29-04-13 Could this be Dillon

[Spidrift]

For me, it's not so much that flawed characters are better than perfect, it's that ... interesting characters are better than boring. "Perfect" characters who face genuine challenges can just about work, and flawed characters who consist of little but their flaws, and who progress solely by arbitrary random changes, can be more boring than "better" characters who have a bit of subtlety. And Ruby... Disagree as anyone will, she's got a kind of tough flaky grittiness that appeals to me, and some hints of complexity.

Plus it's fun to have an Ma3/SDB character who can "It's all about sex with you, isn't it?" with a straight face. Diversity is cool.

As to TV Tropes - it's basically a dangerously effective trigger for geeky obsessiveness. Readers can spend hours chasing up half-remembered references, checking if things that "obviously" belong there get their mention, and yelling at the screen in disagreement. It's not everyone's bag, but it's effective at that thing.

[Bambikles]

Am I actually the only person round here who likes Ruby, enough to bother explaining why? I mean, sure, annoying, aggressive, damaged, socially incompetent, yeah, yeah, all that - but these comics seem to have a big geek readership; do they really not recognise one of their own, and instinctively stand by her?

Ruby is not your usual geek. To date, we only saw her love for what I understand to be an incredibly dated and out-of-fashion (disco level of out of fashion ?) TV show. Which most people here find lame and of bad quality. This is what I deduced from comments.

Not your typical geekiness. Where is the love for science, for informatics, for so bad it's good films, for manga, for comics, for games, for whatever awkward but endearing hobby ? We haven't seen this. Plus her contempt towards sex is faaaaar away from the attitude of most geeks who are rather "I'd like to, I don't know how to, or never get the chance". So no, most geeks won't recognize Ruby as "one of their own". I add that Ruby's abrasiveness, if it makes her a great comedy character, is a major turn-off for most of the geek who would prefer a sweet, tender, loving and uncomplicated partner who would'nt chastise and berate them at the first occasion. Not that some people wouldn't be interested by the fantasy of making her blossom and molding her according their tastes (too much work and probably too depressing as far as I'm concerned). But I doubt it would be the majority, given most of the geeks are pathologically shy. Ruby's agressivenes doesn't put her in the "shy people" territory.

So, closely inspected, save for redheadedness, short skirt and glasses, Ruby has few qualities to appeal to geeks. She doesn't look like them. She's more of a nerd, I think

Plus there is the little fact that everyone wants to see themselves to be better represented than they really are. Marketing and advertising know this well. You can't sell a product to a segment of population using people of that segment. You have to use younger people, because people see themselves younger than they are. Change age issues with other elements and you've got the picture. Gary is handsome, and he takes a big share of negative judgment. Imagine what it would be if he was depicted like a realist geek, i.e. less handsome, less adorkable, but kinda creepy with unsavoury sexual fantasies (come on, tentacle porn ?).

So hum, coming back to Ruby, I like her because she's a good comedy protagonist, she's funny, she's kind of a twisted Only Sane Woman and/of Fish Out Of Water. I find her figure, her hair and her glasses somehow erotic. The issue for some people is that she appears to them to be extremely rude and/or ungrateful for someone who's going to live under someone else's roof. Apparently it's a big no-no for them.

In my eyes, she comes of as unpleasant to be around, but she did nothing particularly offensive. The love egg was in the bed and had probably not been cleaned after use (because it wouldn't have been in the bed otherwise). It's not uncommon in fiction to have a character at look the back of a photo to see if there is something written who would help them identify who are the people involved.

The one thing I find offensive and annoying is her androphobia that I find incredibly stupid (I find androphobia in general to be incredibly stupid and offensive. We're trying to fight misogyny, it's not to allow the reverse stupidity ). I don't give a f*** she has reasons. This is bigotry and prejudice and she must get over this as soon as possible.

This is harsh, but I never ever forget that Ruby is mentally damaged, that she is broken. Many behaviour can be excused by that, because she is ill. The same goes for Yuki. They're ill and I feel compassion for them. I hope one day they'll be fixed and they can live happy with a significant other who makes them feel good and whom they are able to make feel good too.

EDIT: spelling, typo, grammar, as usual

[brasca]

Am I actually the only person round here who likes Ruby, enough to bother explaining why? I mean, sure, annoying, aggressive, damaged, socially incompetent, yeah, yeah, all that - but these comics seem to have a big geek readership; do they really not recognise one of their own, and instinctively stand by her?

(Or are most of them just Gary-style twits-with-Transformers-fixations, instead of real geeks?)

Though if we're talking casual geekiness - am I also the only reader who's noticed that she seems to have been characterised with the TV Tropes notes on the broken bird open full time?

That's a quite hilarious idea. I think Ruby would have an aneurysm.

More likely the cerebral bleeding would be Gary's. Ruby doesn't seem given to physical violence, but her verbal response there - once she'd recovered the power of speech - would be worth watching. I doubt that Amber would be best pleased, either, once she found out what happened; she's only seen Gary being cutely stupid up until now.

Double post merged. The DAMNed

I like her for a lot of the reasons you just stated. She's a little like Kiley (also my favorite) only Ruby is more career driven than obsessed with her appearance.

I also like her because she resembles the character of Helen from Penny & Aggie a strip. http://www.pennyandaggie.com/index.php?p=764

Gisele was the artist for most of it's run and I defended Helen tenaciously when she was a figure of derision by most people on the message board. Fun times. Aside from her hair style and age (Helen was a high schooler) there aren't too many similarities beyond physical. However, while Ruby has some issues, Helen really was damaged, and it was largely due to being unwanted by her family and so desperate for her peer's affection that it got her into some trouble. Ultimately, she ran away from home and into another strip, Something Positive and where she currently rooms with Nancy ever since. Coincidentally, she stumbled on her new roommate's sex toys, but handled it with a lot more maturity than Ruby.http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp03012010.shtml

As such I'm going to stick around reading this because Ruby interests me and I'm nostalgic for those old arguments.

[themacnut]

Am I actually the only person round here who likes Ruby, enough to bother explaining why? I mean, sure, annoying, aggressive, damaged, socially incompetent, yeah, yeah, all that - but these comics seem to have a big geek readership; do they really not recognise one of their own, and instinctively stand by her?

Ruby is not your usual geek. To date, we only saw her love for what I understand to be an incredibly dated and out-of-fashion (disco level of out of fashion ?) TV show. Which most people here find lame and of bad quality. This is what I deduced from comments.

Not your typical geekiness. Where is the love for science, for informatics, for so bad it's good films, for manga, for comics, for games, for whatever awkward but endearing hobby ? We haven't seen this. Plus her contempt towards sex is faaaaar away from the attitude of most geeks who are rather "I'd like to, I don't know how to, or never get the chance". So no, most geeks won't recognize Ruby as "one of their own". I add that Ruby's abrasiveness, if it makes her a great comedy character, is a major turn-off for most of the geek who would prefer a sweet, tender, loving and uncomplicated partner who would'nt chastise and berate them at the first occasion.

Yeah, basically what Bambikles said. If Ruby is a geek, she's an obnoxious, even arrogant geek, a geek whose personality quirks would irritate the hell out of anyone around her for more than 5 seconds. She's the kind of geek who, when you see them getting beaten up by a bully in the schoolyard, you tend to root for the bully. Only family can really tolerate them for any length of time, hence her being "dumped" on Amber.

And how much of a geek is she really? Like Bambikles said, she's so far shown no love for the usual geek interests/obsessions, and I get the distinct impression she'd have and show nothing but contempt for those who do. That's not going to endear her to most fellow geeks at all. And her lack of interest in sex? For most geeks, especially of the male persuasion, that just Does. Not. Compute. Yes, she looks very cute, and seems like someone a guy would enjoy bringing out of her shell...right up until she opens her mouth. Then most guys would just put up their hands in the sign of the cross and run away. Can you really blame those here who aren't fond of her?

[Spidrift]

Okay, more nerd than geek, if either of those terms have rigid definitions. And of course, lots of people will admit to being geeks; Hollywood has proclaimed that geeks can be cool, and being a geek on modern terms is pretty easy. Nerds, on the other hand, are ... the people who geeks can bully.

Sigh. Some of us can remember the time when only nerds wanted to be geeks.

But Ruby is still one of my clan. And I still live in the hope that we'll see her taser Dillon.

[themacnut]

And I still live in the hope that we'll see her taser Dillon.

Heh heh heh. On that Spi, we can most definitely agree.

[Vielfras]

But Ruby is still one of my clan. And I still live in the hope that we'll see her taser Dillon.

Sorry for bursting you bubble of hope but...
Her interaction with Amber is not an indicator of how she normally acts as she has a complicated love/hate relationship with her "perfect sister". I believe that when a person Ruby doesn't know is in the vicinity her personality does an 180.

Also, I think Ruby already knows that Dillon is gay, she just doesn't know he's Dillon.
An excuse to get close

She didn't freak out and instead apologized, and explained calmly. Something most characters in this universe do very rarely and never that fast.

The one thing I find offensive and annoying is her androphobia that I find incredibly stupid (I find androphobia in general to be incredibly stupid and offensive. We're trying to fight misogyny, it's not to allow the reverse stupidity ). I don't give a f*** she has reasons. This is bigotry and prejudice and she must get over this as soon as possible.

This is harsh, but I never ever forget that Ruby is mentally damaged, that she is broken. Many behaviour can be excused by that, because she is ill. The same goes for Yuki. They're ill and I feel compassion for them. I hope one day they'll be fixed and they can live happy with a significant other who makes them feel good and whom they are able to make feel good too.

Someone please explain this to me.
I never got from the strip that Ruby had androphobia... and to say she is mentally damaged and broken is going way to far!
Ruby is already leading a perfectly happy lifestyle. It may not be considered normal but some carrier oriented, female and male alike, lead a happy life without ever getting married or even trying to look for relationships. She finished university and has come to look for a job in the big city, where exactly is she suffering?

Maybe I missed something while reading and if so I hope someone can link me to the page where it becomes clear that she is suffering from androphobia.

[Bambikles]

Someone please explain this to me.
I never got from the strip that Ruby had androphobia... and to say she is mentally damaged and broken is going way to far!
Ruby is already leading a perfectly happy lifestyle. It may not be considered normal but some carrier oriented, female and male alike, lead a happy life without ever getting married or even trying to look for relationships. She finished university and has come to look for a job in the big city, where exactly is she suffering?

Maybe I missed something while reading and if so I hope someone can link me to the page where it becomes clear that she is suffering from androphobia.

The words were maybe a bit strong. But I don't think of Ruby as "happy".
She's bitter towards her sister (justified) and her parents (perhaps not so justified, we will see more I hope). And this bitterness and her contempt for Amber and how she had her first contact with sexuality clearly messed her up. She was 14 (answer from Giz) when she was at the party where she saw Amber's porn. This drastically shaped her views on sex and boys, making her wanting to have as little interaction with those two things as possible. Plus she has to keep Amber's secret.

Ruby didn't make a choice. She didn't really chose to not have relationships given she, to date and according to what we can deduce, has not even tried. She didn't have or take the occasion to change her mind about romance, let alone sex, because of everything negative she personaly associates with boys, sex, and Amber. She is damaged* therefore her lifestyle is not a real choice. If she experiments a bit of romance, maybe sex and finally decides she is better off without these, then it would be a much healthier choice. It would be HER choice, not one made because of psychological issues born of a trauma.

*(seeing her sibling in sex, and seeing it PUBLICLY to boot [given she says "Those stupid boys at the party"]. The only worse thing would be that those boys knew Ruby was Amber's sister or if she blurted it out.)

As for her androphobia, she assumed Dillon was a perverted without knowing him simply because he's a man (in the panel where the nightgown first appears), considers them untidy, etc. That doesn't mean she cannot work with boys, I suppose. Ruby is stuck with the childlike persona of "boys are yuck". Imagine how ridiculous, comical and offensive it would be for a grown-up man to be the same.
Ok, this is kinda weak.
The consensus is that Ruby doesn't like men. To what extent we still really don't know. What is certain is that she does'nt want romance and she doesn't want a male roommate. Then there are the reasons: men are all pervy and untidy. The point here is ALL. This is the generalization that is problematic.

But maybe "androphobia" was too strong of a word. Blame me then.

EDIT: Now, who will dare to say Ruby is not an interesting character ?

[Spidrift]

To repeat: It strikes me that Ruby has a phobia about sex, not a phobia about men. The person we've seen her being persistently crappy towards is Amber, who isn't a man but who she associates with sexuality; in her brief interaction with Dillon and Jerzy, she was indeed apologetic about accidentally flashing them, rather than accusing them of looking deliberately or whatever. Yes, she assumed that Dillon would be "pervy" when Amber mentioned him, but that mention showed that Dillon was a friend of Amber's - part of Amber's horrible, sexualised world, in her mind.

And no, she's not going to assault Dillon just because he's a man. That comment was a joke, anyway. But the original idea, courtesy of themacnut, was that Dillon might wander in on Ruby unexpectedly during the night, and meet whatever measures she considers appropriate when dealing with possible rapists. Unfortunately, I think that Canada has civilised laws about self-defence weaponry, so this isn't enough of a serious possibility, but we can live in hope.

The only worse thing would be that those boys knew Ruby was Amber's sister or if she blurted it out.

Actually, it will have been just as bad if no one else knew or recognised Amber in that film. Can you imagine a 14-year-old girl at a party full of sniggering teenage boys, who's just recognised that the woman doing those weird things in that weird film was actually her "perfect" big sister? With her unable to say anything to anyone else in the room about it, and not knowing who she could talk to? It's really quite a horrible idea. Like I said before, I see SDB as more melodrama and less comedy than Ma3, and I'm not too surprised that Ruby still despises Amber.

['J']

Okay, more nerd than geek, if either of those terms have rigid definitions. And of course, lots of people will admit to being geeks; Hollywood has proclaimed that geeks can be cool, and being a geek on modern terms is pretty easy. Nerds, on the other hand, are ... the people who geeks can bully.

Sigh. Some of us can remember the time when only nerds wanted to be geeks.

But Ruby is still one of my clan. And I still live in the hope that we'll see her taser Dillon.

and the nerds bully the dorks.

and the dorks bully the dweebs.

where does it end?


frankly, i hate tribalism.

[Spidrift]

It ends with a peace treaty, of course.

Anyhow, geeks aren't a tribe any more. They're a fashion category. The final nail in the coffin was the invention of the word "adorkable".