01-08-14 I am whoever you want me to be

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wi1dfire
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Re: 01-08-14 I am whoever you want me to be

Post by wi1dfire »

Spidrift wrote:
Azrael wrote:Still not necessarily.
Desperate much?
actually, this was the first strip since the one where Angel went into a women's restroom that really made me question the character's gender identity. If Angel identifies as female, but prefers to be called something other than her birth name/nickname, great. As someone that goes by a translation of their birth name, I understand completely. If the character identifies as male but still uses a women's restroom out of practicality, then less great (from the character's p.o.v.) but interesting in terms of diversity. My guess is that Angel was born a biological woman, but after that I await further explanation.

And until I see that explanation, which I assume is not far off, then I will try to avoid using a gender pronoun. It's basic politeness to use the gender pronoun that a person thinks of themselves as, just like it's basic politeness to call someone by the name they'd prefer to be called.
Spidrift wrote: Mind you, what I find sad about this strip is of course that we don't get to see Ruby's reaction to Dillon's provocation from last time - which tends to imply that she won't give him the volcanic broadside that he deserves, and we won't get to see Ruby's still-unreliable strong side reinforced. I know that Giz & co. really don't do talky strips, and perhaps we'll cut back to see Dillon quivering in the aftermath of a Ruby explosion, but I have a nasty feeling we won't. Which leaves Ruby looking worryingly susceptible to Dillon's "charm", or at least too damn polite, when I keep hoping that at least one character within the comic wasn't going to end up enabling him.
I was only going to comment on the first bit from this reply, but this jumped out a me too. Like you, I am glad that Ruby sees so clearly what kind of person Dillon is. However, I don't really think it's her duty to bring this to his attention. He's arguably an adult himself, it's his own responsibility to figure that crap out on his own, or fail to. I wouldn't mind if she helped, but I don't see it as an obligation that she needs to shoulder.

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Spidrift
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Re: 01-08-14 I am whoever you want me to be

Post by Spidrift »

JoybuzzerX wrote:I think the idea of Angel is supposed to be that she is in love with Jerzy. No different than Sonya with Zii.
It may just be her emo style, but her dialogue strikes me as a notch more creepy and a notch less funny than Sonya. Sonya is bouncy and a bit dim, with a tendency to spin off zany schemes; even when she's being evil, she seems to be roleplaying a femme fatale. That's comedy; a strip with Sonya in will usually end in a joke. Angel just seems scarily determined; note the total lack of a joke in today's strip - which is very unusual in this universe.
Last edited by Spidrift on Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Spidrift
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crimzontearz
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Re: 01-08-14 I am whoever you want me to be

Post by crimzontearz »

and now every time I see a sprint commercial I see "Angie"

Image

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Spidrift
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Re: 01-08-14 I am whoever you want me to be

Post by Spidrift »

wi1dfire wrote:And until I see that explanation, which I assume is not far off, then I will try to avoid using a gender pronoun. It's basic politeness to use the gender pronoun that a person thinks of themselves as, just like it's basic politeness to call someone by the name they'd prefer to be called.
I'm happy to describe somebody by their gender of choice, but in that case, if they want to make an issue of it, they just have to make it clear what that gender is. I can't be polite if they don't make it clear what they prefer. Absent that, I'll have to default to biological gender.
I was only going to comment on the first bit from this reply, but this jumped out a me too. Like you, I am glad that Ruby sees so clearly what kind of person Dillon is. However, I don't really think it's her duty to bring this to his attention. He's arguably an adult himself, it's his own responsibility to figure that crap out on his own, or fail to. I wouldn't mind if she helped, but I don't see it as an obligation that she needs to shoulder.
She's not obliged to "help", but it would be good for her if she did so. There's clearly quite a strong person in there, but she lets herself be manipulated too easily. Occasionally showing a mind of her own would make her look like a better, more interesting person.

Plus, Dillon shouldn't be given an excuse to ignore the fact if Ruby starts giving him the cold shoulder.
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Spidrift
"Brevior vita est quam pro futumentibus negotium agendo."
-- Motto of Hogshead Publishing of fond memory, and wise words to set your Foes List by.
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wi1dfire
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Re: 01-08-14 I am whoever you want me to be

Post by wi1dfire »

I don't really see how it would be good for her to do that. Wouldn't that be creating needless strife? Who would it benefit, besides the reader? Ruby is a temporary guest in the apartment, calling someone whose generosity you are benefiting from on their crap strikes me as unharmonious. I seriously doubt Dillon would listen to her anyways, but might get angry with her for talking about a branch of human of existence of which she has little actual experience, however obvious and correct we might see her observations.

I don't see why she'd give him a cold shoulder anyways. So she lost a little respect for him and his intellect. She wasn't hanging out with him because she thought he was brilliant or put-together in the first place. Some of my friends and family members are capable of pretty crappy actions. I don't really see the need to judge them for it, nor do I enjoy seeing fictional characters get up on a high horse and do it for me. If he'd treated her with disrespect, then yes, let her verbally kick the snot out of him. And that includes any demands he might make for sympathy when she clearly doesn't want to give him any. But simply finding out more of his flaws doesn't merit that.

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Geeno
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Re: 01-08-14 I am whoever you want me to be

Post by Geeno »

crimzontearz wrote:
Azrael wrote:I'm not saying it's not primarily (overwhelmingly) a feminine name. However, I have known a couple Italian men who have been nicknamed Angie. I also just got done re-reading a story that includes a male character referred to as "Angie". So just calling Angel, "Angie" does not necessarily make "him" a "her" for me.
that's Ange, for Angelo....

also as I AM Italian and was born, grew up and lived Italy until the age of 20 I can tell you that claim is bull....
I was going to say that. Every Angelo I've ever known (a statistically bizarre number for a non-Italian, now that I think about it) was an "Ange" (pronounced ANJ - no trailing vowel sound)- "Angie" is his sister, and woe be unto you if you get confused on that point.
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crimzontearz
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Re: 01-08-14 I am whoever you want me to be

Post by crimzontearz »

in Italian proper Ange is Pronounced like An-Je (je is pronounced like the beginning of the name Jenny) so there is a vowel trailing but it is not in any way shape or form like Angie, Angela on the other hand is usually shortened as Angi, which DOES sound an awful lot like Angie

Also, since it pisses me off to no end

in the name Giovanni the first I is silent it is not Geeovanni like some people pronounce it, it sounds like John people....-grumbles-

JoybuzzerX
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Re: 01-08-14 I am whoever you want me to be

Post by JoybuzzerX »

And yet Giovanni Ribisi pronounces it like Geeovanni and not Johnvanni.

Quote removed. The DAMNed

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Spidrift
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Re: 01-08-14 I am whoever you want me to be

Post by Spidrift »

wi1dfire wrote:I don't really see how it would be good for her to do that. Wouldn't that be creating needless strife? Who would it benefit, besides the reader?
Ruby needs the confidence to say "no" to people in general and Dillon very much in particular. She's too easily bounced into things. Discovering the courage of her convictions would be good for her. Dillon has been right about one thing; she needs to test and stretch her limits. Her night as Rudy was good for her in that respect, and discovering that she can call an older, more extrovert person out when he's talking BS would be another step.
Ruby is a temporary guest in the apartment, calling someone whose generosity you are benefiting from on their crap strikes me as unharmonious.
In the end, Ruby is there as Amber's guest, and that isn't going to change for at least four different reasons. Ruby may go along with Dillon's nonsense out of a sense of politeness, but she's entitled to set limits to his claims on her patience. Sometimes, you've got to sacrifice some harmony to stop the situation being abused, or on principle. And Ruby has principles; that's part of her charm.
Some of my friends and family members are capable of pretty crappy actions. I don't really see the need to judge them for it, nor do I enjoy seeing fictional characters get up on a high horse and do it for me. If he'd treated her with disrespect, then yes, let her verbally kick the snot out of him.
That's not how Ruby seems to work, though. She actually has a moral code, whereas most of the characters in this setting just run on shaky situational ethics. And moral codes are general, not personal. Just because Dillon hasn't hurt her with this behaviour doesn't get him a pass.

Note how she instantly saw the problem with Dillon's "27 guys" boast, when every other character in the comic just lets that kind of thing slide by. She may bite her tongue here, if only because Dillon wouldn't listen, but we can see that she's very, very unimpressed.

Is she sanctimonious and judgemental? Sure. If she tries appointing herself Dillon's personal Jiminy Cricket, she'll sacrifice a chunk of cuteness and some domestic harmony. But she'll retain her integrity, which is not only important to her, it's what makes her, Ruby, such an interesting and strong person.
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Spidrift
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-- Motto of Hogshead Publishing of fond memory, and wise words to set your Foes List by.
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FPDC
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Re: 01-08-14 I am whoever you want me to be

Post by FPDC »

what if the next scene shows Jerzy unable to "get it up" with Angel / Angie? He did tell Erik that his fling with Zii was when he could still 'get it up with women' that time back.

Angel's reaction would be hilarious then.

crimzontearz
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Re: 01-08-14 I am whoever you want me to be

Post by crimzontearz »

JoybuzzerX wrote:
crimzontearz wrote:in Italian proper Ange is Pronounced like An-Je (je is pronounced like the beginning of the name Jenny) so there is a vowel trailing but it is not in any way shape or form like Angie, Angela on the other hand is usually shortened as Angi, which DOES sound an awful lot like Angie

Also, since it pisses me off to no end

in the name Giovanni the first I is silent it is not Geeovanni like some people pronounce it, it sounds like John people....-grumbles-
And yet Giovanni Ribisi pronounces it like Geeovanni and not Johnvanni.
because the guy is American, not Italian. You would be surprised at the number of American people who call themselves Italian because they are of Italian descent who can't even pronounce their name/last name correctly.

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thebitterfig
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Re: 01-08-14 I am whoever you want me to be

Post by thebitterfig »

W/R/T Angie as a nickname... Well, I've heard Peter called Petey, or Luke Lukey. Let's not forget John Johnnie, Bill Billy, Charles Charlie, and so forth *edit* or JERZY */edit*. Sticking a "y" or "ie" at the end of a name is a pretty common form of nickname. If Angel was raised a boy, having Angie as a hated childhood nickname is fairly plausible, as is the fact that Angel now despises the nickname as being too strongly gendered.

I personally think the born female, now identifies as something else is the most likely theory, but I wouldn't put odds at more than 3:1. Nothing is certain yet, and lambasting folks for expressing this uncertainty is foolish. Oh wait, I almost forgot that this is the internet.
Last edited by thebitterfig on Sat Aug 02, 2014 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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crimzontearz
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Re: 01-08-14 I am whoever you want me to be

Post by crimzontearz »

The guy/girl uses women's bathrooms while posing as a boy...

I think his genetic make up is XX not XY.

so until he specifies I am with spidrift.

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Electric-Circuitry
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Re: 01-08-14 I am whoever you want me to be

Post by Electric-Circuitry »

I just joined this board to put my opinion on Angel's gender. First post, yay!

So I was looking back in the comics, and I noticed a couple of things.

During http://www.stickydillybuns.com/strips-sdb/make_it_clear , we have Dillon stressing the word he's. There aren't any corrections, and maybe Jerzy wants to keep it secret...which is fine. But then...
http://www.stickydillybuns.com/strips-s ... ot_jealous
Why does Angel threaten "he's bi, you know!" If Angel was a woman, then why would that matter? Are all the men in this web comic just defaulted to homosexual? Angel isn't saying it in a "he's bi, you're bi, maybe there could be something between you two!" Angel is saying "He's bi, he's sexy, I could easily do things all the time with him, aren't you jealous?" I guess I'm just thinking that that fact would've been kind of pointless if Angel's gender is female.

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Fluffy
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Re: 01-08-14 I am whoever you want me to be

Post by Fluffy »

Spidrift wrote:
JoybuzzerX wrote:I think the idea of Angel is supposed to be that she is in love with Jerzy. No different than Sonya with Zii.
It may just be her emo style, but her dialogue strikes me as a notch more creepy and a notch less funny than Sonya. Sonya is bouncy and a bit dim, with a tendency to spin off zany schemes; even when she's being evil, she seems to be roleplaying a femme fatale. That's comedy; a strip with Sonya in will usually end in a joke. Angel just seems scarily determined; note the total lack of a joke in today's strip - which is very unusual in this universe.
No matter how you try to sugar coat it, Joybuzzer has a point. Sonya's obsession with making Zii hers was just as scary as Angel's was with Jerzy.

In fact, Sonya's worse!

While Angel flirted heavily with Jerzy and proclaimed repeatedly that she wanted him back, she never crossed any questionable line. She settled with using honesty in order to try and make Jerzy see the light when it came to Dillon. She never lied, schemed, or manipulated things in order for Jerzy to comeback to her, and if she did? She was honest about it.

Sonya, on the other hand, schemed and manipulated to get what she wanted the moment Zii decided she'd pawn her off to Gary. Sonya would do a strip tease for Zii, make passes at her, get naked in front of her and physically stimulated her - providing constant physical temptation that she knew Zii would not be able to resist. While they were shitfaced, Sonya convinced Zii to dump Erik so they could fool around guilt free (which resulted in a genuine break up after Erik walked in on the orgy and overheard Zii's declaring her desire for Didi).

Bouncy, cute and dimwitted or not - Sonya does have vile tendencies.
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