The Discussion Dojo

[ShadowRaven]

Shrimp. Tai Chi Chuan is a beautiful style to learn if you are seeking mental and physical discipline without the martial aspect. It can be very martial, and a good instructor will point that out, and show how it works in self deffence, but primarilly in this day and age anyway, it is generally viewed much like yoga. Jiujutsu/jujitsu/jujutsu on the other hand is not. Traditionally taught it is a fighting style first and foremost. It has many benefits, but if you are looking for a peaceful art, It's probably not where you should be looking.

Now, if you are looking for a mental and physically disciplined art that is of no practicle use in fighting, I would strongly recomend you look at iaido and traditional kenjutsu, if you have access to a school that teaches it. Both are beautiful, and quite impressive forms to study, but as I don't expect you to be walking down the street with a katana, not going to be very practicle.

My own style of Goju ryu, which translates almost literally as hard-soft style is another one that has much of the same benefits as Tai Chi, only is more martially oriented. It holds it's origins in traditional White Crane Kung Fu and has many of the flowing movements associated with that style, mixed with very 'hard' moves such as punches, knee and elbow strikes, etc.

Also there is Tae Kwan Do. SaBom can tell you much more about that, but depending on the dojang, and the instructor, you will get various ways of viewing the art. Some brutally combative, others not at all.

One thing I will warn you about though is to be on the look out for 'fake masters' It was more of a problem back in the 70's when Bruce Lee movies, and the Hong Kong Kung Fu craze was in it's height, but with the popularity of things like the UFC it has begun to pop up more and more. Always, and I do mean always, before giveing a new school a try, learn what you can about that style on the internet. If you can't find anything more then a wiki page on it, odds are it doesn't exist. Also, watch out for mentioning things like 'trained SWAT teams' "Special Forces" that sort of thing. Yes, there are schools out there who the instructors really have done that, but ussually it is a lie. Many times these instructors got dissillusioned with whatever training they did have, never completed their training (less then 10% of those who begin a martial art ever reach the rank of black belt or it's equivalent) but think they can teach :roll: Once in a while you find one that pops up that is truely dellusional, and honestly believes themselves to be a master. Never met one myself, but I've heared some horror stories. There are even some who have had no more martial art training then a Tae Bo video. These I have seen in tournaments, they make me sad.

Anyway, if you find an art you like, I hope you stick with it, and learn the fundimentals, not of fighting alone, but of when to, and how not to, and how to simpley be a better person.

[midgetshrimp]

[quote"ShadowRaven"]...but as I don't expect you to be walking down the street with a katana...[/quote]

Aww... what am I supposed to do with all these BudK magazines then?

I worked with someone who is a black belt in Tae Kwon Do, and I'm not really interested in that (no offens SaBom). I just took Jujutsu for something physical to do during my stay on campus, but I wouldn't continue it. Tai Chi Chuan sounds about right. I've heard of Goju Ryu though I've never seen it or know much about it. I'll do some research over the weekend, when I actually have the time to do something other than drive to and from school.

[SaBomJon]

I worked with someone who is a black belt in Tae Kwon Do, and I'm not really interested in that (no offens SaBom).

None taken, MS. Actually, Tae Kwon Do wasn't my first martial art. I had trained for five years in Tang Soo Do, a similar Korean art that wasn't as sport oriented as TKD. I got up to 3rd Gup (red belt) before I graduated college, and there weren't and Tang Soo Do do-jahngs around, so I had to settle for the next best thing. What I've come to do is sort of synthesize the teachings I've gleaned from TSD (from a very thorough and strict, yet awesome instructor) and apply them to my TKD art. It's what one ultimately does...take what is learned, and learn to make it their own.

Goju Ryu Karate is an Karate style that accents both hard and soft techniques (Go= Hard, Ju=Soft/Gentle) and train in the balance of both. I've watched documentaries on The Discovery Channel that spotlighted this style. If I had the option to fit any Japanese style training into my style, I would want to check it out.

Now, if you are looking for a mental and physically disciplined art that is of no practicle use in fighting, I would strongly recomend you look at iaido and traditional kenjutsu, if you have access to a school that teaches it. Both are beautiful, and quite impressive forms to study, but as I don't expect you to be walking down the street with a katana, not going to be very practicle.

It's very interesting that you mention Iaido/Kenjutsu, ShadowRaven.....I've always been nuts about swords..must've been they impression that Luke Skywalker and Old Obi-Wan imbedded into my developing brain as a young child. :lol: But I am also training to get to black belt/instructor status in Haidong Gumdo, a Korean art that uses a sword similar to the Japanese katana. I have studied and practiced Japanese sword drills (drawing, cutting, sheathing), but I find that HDGD is a lot more fluid and uses the curved shape of the blade more effectively.

There are no drills practiced from the floor, the basics are practiced in some challenging stances, and the forms are really something to see. This is not KUMDO, which is more or less the Korean version of Kendo, we study sword cutting applications, and we cut paper, fruit, and so far, rolled up straw mats. Some students have had the pleasure of cutting bamboo, something that is more difficult to do than one can realize.

Now, I don't see myself strapping on my Jin-Gum (sharp sword) and go walking down the middle of downtown Minneapolis anytime soon myself, but I would agree that the goal with any of the asian sword arts is that you are doing more than cutting at a target or empty air, you are cutting down your own negative thoughts and emotions, so that only the constructive remain.

[ShadowRaven]

Yeah. The Lightsaber duel between Obi-wan and Vader on the first Death Star, and then the one between Luke and Vader on the second had a similar influence on me. Since then I have been a Star Wars and a sword junkie. My only dissapointment is that where I live there is no place near by to learn it. I have had some very basic teaching, and worked on improveing what I was shown with the sword, but there is so much more I want to learn and haven't the access to. Is sad.

[ShadowRaven]

Wellt he grand opening of our new honbu (home) dojo was today, and it went quite well. Of all the dojo I have been in, this is one of the nicest. Haveing a feeling of serenity to it in it's decor, and a very relaxing atmospher all around.

I've pictures if any wish to see them.

[SaBomJon]

Well, I blame the server change-over for the fact that my last comment here didn't register. To reiterate, I am glad that the new digs are working out. There's always a period of adjustment to any new dojo (do-jahng). It comes across especially when trying to teach a person where to move when doing a kata and you forget where the landmarks are.

I'm currently filling in for my friend who's a rank higher than me. It's been fun actually getting to work with students who normally don't show up on my regular nights there. It's like anything else, you have the students you are familiar with, and you can predict how they're going to pick up something new, or what they need to strengthen their skills in. Having that get shook up is a good thing...keeps me on my toes.

Also getting ready for my weekend of sword demos at the local Renaissance Festival. Gotta get some good cutting in before then.

[Bear]

I seriously don't get why people think Chuck Noris is so tough... He's a pansy compared to many other people. He trained Under Bruce Lee, so Bruce Lee was tougher... and many people consider Jackie Chan and Jet li to be tougher then Bruce Lee, so Chuck is even less tough... And as for Steve Iwen... I'd like to see Chuck wrestle a 12 foot crocodile for a living.

Whatever else you say about Steve, he was devoted to conservation and protecting animals and saving Australias native speices. He may have been a beer swilling occa, but he had more pride and heart in Australia then most of the nation put together.

[Bear]

I'd like to see Bruce Lee beat someone up with an umberella like Jackie Chan can.

[midgetshrimp]

Do some research on Bruce Lee, Jeet Kune Do, and find some videos of him (especially his one inch punch). That man was in such amazing physical condition it's unbelievable. Unfortunately, using druglords or whatever to promote your films isn't the best way to get out of a financial pinch.

I've seen a couple videos of Bruce Lee beating the crap out of Chuck Norris in some of his movies. It's funny. It also makes you realize how old Chuck Norris is.

As for Jackie Chan and Jet Li... I don't know too much about Jet Li. I know he's won quite a few MA championships in specific forms, and that he's a very charitable person... and that I think most of his movies are trash. But beyond that, I can't say much. I've seen documentaries on Jackie Chan, seen how he goes through making movies, his stunts, his propwork. It's pretty crazy what that guy knows and can do.

Out of the four of them, I'd list from toughest to weakest as such: Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Jet Li, Chuck Norris. I do have a lot of respect for all of them, their abilities, and what they've done for their respective communities.

[Bear]

Jackie Chan used to do ALL of his own stunts until unless he wasn't qualified, IE. Driving a hovercraft. He's only stopped now because of Health and Safety's interferance and being told with all the breaks he's had some stunts are just too risky. You have to respect a man who knowingly jumps accross a 30 foot gap between buildings for a stunt and who has litterally broken every limb, busted ribs etc to get the stunts for his fans. Heck, he was even a stuntman on Bruce Lees movies in his younger days.

And I've seen those movies of Bruce Lee beating the crap out of Chuck too.. makes you realise what a pansy Chuck really is.

[Scaramouche]

I'm pretty sure Chuck could kick the crap out of me without breaking a sweat. As for losing in movies, well, that's in movies. Doesn't really tell us much. Although my bet is Bruce Lee would kick the crap out of many people.

Jet Li isn't any kind of warrior. He's a phenomenal athlete, but no warrior. He never trained in any actual martial art (martial arts being combat techniques, thus the use of the word martial). He trained in non-combat sports which mimic martial arts. Cartwheels and flips and stuff. Like many martial arts these days, it's stuff which may have been based on practicing for war once upon a time, but now is just jumping around and doing forms and styles.

Jackie Chan is similar. He trained in a performing arts school, and performing arts in such schools includes the same sort of non-combat martial arts. Lots of cartwheels and jumping around.

While I think Jackie Chan and Jet Li rock, and are phenomenal athletes, I don't think it's very accurate to call them martial artists.

[Bear]

You really don't know Jackie Chan then when he's qualified in multiple martial arts styles including most notably hapkido, tae kwondo, judo, shaolin and wing chun kung fu. And of course, the style that made him famous in Druken Master, Zui Quan.

Jet Li I'll admit to maybe isn't as his primary style and qaulifications is in Wushu, which is known as a prerformance art rather then a combat art.

And I'll point out that Bruce Lee had his start in Cantonese opera movies long before his martial arts carear.

[midgetshrimp]

And I'll point out that Bruce Lee had his start in Cantonese opera movies long before his martial arts carear.

But we can let that slide, considering he created his own martial art that he only allowed three others the title to teach it. I think only one of them is still alive.

[Scaramouche]

You really don't know Jackie Chan then when he's qualified in multiple martial arts styles including most notably hapkido, tae kwondo, judo, shaolin and wing chun kung fu. And of course, the style that made him famous in Druken Master, Zui Quan.

Jet Li I'll admit to maybe isn't as his primary style and qaulifications is in Wushu, which is known as a prerformance art rather then a combat art.

And I'll point out that Bruce Lee had his start in Cantonese opera movies long before his martial arts carear.

Very few alleged martial arts taken by the public these days are actual martial arts. They're more about physical exercise, doing forms, and flipping around. Even Shaolin is little more than a demo sport, despite its history.

[Bear]

I'd like to see you go up to a shaolin kung fu master and say that since Shaolin Kung-fu is the route form for many martial arts styles.