20-06-14 What kind of boyfriend are you

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Re: 20-06-14 What kind of boyfriend are you

Post by dmra » Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:22 pm

JtheCreator wrote:If people are talking about this: http://www.stickydillybuns.com/strips-s ... pportunity

I hardly see that as him being a girl given the circumstances. Ever been to a club where people are practically vomiting in line waiting for the bathroom?
Except there are no queues in those pictures. Besides every one I've ever known complain about the lack of toilets at venues has been a woman. So why would a man have got into the habit of using the female toilets?

Personally I don't think the evidence is conclusive but strongly suspect the creators are either enjoying the whole debate too much to give a final answer or don't care what the answer might be.

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Re: 20-06-14 What kind of boyfriend are you

Post by Whisky-Tango-Foxtrot » Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:22 pm

Spidrift wrote:Whereas Dillon is always trying.
*VERY* trying. ;)
JTheCreator wrote:Every character refers to Angel as a "he", even Ruby.
Correction: MOST of the characters...but--rather notably!--NOT Jerzy and NOT Zii. Both of whom should know best which pronoun to use.

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Re: 20-06-14 What kind of boyfriend are you

Post by CFT » Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:34 pm

@JTheCreator: That's precisely the point. Everyone (who doesn't know Angel, like Ruby) assumes Angel is male, but the writers deliberately gave us a very solid (though subtle, as many readers missed the "female" pic at the bathroom door) clue that this assumption could be wrong.

And yes, that's still not a 100% proof but, because this is a fictional work where every element is put there for a reason (see Chekhov's gun) it would be incredibly weird for Angel to turn out to be male all along (as we first assumed). The "payoff" of Angel being male would be that few dozen very observant readers (and/or forum readers) would find themselves non-satisfactory "tricked" by the writers into doubting Angel's gender for no reason. On the other hand, the "payoff" of Angel being female would be that the majority of readers (who aren't so observant and/or don't frequent the forums) would go "Wow, I surely didn't see that coming!" and maybe -for added bonus- realise when archive-reading that the clues were there all along for them to see, Sixth-Sense-style.
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Re: 20-06-14 What kind of boyfriend are you

Post by Artemisia » Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:39 pm

It would be incredibly interesting to have Angel turn out to be neither male nor female...and be agender.
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Re: 20-06-14 What kind of boyfriend are you

Post by Nev » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:27 pm

Ugh that shit-eating expression on Angel's face.

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Re: 20-06-14 What kind of boyfriend are you

Post by Spidrift » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:33 pm

Whisky-Tango-Foxtrot wrote:
Spidrift wrote:Whereas Dillon is always trying.
*VERY* trying.
You got the joke...
JTheCreator wrote:Every character refers to Angel as a "he", even Ruby.
Correction: MOST of the characters...but--rather notably!--NOT Jerzy and NOT Zii. Both of whom should know best which pronoun to use.
Exactly.

Note also that Jerzy had sex with Angel (once), keeps saying it won't happen again - and has said that he's now definitely gay after going through a bisexual phase. So if Angel turned out to be a woman, those two items would tie up nicely. Heck, we can even see that Angel always wears a choker or scarf, so we can't get into nit-picky arguments about Adam's apples.

In fact, at the moment, Angel's sex is undetermined. It's a running gag between the writers and those readers who are obsessive enough to care. But Angel could turn out to be female, and if so, nobody could say that they didn't play fair.
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Re: 20-06-14 What kind of boyfriend are you

Post by Whisky-Tango-Foxtrot » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:59 pm

CFT wrote:And yes, that's still not a 100% proof but, because this is a fictional work where every element is put there for a reason (see Chekhov's gun) it would be incredibly weird for Angel to turn out to be male all along (as we first assumed). The "payoff" of Angel being male would be that few dozen very observant readers (and/or forum readers) would find themselves non-satisfactory "tricked" by the writers into doubting Angel's gender for no reason. On the other hand, the "payoff" of Angel being female would be that the majority of readers (who aren't so observant and/or don't frequent the forums) would go "Wow, I surely didn't see that coming!" and maybe -for added bonus- realise when archive-reading that the clues were there all along for them to see, Sixth-Sense-style.
Good point. Some tend to forget that most of this strip's readers don't read these forums.
Artemisia wrote:It would be incredibly interesting to have Angel turn out to be neither male nor female...and be agender.
Or both?

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Re: 20-06-14 What kind of boyfriend are you

Post by Artemisia » Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:21 am

I was thinking of a friend of mine who is intersex, look kind of neither male nor female, and tends to be a bit gender fluid.
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Re: 20-06-14 What kind of boyfriend are you

Post by TwoWayStar » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:31 am

Spidrift wrote:
TwoWayStar wrote:Hmm, tbh I don't feel the writers compromise her strength at all! She gets a shock and she's momentarily stunned..then she takes a breath and keeps going. Otherwise we might've seen her in her room with her knees to her chest staring angrily at nothing or something. She can roll with the punches with the best of them, DESPITE her upbringing. That to me? Total core strength!
She let Dillon get away with saying that she screws around like a porn star. She keeps giving in to Dillon's requests when he turns on the waterworks. She let herself be bounced into dates with Andy - twice. She froze up for an extended period at the idea of a kiss. And she ran away when Amber showed up at the club, despite realising that she had no reason to do so.

A lot of this comes down to her not taking actions that block the plot - but that's the point. Making her a comedy character compromises the idea of her as a strong character.
See I don't see any of that as a lack of strength though..just evidence of her personality, politeness, shyness, and lastly her newfound ability to get flustered by something unexpected happening. But..she still doesn't let them knock her down. I've seen tons of characters that are super shy/awkward yet had an inner strength that other characters, when they stop being self-absorbed, admired or were impressed by. Just because she's in a comedy doesn't mean she can't be strong. But that's just how I view Ruby.

Also, sorry but using this "She froze up for an extended period at the idea of a kiss." as an example of not being strong seems very silly. Some people, fictional and real, are not physically experienced and I have no idea why that would make them not strong lol.

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Re: 20-06-14 What kind of boyfriend are you

Post by Spidrift » Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:17 am

It's not the lack of experience, it's the inability to handle a relatively minor issue without freezing up that looks ... unimpressive.

By the way, if anyone really wants to see Dillon suffer - note that he looks mostly furious there. What are the odds that he'll say something stupid and unkind to Ruby in the next few minutes, because she didn't help him sooner, or criticises his stupidity, or asks if he's faking the tears again? He's unlikely to hurt her too badly - she tries not to care about things like her own inexperience, and she'll still have Rudy available as a shield - but he could certainly annoy her. Dillon seems quite capable of pushing away the nearest thing he's got to a friend at the moment.

More likely, Ruby is going to be stuck with an awkward night of just comforting Dillon. But it's possible he's on the way to rock bottom.
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Re: 20-06-14 What kind of boyfriend are you

Post by Don Alexander » Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:35 pm

CFT wrote:The "payoff" of Angel being male would be that few dozen very observant readers (and/or forum readers) would find themselves non-satisfactory "tricked" by the writers into doubting Angel's gender for no reason.
Which is to be followed by ranting and raging, stating the comic has finally jumped the shark for them, and then them leaving in droves. :P
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Re: 20-06-14 What kind of boyfriend are you

Post by Gholateg » Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:14 am

Fluffy wrote:And in the following strip, Jerzy made it clear that Angel is a friend he's got deep roots with (they've been friends for a very long time) and she's not someone he can just throw away, just because Dillon doesn't approve of her.
Angel is a creepy fucking person, and repeatedly blows off Jerzy's feelings and wants for his own. That doesn't scream "Deep friendship" To me.
It has nothing to do with Dillion. In fact, Let's pretend Jerzy isn't with ANYONE. We can have all the Dillion nonsense go away and get to the issue of Jerzy and Angel. Sans Dillion.
Fluffy wrote:And no idea where you're getting the idea that by remaining friends with Angel, despite knowing she still wants him in a more physical relationship, means Jerzy is giving her false hope. (if he was encouraging her behavior, maybe I could see it - but when he gently turns her down every time she makes a hint at such things? Not so much).
"You are the most important person in my life." Doesn't reek of giving false hope to you? Really? Always being there, while knowing his new SO isn't a fan, knowing he's intentionally keeping his new SO in the dark about seeing Angel again. We're talking about someone who refuses to take a "Gentle hint" that "No we will not be a couple again." And repeatedly disavows Jerzy's feelings on the matter. He doesn;t care what Jerzy wants, Angel just wants Jerzy.
Fluffy wrote:And Angel has not screwed up Jerzy and Dillon's relationship by any stretch. No lie, she has tried (by telling Jerzy what she had witnessed) - but failed, because Jerzy refused to listen to her, each and every time. The relationship became screwed up because Dillon could not trust the fact that his boyfriend can remain friends with an ex without there being any cheating going on behind his back. He was caught spying on him, accused Jerzy outright of cheating on him (with no evidence to support his theory outside of hearing Jerzy mentioning how important Angel was to him) and vocally agreed that Jerzy was not the man for him.
For such a "Deep relationship" you would think Jerzy would listen to Angel about his liaisons. One would think he *had* listened to him before now and gotten burned by it. I know if *I* had a relationship that important,I'd want their POV on the person I was sticking things into. Angel is by no means the cause of this fight. Jerzy's being a sneaky ass and Dillion's being an over-excitable douche canoe are the reasons for the fight. Angel was just there to poke things to his advantage.
Fluffy wrote:Sure, Jerzy should have been honest about his plans for the evening (but then, how would Dillon have responded if Jerzy was completely honest? Bitch ranting and guilt tripping, I would guess) - but overall, their relationship was largely ruined by Dillon's trust issues.
Better then using a old friendship as a goad and all-but-forcing your potentially oldest friend to go against his better judgement, just so you can ogle him and maybe get in his pants again. Guilting someone who seems unable to leave you alone because "Friendship" isn't any better then guilting someone because "boyfriend"

Dillion's trust issues are one of the biggest issues yes. Jerzy's inability to handle those trust issues is another one. Jerzy's refusal to do more then pat angel on the head and say "not now dear, I'm banging this other person" is as much of an issue as anything else. If Jerzy is unable to handle those issues with the respect they need, and Dillion is unable to get past Matt's being a cheating fuckwad, then the relationship should end.
Fluffy wrote:Does a guy need to be aggressive when saying no in order for people to think he's being serious? Not all guys are like that.
He needs to be aggressive when someone is repeatedly refusing to listen to his wants for a sexual relationship. Angel wants Jerzy sex, Jerzy does not want sex with angel. Being nice about it is apparently not enough to get Angel to stop humping his leg. His refusal to do more to stop Angel is not a good thing, regardless of whoever he is currently in a relationship with.

Angel, hopefully, sees it as just a game. Jerzy playing hard to get. His being coddled is leading to his repeated attempts.
Because if he BELIEVED Jerzy, if he respected Jerzy as a human bloody being, he would HAVE STOPPED TRYING TO FUCK HIM WHEN JERZY SAID NO THE FIRST TIME.

There are *words* for people who are fully aware of a sexual relationship rejection and continue to press the issue.

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Re: 20-06-14 What kind of boyfriend are you

Post by Spidrift » Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:23 am

Something that should have set off reader alarm bells sooner; when Zii was in the room, Angel pushed Jerzy out, saying that Jerzy wasn't allowed to talk to Zii - and Jerzy let Angel do this. In the real world, that - controlling the other person's social contacts - is a red flag of the "for god's sake stage an intervention, we have a manipulative psycho here" level.

Incidentally, playing the prediction game... We'll probably see Dilla and Rudy on a night bus in tomorrow's strip, or falling through the door of the apartment. But I'd be quite amused if the current scene continued for one strip, with that random guy getting into Rudy's face - and then Rudy sweeps his legs out from under him, then drags Dilla away while muttering "Of course I took some self-defence classes. There's some very stupid men out there."

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Re: 20-06-14 What kind of boyfriend are you

Post by Don Alexander » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:16 pm

I just had the thought that even if he wanted to, Dillon likely can't go back to Matt either. Especially now with Ruby chaperoning him.
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Re: 20-06-14 What kind of boyfriend are you

Post by Spidrift » Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:17 pm

Well, he absolutely can't given what we last saw of Matt. But anyway, I suspect that Dillon is slightly too much of a romantic to react to breakup heartbreak by looking for bitter meaningless sex. Spending all night crying into his pillow is so much more satisfyingly dramatic - and it's what Amber, who knows him quite well, evidently either expects him to do or will be told he wants to do in the next strip.

Though I do wonder if Amber will get back to the apartment, discover Rudy's clothes scattered round the place, and suspect Dillon of out-of-character bitter breakup screwing.

Anyhow, Ruby gets stuck on Dillon watch duty. Hopefully she'll at least rack up some credit from him for that. I also kind of hope for her sake that Amber gets the full story eventually, because it could impress on her what Ruby is capable of.
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