29-07-14 28 is lucky

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Giz
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Re: 29-07-14 28 is lucky

Post by Giz » Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:54 pm

I can understand why someone would hate him, but if he was perfect, he'd be boring as hell. Removing him (from his own series) would not help the series. Ruby needs a Dillon-type for her comedy to come out. The goal here is just like TheDude said. Both these characters need to grow.

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Re: 29-07-14 28 is lucky

Post by crimzontearz » Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:21 pm

tanonev wrote:
crimzontearz wrote:Right yet if a straight guy was to do that to a lesbian girl (whether successfully or not) the uproar and indignation would be insane
But straight girls don't present lesbian because they're closeted/in denial. Gay guys presenting straight because they're closeted/in denial, however, are a real thing. Furthermore, there is zero societal pressure for a straight person to accept a gay advance, whereas there is plenty of societal pressure for a gay person to accept a straight advance, so it's reasonable to assume that someone who presents straight but accepts a gay advance is doing so because of their own inclinations as opposed to simply caving to societal pressure. For similar reasons, the indignation at a woman seducing a man presenting gay would be higher than at a woman seducing a woman presenting lesbian, and understandably so.
I beg to differ on that first one....and the second one, societal pressure is bull**** for the weak minded. You are who you are and if you REALLY want to masquerade you can turn down ANY advance without feeling the pressure of having to say yes (especially if you are a woman).

still, a man luring a straight man into bisexuality is A-OK if successful because You know, that guy was likely bi/gay or in denial, and A-OK if unsuccessful because the target is likely closeted or bigot.

A man luring a lesbian woman (or attempting to) to bisexuality is bad if successful because he does it out of some odd male knuckle headed imperative to own the woman and it is bad if unsuccessful because he is pushing his sexuality on a person not interested.


the double standard just irritates me.


whatever, may he suffer for his idiocy and hypocrisy until his life is a barren wasteland of loneliness

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Re: 29-07-14 28 is lucky

Post by brasca » Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:28 pm

Artemisia wrote:Why is it that Dillon gets so much hate? Honestly, it took me quite a while before I even started reading SOTR, and I'm still kind of not following it regularly.
It's the hypocrisy. There are times when Zii isn't the easiest person to like and she has been a karma Houdini on many occassions, but she at least owns up to the fact that she was the one that cheated on Eric. Dillon is so upset that Jerzy who he never actually caught cheating, but cheering up a friend who just lost a contest to his bitter rival that he throws a tantrum and breaks up then and there. Moreover, he's guilty of cheating on many occasions and came really close at the very event. And if that wasn't enough he's boasting about how many guys he seduced away from their girlfriends. Now I could overlook something like that if he didn't know they had girlfriends, but that couldn't have happened 27 times so he's willfully been involved with playing a roll in the same pain and suffering for some poor girl.

All that being said I don't hate him. Like Giz said if he was perfect this would be boring. Flawed people are far more interesting and I was the most diehard defender of one of the most detested characters on the Penny & Aggie board. Hopefully, Ruby can overcome her problems first because she's the only one who bothers to call Dillon out when he's wrong.

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Re: 29-07-14 28 is lucky

Post by TCampbell » Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:30 pm

Blame me if you like for this particular callback to one of Dillon's early defining moments. It was my suggestion and I pushed for it. And I stand by it, though it may be a year or more before I know for sure whether it was the right call.

I wanted it as clear as we could make it that this has never been a story about poor repressed Ruby who just needs to lighten up and learn from the Zen master Dillon, who has everything figured out. That's the story Dillon often thinks he's in, right now, and sometimes it's appeared that way to the reader, too. Nor, for that matter, is it a story all about how perfect Ruby is just the way she is and what fools Dillon and Amber are to try dragging her down to their level. All three-- even Amber, who seems to want a relationship but who seems to be stuck speaking the wrong, porn-informed language whenever she tries to build one-- are doing things that, left unchallenged, endanger their chances for long-term happiness. To paraphrase TheDude, it's a story about learning from each other.

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Optimus Kate
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Re: 29-07-14 28 is lucky

Post by Optimus Kate » Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:39 pm

TheDude wrote:The amount of self-righteous indignation baffles me once again. How about some empathy? Dillon clearly is his biggest enemy and it will probably take quite a while until he gains some self-awareness, but with Ruby by his side (who clearly benefits from being forced out of her comfort zone) his chances have greatly increased. He's a poor schmuck but - at least to me - still pretty funny.
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Re: 29-07-14 28 is lucky

Post by Artemisia » Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:50 pm

@crimzontearz - please read the long post I made about this subject. It is something that I have not only studied, but lived with my whole life. Your comments are incredibly dismissive of a system which actually favors and pushes for people to be straight and cis gender. We are indoctrinated from an early age to believe that boys and girls are suppose to get married and have children. It isn't "bull**** for the weak mind", but rather something that each of us has been pushed into from birth even if you are lucky enough to live in a family like mine which did not push this. It is a huge part of our society and not exactly easy to break out of.
brasca wrote:
Artemisia wrote:Why is it that Dillon gets so much hate? Honestly, it took me quite a while before I even started reading SOTR, and I'm still kind of not following it regularly.
It's the hypocrisy. There are times when Zii isn't the easiest person to like and she has been a karma Houdini on many occassions, but she at least owns up to the fact that she was the one that cheated on Eric. Dillon is so upset that Jerzy who he never actually caught cheating, but cheering up a friend who just lost a contest to his bitter rival that he throws a tantrum and breaks up then and there. Moreover, he's guilty of cheating on many occasions and came really close at the very event. And if that wasn't enough he's boasting about how many guys he seduced away from their girlfriends. Now I could overlook something like that if he didn't know they had girlfriends, but that couldn't have happened 27 times so he's willfully been involved with playing a roll in the same pain and suffering for some poor girl.

All that being said I don't hate him. Like Giz said if he was perfect this would be boring. Flawed people are far more interesting and I was the most diehard defender of one of the most detested characters on the Penny & Aggie board. Hopefully, Ruby can overcome her problems first because she's the only one who bothers to call Dillon out when he's wrong.
The hypocrisy is part of the humor here. Dillon likely does not see what he has done as wrong because of the view that men who repress their sexuality are hypocrites. While it is not a view held by all gay men, I've run into a few who see other men repressing their sexuality as being hypocritical and feel that it is their right to expose them for what they are- either through seducing them or through outing them publically. I've run into a few lesbians who are like that. I happen to disagree with it and feel that the creative team here is pointing out one of the bigger hypocrisies within the LGBTQ+ Community.

Dillon is upset with Jerzy because he feels that Jerzy cheated on him as one gay man to another.

Additionally, there is a tremendous amount of latent misogyny within the gay male part of the Community. There are some gay men who would not see these men's girlfriends as being important or even equals. I'm not saying that Dillon is one of those gay men who is incredibly misogynistic, but it would not necessarily surprise me that he could actually see the world in homonormative ways. That is, to him, men are suppose to be attracted to other men or suppose to be in couples with other men. You've been around me long enough to have heard me express similar feelings, though I do not hold the same kind of view that a woman in a relationship with a man means that seducing them away from their boyfriend is exactly alright.
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Re: 29-07-14 28 is lucky

Post by crimzontearz » Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:05 pm

My comments are dismissive of it because that is how I see it. You are who you are and you can either supinely accept and bend to the pressure or realize that what others think of you or expect of you mean, to you, absolutely nothing. Yes, I am callous, yes I am cold, yes my attitude as seen me ostracized and isolated by many minus those who were like minded. I STILL do not care.

but I am seriously not going to enter a debate about this right now. I see what Dillon did as impossibly irritating and I would see it that way if anyone else (regardless of the gender) did it.

The fact that he still thinks he is not at fault and he is the victim and/or that it is OK for him to be the one on the other side of the fence simply reinforces my desire to see him suffer.

a lot

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Re: 29-07-14 28 is lucky

Post by Artemisia » Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:09 pm

crimsontearz,

When you dismiss the fact that these things exist in our society you tacitly give it permission to exist. I do agree with you with regards how people are what they are. I also agree that it is wrong for Dillon to act in a hypocritical manner regarding cheating, but that is part of his character and part of the humor of him.

But, since you do not want to debate, that's fine.
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Re: 29-07-14 28 is lucky

Post by FrostDancer81 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:12 pm

It's no small wonder I lurk more than post on this forum. So many debates, so many non-accepting people. So much annoyance. Lovely and not at the same time.

Now for Dillon's part...just kinda meh on it really. I read more for Ruby and tolerate Dillon's presence more than anything. Yeah he's the star, but he is someone I did not care for from MA3 and choose to tolerate because there is a character here that is more interesting and tolerable. If not for her, I would simply not read, which I think many people may need to start doing if they really are finding themselves not being able to tolerate Dillon's character anymore. I did the same for MA3 cause I couldn't really enjoy nor stand the comic so yeah. :))
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Re: 29-07-14 28 is lucky

Post by Artemisia » Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:15 pm

That's fine FrostDancer.

After all, I rather ignore Gary in Ma3. We each have our favorite characters. I have to be honest that part of why I don't read SOTR regularly is because I am not a fan of Sandra or Senna. I'm looking into it a bit more now, but they were not and aren't my favorite characters in Ma3. We don't have to all like each of the characters, even the main ones.
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"I'm going to do what I do best...lecture her."- Twilight Sparkle (My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic)
"Hello, I'm a lizard woman from the dawn of time, and this is my wife." - Madam Vastra (Doctor Who "The Snowmen")
"There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes." The 4th Doctor Doctor Who "Robot"

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Re: 29-07-14 28 is lucky

Post by FlashD81 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:30 pm

I want to be clear as I can be about Dillon. I don't hate him so much as I am angry at his apparent lack of growth and self awareness. I agree that him working with Ruby is good for her but it doesn't seem to be working for Dillon because all of her sharp wit/comments bounce off of him.

The funny thing is, and I might have to look back over the strip to be sure, I only think Dillon was getting what Ruby was saying when she was playing Rudy. If I were to make a chart of all the changes in the short time SDB has gone on, you would see a lot of changes to Ruby. She has changed more in the first volume that Gary did in Ma3*. At this rate Ruby will be a fully adjusted woman with all of her issues dealt with by the time Dillon learns that he is his own worse enemy.

I really liked how he and Jerzy hit it off at the start and I was hoping that would progress in to growth for Dillon. Today, to me, it looks like he went back a few steps and that angers and frustrates me.

I hope Ruby can get him to hear himself and understand his problems. I'd go on but I have to get going.

*in the first volume
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Re: 29-07-14 28 is lucky

Post by noahkai » Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:37 pm

Giz wrote:I can understand why someone would hate him, but if he was perfect, he'd be boring as hell. Removing him (from his own series) would not help the series. Ruby needs a Dillon-type for her comedy to come out. The goal here is just like TheDude said. Both these characters need to grow.
brasca wrote: All that being said I don't hate him. Like Giz said if he was perfect this would be boring. Flawed people are far more interesting and I was the most diehard defender of one of the most detested characters on the Penny & Aggie board. Hopefully, Ruby can overcome her problems first because she's the only one who bothers to call Dillon out when he's wrong.
TCampbell wrote:Blame me if you like for this particular callback to one of Dillon's early defining moments. It was my suggestion and I pushed for it. And I stand by it, though it may be a year or more before I know for sure whether it was the right call.

I wanted it as clear as we could make it that this has never been a story about poor repressed Ruby who just needs to lighten up and learn from the Zen master Dillon, who has everything figured out. That's the story Dillon often thinks he's in, right now, and sometimes it's appeared that way to the reader, too. Nor, for that matter, is it a story all about how perfect Ruby is just the way she is and what fools Dillon and Amber are to try dragging her down to their level. All three-- even Amber, who seems to want a relationship but who seems to be stuck speaking the wrong, porn-informed language whenever she tries to build one-- are doing things that, left unchallenged, endanger their chances for long-term happiness. To paraphrase TheDude, it's a story about learning from each other.
This is why despite my post here at the start of the forum, I still like this webcomic and that's why I'm supporting it. I should have made that clear back then, but I just read the strip and it made me sigh and shake my head in frustration.

I do like Dillon as a character, I can see good development coming out of him, and even him actually growing up, in the strips to come. The problem with most things, is that this takes time, and we are conditioned to want things now. I'ma bring up Ma3 a bit here (and please, don't take this in a way where I'm trying to pick a fight, cause I'm not): People were wildly speculating on the strip when Chanelle called up all her girlfriends to come get swirles, and people were jumping around with so many theories because they wanted to know right now (in a sense) what the outcome was going to be, even though they just needed to wait two days for the next strip. Was I one of then? Sort of. Because I wanted to see just how things were going. We're only allowed to see so much in four panels, and Giz and company can only fit in so much, and have to leave some out where the read has to fill in the blanks.

Hell, I'll even bring up Meaty Yogurt by Rosalarian, another webcomic where I cannot stand the main character. The reason is simple: as Jackie is wanting to leave her hometown so bad (because her uncle had put it in her head that the place is cursed), but she is being so self centered and not paying attention to her surroundings and the people who care about her, which makes her come across as a bitch (from my point of view). I don't like her, but I know that sooner or later (mostly later) she will have the chance to grow once she realizes her own faults and how she treats others. That's why I keep on reading it. The same goes for Dillon and sometimes I keep on forgetting to cut him some slack.

So yeah, with Dillon being a hypocrite, this just makes him a flawed character, and that is a good thing. We have to see how his development will come about, and how he will learn to be a better person, but that will take time. So I'll retract that statement I made earlier. There is a reason why I don't post too often on the forum, the frustrated side of me easily comes through. :P
Last edited by noahkai on Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mistress Dizzy
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Re: 29-07-14 28 is lucky

Post by Mistress Dizzy » Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:42 pm

Found my way back to the forums.

I am... well... I don't know what to say. Dillon is seriously oblivious and it's gonna hurt with his pink sparkly Glinda bubble pops.

Then again, Jerzy's none too bright either.

Ruby may be barking up the wrong tree, here. Then again, she has her own set of problems.

These people are all so messed up, and yet I keep reading.

I guess I can enjoy the drama from the safe distance of fiction.

--

In other news... I'm finding Dillon really hot in the mascara and lipstick and boy clothes. That is kind of confusing, because him with the makeup AND wig and girl clothes does nothing for me. *so confused* I'm sure there's a term for it, but I'm not even sure where to start looking.

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Optimus Kate
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Re: 29-07-14 28 is lucky

Post by Optimus Kate » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:41 pm

Mistress Dizzy, that's so funny, I thought the exact same thing about Dillon's current look.

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Re: 29-07-14 28 is lucky

Post by Artemisia » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:50 pm

Marlene Dietrich and Katherine Hepburn . . . :p
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"I'm going to do what I do best...lecture her."- Twilight Sparkle (My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic)
"Hello, I'm a lizard woman from the dawn of time, and this is my wife." - Madam Vastra (Doctor Who "The Snowmen")
"There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes." The 4th Doctor Doctor Who "Robot"

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