her as the girl her sister hanged out with a lot among other things. Zii might remember her differently because perspectives vary, but her memory of Ruby has not been clarified yet. Now one thing that could make this meeting disastrous is if Ruby learns of how much Zii influenced her. Up until now she sees Amber as someone who abandoned decency and respectability to be a porn star and as such Ruby's prime motivation to avoid sex. If she sees a mutual affinity for yaoi as another possible gateway into decadence then she could get more self repressing.

Zii might have liked ;little Ruby in a non-sex way but could not have her with Amber during their make-out sessions as she was too young, but for some reason I think Zii might have liked once in a while having little Ruby as the child of poppa Zii and mommy Amber if Ruby had suggested it LOL

and yes, this is the first time Ruby and Zii have talked since Zii's HS period, I don't recall Zii talking to "Rudy"

we shall find out if Amber talked to Zii about Ruby or not

I think their talk would go along the lines of

where are you?
at my sister's place, along with Dill
wow, small world, what are u up to? and this is a cute kitty
thanks, I am looking for work, I have a degree in "what is her field?"
maybe I can give you a job here, I love Yaoi
you do?


and go from there

brasca wrote:Sad, but true. Given the recent problems with meeting deadlines another crossover story could go off of the rails rather quickly so it is more likely that Ruby will not be getting involved in any Menage a 3 shenanigans.

What's so sad about that? SDB is its own comic with its own plot. It shares some characters with Ma3, but it's entitled to go its own way. And one of the good negative things about it is that it doesn't have to feature that characterless nebbish Gary.

Now one thing that could make this meeting disastrous is if Ruby learns of how much Zii influenced her. Up until now she sees Amber as someone who abandoned decency and respectability to be a porn star and as such Ruby's prime motivation to avoid sex. If she sees a mutual affinity for yaoi as another possible gateway into decadence then she could get more self repressing.

I assume that, as she now knows that Zii and Amber must have been goinking when they locked her out of Amber's room, she'll have Zii down as part of Amber's corrupt world already. (And her own yaoi fixation is already a point of shame for her.) The best thing that can come out of this encounter is Zii bouncing her into a bit more conversation before she can run away, and this leading her to realise that people in Amber's life aren't automatically horrible or idiotic.

Don Alexander wrote:No, they know each other from when Ruby was a kid and Amber & Zii were in high school together. See the strip linked above by Spidrift.

I'm not really following the people here who think Minew will be some kind of focus of bonding between Ruby and Zii.

Yep, Zii has a cat (though it's pretty much adopted Gary by now), and, yep, cat ears are kind of Zii's schtick... But she has never struck me as one of those "Awww who's a cute little kitten? You are! Yes, you are!" people (like Ruby obviously is).

I'd ewxpect Zii's reaction to be along the lines of "Cute cat... but why are you carrying her with you?"

Ah now I remember.

Spidrift wrote:I assume that, as she now knows that Zii and Amber must have been goinking when they locked her out of Amber's room, she'll have Zii down as part of Amber's corrupt world already. (And her own yaoi fixation is already a point of shame for her.) The best thing that can come out of this encounter is Zii bouncing her into a bit more conversation before she can run away, and this leading her to realise that people in Amber's life aren't automatically horrible or idiotic.

Also, if the subject comes up at all, Zii is likely to be quite comfortable, knowledgeable, matter-of-fact, and enthusiastic about yaoi...which might give Ruby another perspective on her own attraction to yaoi. (Remember, Dillon has already mentioned to her that she is the target audience for the genre.)

And you're exactly right about Minew being a subject of mutual interest for them (i.e., it explains why Giz put Minew into this plot thread at all). When Ruby put Minew into her bag, it struck me as a rather silly thing for her to do.

Now i'm just wondering how this will play out? Will Ruby try to create a lie to cover herself? Or will she recognize Zii and get angry at her?

Whisky-Tango-Foxtrot wrote:Also, if the subject comes up at all, Zii is likely to be quite comfortable, knowledgeable, matter-of-fact, and enthusiastic about yaoi...which might give Ruby another perspective on her own attraction to yaoi. (Remember, Dillon has already mentioned to her that she is the target audience for the genre.)

But Dillon has already been comfortable, knowledgeable, matter-of-fact, and enthusiastic about yaoi at her. I can't see Zii offering her any perspective that she hasn't already had from him. If Zii was some super-respectable type, it might make her more comfortable with her own interest - but to Ruby, Zii is that doubtless-pervy character who Amber turns out to have been lesbian-doing-stuff-with back in high school.

What I could imagine is Zii accidentally pushing Ruby to take another look at other aspects of her life, by way of some innocent (by Zii standards) questions that trigger Ruby's habitual truthfulness.

Zii: How are you doing these days? Have you got a boyfriend?
Ruby: No! Well, there's somebody I've been out with once...
Zii: Great! Is he cute?
Ruby: Umm. Well, you know, I suppose that you might say he is...

Actually, I could imagine Ruby talking about her life in a way that's meant to make it clear that she's got troubles - degree but no job, stuck in an apartment with Amber, Andy pestering her - without outright whining, only for Zii to take it as polite boasting. "Wow, you're doing good. Letters after your name, a place to stay in town while you job hunt, and a hot boyfriend who sounds like he's crazy for you. And a cute kitten. I should have guessed that Little Ruby would do well for herself!"

What I can imagine, is Zii complimenting Ruby on how pretty she has grown, and Ruby taking it as a sexual come on.

Spidrift wrote:I suspect that most of the cast are lapsed Catholics; Ruby is a natural-born Protestant. Very Quebecois.

But so is Amber...

Both Ruby and Amber are likely French-Canadian (Quebecois), which means that they were very likely raised Catholic. They may even be "related" to Achille Larose, Gerald Larose and Jean-Francios Larose. All politicians and activists from Quebec. There are few Quebecois who are not Catholic, though. Amber and Ruby are related to Didi at some point...

I'm kind of drifting at this point.

Schmorgluck wrote:What I can imagine, is Zii complimenting Ruby on how pretty she has grown, and Ruby taking it as a sexual come on.

That's possible, but I don't think it's likely, personally. Ruby knows at heart that she's got more than passable looks - enough to guess that men may try it on with her, anyway - but lesbianism in general is a weirdness that's way off her radar. The idea that "There are women who ... want to do ... weird stuff with me?" would involve a huge crashing of mental gears with her; the idea wouldn't just hit her out of the blue.

Plus, she and Zii will likely have an older teen/little kid vibe to their interactions. Ruby may find herself literally looking down at Zii, and Zii may be struck by how Ruby has become a fairly impressive woman, but the old psychology will take a while to shift nonetheless. It'll give their relationship a definite asexual tone. Which is one reason why I can't see Zii even thinking about trying anything on with Ruby - along with the fact that Ruby surely won't ping her gaydar at all.

Bambikles wrote:

Spidrift wrote:I suspect that most of the cast are lapsed Catholics; Ruby is a natural-born Protestant. Very Quebecois.

But so is Amber...

I'm talking psychological tone here, not actual religious upbringing. Ruby may have been raised Catholic, or Quaker, or Scientologist, for all we know, but she's absorbed and totally internalised the Protestant work ethic and Calvinist levels of guilt from somewhere. Which is kind of tough for someone who's very possibly a pragmatic atheist by actual belief.

before Dillon, Ruby might have not thought of girls being interested in her

but Dillon made her realize her female teacher suggested ruby to wear mini skirt so the teacher could view her bottom

Spidrift wrote: but to Ruby, Zii is that doubtless-pervy character who Amber turns out to have been lesbian-doing-stuff-with back in high school.

Does she think that? I don't recall that specifically. Considering her low opinion of her sister, isn't it possible she thinks Amber corrupted Zii, not the other way around?

You also posted upthread that, to Ruby, Zii stole Amber from her, but do we know what kind of relationship the sisters had prior to Zii? It doesn't seem like they were ever close.

It's possible that Ruby might think that Amber corrupted Zii; I guess that if Zii manages to make a friend of her, say by bonding with Minew, being tactful about the yaoi, and generally being friendly in a cool way, Ruby might decide that everything was probably Amber's fault. But her default assumption usually seems to be that Amber's friends are part of Amber's world, and hence are likely to be tarred with the same brush. Remember all her comments and assumptions about Dillon and his "pervy" hands the night she arrived in the apartment.

Dillon has since got past her defences and made a friend of her, but even so he does have what she'd call a weird and over-active sex life (actually forgiveable because of the yaoi, hubba hubba, but that's a different issue), so she has no evidence yet that Amber's friends aren't all sex mad (terribly inaccurate though that is); it's just that one of them manages to be sort-of-okay despite that. Likewise, she may not be totally hostile to Zii, if Zii can turn on enough charm, but my bet is that she'll assume that Amber and Zii were probably as bad as each other, back in their teens, until given reason to think otherwise. Plus, not only will Zii probably enthuse about yaoi, making her definitely as bad as Ruby now fears that she herself is, but Ruby last saw her playing the rock star - and Ruby does tend to think in clichés a bit, I'm afraid, and we all know the clichés about rock musicians.

As to Ruby and Amber's pre-Zii relationship - no, we don't know what that was like. Probably a bit distant, frankly, given their age gap. But it looks pretty clear that Ruby wanted to be friendly with Amber, at the exact time that Amber was getting it on with Zii. She's made it clear that she was locked out of Amber's room when Zii was around, more than once, and she felt the exclusion; she wanted to join them in playing games, and the memory has lasted ten years or so, and by the looks of panel 2 there, she was still unhappy about it. (Call me a sentimental fool, but I find that strip terribly sad.) Ruby found herself shut out at precisely the moment she wanted to get closer to Amber, and she's only discovered why within the last three days. Whoever she blames for that, now or in future, is likely to catch a fair load of Ruby bitterness if they're not lucky.

Fair enough. I asked because it's sometimes difficult to tell when you are saying something that you are just guessing at, and saying something that's stated outright in the comic, as you use the same phrasing for both (no "I think" or "we can assume" or any couched phrases). I was wondering if I wasn't remembering something correctly.

That scene you link actually brings up another interesting thought. We know that, right now, Ruby thinks that sex is everything to Amber. And in that scene, she just found out that sex was apparently Amber's idea of a good time well before she got into porn. That revelation hasn't had any consequences so far, but I wonder if it will come up now, with Zii?