17-06-14 Most important person

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Spidrift
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Re: 17-06-14 Most important person

Post by Spidrift »

Whisky-Tango-Foxtrot wrote:Regardless of Amber's initial impression of Rudy, it's far from clear what Ruby imagines him to be. She's probably still inventing the character in her own mind, and the only clear conclusion she's come to is that she can see and say things as Rudy that she can't as Ruby. (And there's been exactly ZERO evidence that Rudy [or Ruby, for that matter] has any tendency to drown his [or her] troubles in alcohol.)
Ruby seems to be constructing Rudy's character from those old TV shows she listed when she was initially planning this expedition with Dillon. ("1970s TV Fan" seems to be one of the standard reference points in Ruby's characterisation.) He's the snotty, snarky little small-time drug dealer who talks back to the big tough detectives. It's what came to her mind when Dillon talked about going undercover at a rock concert. And because she wants Rudy to be tough, and I think she (wrongly) doesn't see herself as tough, she has to play Rudy with an exaggerated attitude.

And tough streets types like "Rudy" don't usually admit to romantic impulses, but if they suffer them anyway... Well, there's only one standard response to such troubles - hit the bottle. What other options are there?
Fluffy wrote:Or Angel, for that matter (yeah, she's obsessed in getting Jerzy back into her life; despite his constant refusals - but at least she doesn't lie to him/stalk him).
I disagree. Angel's behaviour is certainly obsessive to near-stalking levels, and is pretty crazy given how clearly Jerzy has said that there's no chance. At least Dillon limited himself to mooncalf eyes and the occasional opportunist grope with Gary; Angel deliberately sets out to sabotage Jerzy's other relationships, and to control who Jerzy talks to (a classic red flag), as well as writing songs about him and flirting at every opportunity. He also keeps pointless grudges running for months or years.

God knows I find Dillon annoying, but he's mostly just an idiot camp romantic; barely "crazy" at all. It's also a kind of crazy that Jerzy actually likes, the idiot; note his comment about Dillon wearing his heart on his sleeve. Even this one instance of active stalking was triggered by some specific and somewhat justified suspicions. (Jerzy did all but lie to him about seeing Angel at this gig - and what do you know, Angel did take the opportunity to make yet another run at Jerzy.) Dillon is basically harmless; Angel verges on the downright scary. I could see him hiding in darkened rooms with carving knives.
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Bambikles
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Re: 17-06-14 Most important person

Post by Bambikles »

Oh come on, Angel simply acts like a possessive teenager.

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Spidrift
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Re: 17-06-14 Most important person

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"Possessive" of another person, note - and another person who treats him as a friend, at that. Plus, acting like Kevin the Teenager at his age is practically criminal.
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Cortez
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Re: 17-06-14 Most important person

Post by Cortez »

I don't know, Angel seems to be in the right in this case, she hasn't gone to the extremes Dillon has. And Jerzy still considers her a friend, so she can't be that bad.

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Spidrift
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Re: 17-06-14 Most important person

Post by Spidrift »

Jerzy is too nice. He kissed Dillon in front of Angel to reassure Dillon, then showed up to Angel's next gig to support him, all but lying to Dillon along the way. He doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but all that means is that both Angel and Dillon think that they have a chance with him, and have taken that as an excuse to snipe at each other. Even if Dillon hadn't been anywhere near this gig, the way he's acted towards Angel these last few minutes would have protracted the whole Angel problem for another few months. And letting Angel chuck him out of the room just because Zii was in there - when Zii is, like it or not, an old friend of his - was just encouraging Angel's childishness.

He needs to make a few more hard decisions and tell Angel a few more home truths, louder. Sure, it seems that he's about to get tough with Dillon - but it's Dillon he wants to sleep with, and Angel who he doesn't. However nuts Dillon has been, this is just making things worse for himself. His taste in "friends" is, as Ruby said, his biggest fault.

As to going to extremes - Angel wants to "crush" Zii, jumped on every opportunity to stir up trouble between Jerzy and Dillon, and basically stops listening whenever Jerzy says that they aren't getting back together. All those tantrums and sulks are childish at best, insane at worst. Dillon acted like a rather creepy loon by disguising himself to spy on Jerzy, sure, but for silly rather than scary motives. The way Angel acts, well, I wouldn't want Angel thinking of me as a problem...
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Cortez
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Re: 17-06-14 Most important person

Post by Cortez »

But the thing is, even Angel thought what Dillon was doing was obsessive, so it would seem she has standards.

And don't forget, Zii wasn't just an old friend, she was the person Jerzy cheated on Angel with and he probably know Angel is still sour about it. So clearly letting Angel chuck him out was the right thing to do, especially since he's the reason Angel and Zii hate each other.

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Re: 17-06-14 Most important person

Post by Jadeitea »

Cortez wrote:But the thing is, even Angel thought what Dillon was doing was obsessive, so it would seem she has standards.
OR, she just called it obsessive in case Jerzy didn't see it himself - I think it was another try to break them up, rather than genuine shock. Angel's just as obsessed, judging from her inability to take a hint when Jerzy's told her clearly (numerous times) he wasn't interested.

EDIT: Yes, I came out of the lurking just to post that.

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Spidrift
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Re: 17-06-14 Most important person

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Cortez wrote:But the thing is, even Angel thought what Dillon was doing was obsessive, so it would seem she has standards.
Or Angel is a screaming hypocrite. Which I think was rather the joke there.
Cortez wrote:And don't forget, Zii wasn't just an old friend, she was the person Jerzy cheated on Angel with and he probably know Angel is still sour about it. So clearly letting Angel chuck him out was the right thing to do, especially since he's the reason Angel and Zii hate each other.
Jerzy prefers to keep Angel happy rather than stand by his friendship, if any, with Zii - and he doesn't seem to hate Zii, judging by the way he was happy to see Angel and Zii shaking hands. Fair enough, who he calls a friend is his business. But Angel was being petty and childish there, as Jerzy should recognise; after all, he let Zii seduce him, perfectly reasonably in that he didn't see himself as Angel's boyfriend and he was presumably unattached at the time, and Zii keeps saying that there was no intent to offend.

And dictating who your friends can talk to, pushing them physically out of the room rather than let them talk or make their own decision? That's really creepy and controlling. It really is a classic "abusive relationship" red flag, in fact. Jerzy should be hearing alarm bells right there. So Angel is being a controlling emotional bully, and Jerzy is allowing it.
Jadeitea wrote:OR, she just called it obsessive in case Jerzy didn't see it himself - I think it was another try to break them up, rather than genuine shock. Angel's just as obsessed, judging from her inability to take a hint when Jerzy's told her clearly (numerous times) he wasn't interested.
Exactly. Angel is either hypocritical or willfully blind.
Jadeitea wrote:EDIT: Yes, I came out of the lurking just to post that.
And you're very welcome here.
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Cortez
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Re: 17-06-14 Most important person

Post by Cortez »

Jadeitea wrote:
OR, she just called it obsessive in case Jerzy didn't see it himself - I think it was another try to break them up, rather than genuine shock. Angel's just as obsessed, judging from her inability to take a hint when Jerzy's told her clearly (numerous times) he wasn't interested.

.
Her pause before she says "That's creepy and obsessive", says otherwise. Basically saying "Wow, that's creepy even by my standards".

Spidrift wrote:
Cortez wrote:But the thing is, even Angel thought what Dillon was doing was obsessive, so it would seem she has standards.
Or Angel is a screaming hypocrite. Which I think was rather the joke there.
Not really, since Angel hasn't disguised herself to stalk Jerzy.
Cortez wrote: Jerzy prefers to keep Angel happy rather than stand by his friendship, if any, with Zii - and he doesn't seem to hate Zii, judging by the way he was happy to see Angel and Zii shaking hands. Fair enough, who he calls a friend is his business. But Angel was being petty and childish there, as Jerzy should recognise; after all, he let Zii seduce him, perfectly reasonably in that he didn't see himself as Angel's boyfriend
Except it was made clear that this happened when Jerzy and Angel were still together, so Angels anger is justified. But you are right in that Jerzy is just at fault as Zii is. Zii may not have asked if he was in a relationship, but neither did he tell her he was seeing someone.

And Jerzy was only happy when he saw Zii because he thought Zii and Jerzy had made amends, but knows now that is not the case. He had no problem telling Angel that Zii was not as good a she was after all. And Jerzy valuing his friendship with Angel than his fling with Zii makes sense since he has known Angel longer and the first time he met Zii was when they had sex(Since she didn't know who he was).
And dictating who your friends can talk to, pushing them physically out of the room rather than let them talk or make their own decision? That's really creepy and controlling. It really is a classic "abusive relationship" red flag, in fact. Jerzy should be hearing alarm bells right there. So Angel is being a controlling emotional bully, and Jerzy is allowing it.
Not really, since again(And this is an important point you are ignoring) Zii was the one jerzy cheated on Angel with.

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Spidrift
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Re: 17-06-14 Most important person

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Angel is creepy and obsessive. Therefore Angel calling Dillon creepy and obsessive is hypocritical, even if Dillon is being creepy and obsessive in a different way.

And Jerzy and Angel apparently had a single drunken one-night stand. According to Jerzy, they were never a couple. So from Jerzy's point of view, he was never in a situation were screwing Zii was being unfaithful to Angel. Tactless and unwise, maybe, and he's not proud of it, but nothing that Angel is actually entitled to blame Zii for.
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Re: 17-06-14 Most important person

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Spidrift wrote:"Possessive" of another person, note - and another person who treats him as a friend, at that. Plus, acting like Kevin the Teenager at his age is practically criminal.
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Re: 17-06-14 Most important person

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Cortez wrote:I don't know, Angel seems to be in the right in this case, she hasn't gone to the extremes Dillon has. And Jerzy still considers her a friend, so she can't be that bad.
Angel is a guy.
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CFT
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Re: 17-06-14 Most important person

Post by CFT »

Not Really (or at least not so certainly as you think).

As it has been discussed to death in the past, Angel entering the ladies bathroom in this page seems to be a very strong indication that the writers deliberately tried to trick us about Angel's gender up until that point (by having Dillon and Ruby assume he's a guy, among other clues). Combined with the fact that the people who actually know Angel (Jerzy, Zii, Yuki) never mention any pronouns (or give any other gender indications) when talking about Angel, it seems that we're in for an important plot-relevant reveal on the issue. In fact, I could bet that the reveal is coming very soon, even in today's upcoming page, with Jerzy saying something like "why are you so jealous about Angel? You know I no longer date girls" to totally short-circuit Dillon.
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vampire hunter D
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Re: 17-06-14 Most important person

Post by vampire hunter D »

MonCappy wrote:
Cortez wrote:I don't know, Angel seems to be in the right in this case, she hasn't gone to the extremes Dillon has. And Jerzy still considers her a friend, so she can't be that bad.
Angel is a guy.
Is it?
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Spidrift
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Re: 17-06-14 Most important person

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CFT wrote:As it has been discussed ...
Dead right. This board really needs a FAQ, and the top item in it should say No, the readers don't know Angel's gender. Deal with it.
CFT wrote:In fact, I could bet that the reveal is coming very soon, even in today's upcoming page, with Jerzy saying something like "why are you so jealous about Angel? You know I no longer date girls" to totally short-circuit Dillon.
That's where I have to disagree. I suspect that the writers are having far too much fun with this game to drop it so quickly. Angel may turn out to be this universe's incarnation of Vaarsuvius - the visuals are almost right, after all.

Anyway, we know that Dillon is heading home alone and crying. Aside from the fact that Amber said so, it's a new way for the writers to annoy Ruby, so it's got to happen.
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