Weird scenario's thread.

[Tenjen]

heres something ive been meaning to do.

Every now and then. well actually VERY OFTEN, just not as often as i used to do so, i would think up of an impossible or unlikely scenario, or a possible but as yet non existing one, or one that could exist. Just to imagine and mentally explore them.

It occured to me that others would be having these sorta thoughts as well. That we may want to discuss them even.

Now please be kind. Discuss a persons contribution if you can, but dont butt in with your own in the middle of a discussion. This way we get to explore everyones creations.

As for an example. Well. Recently i myself have been wondering about teleportation.

Say a teleportation device is made, which demoleculises you and remoleculises you at another spot. Successfully. The person appearing on the other end has no defects and is exactly the same as teh person who went in. In bahaviorial and in physical manner.

But say. What if [lets assume "IF" is "IS"] the teleportion is actually killing you during the demol process and the remol'ed person is actually another person, but with your molecules and memories and everything. The new person doesnt realise the "death" at all and for all viewable evidance and from even their own memories, they remember walking into the machine and coming back out. But you, the person walking into the demol, are dead. Your deceased, ceased to exist and are now void, ascended/descended, etc [whichever you like]. The new you is you in all aspects. but is a new consciousness. you, being the old mortal coils consciousness, are departed.

And people, strangers, friends, lovers, family members, YOU, [and the "new ones"] use this teleportation device everyday multiple times. Everyone across the world. Not knowing that they're killing themselves when they step through and theres no proof or evidance of it happening.

--- no purpose or point that iam making here, just a scenario which occured to me.

[cyanide_sweet]

So just to make sure I completely get what your saying, the non-dead you that comes out the other side of the teleporting machine, is the same in every way, like a clone? And the old you is just gone? So no-one notices the difference?

[Don Alexander]

So just to make sure I completely get what your saying, the non-dead you that comes out the other side of the teleporting machine, is the same in every way, like a clone? And the old you is just gone? So no-one notices the difference?

I actually haven't gotten around to reading Tenjen's initial post but that summary just made me go "Whafuck?" and then my head exploded...

[cyanide_sweet]

I actually haven't gotten around to reading Tenjen's initial post but that summary just made me go "Whafuck?" and then my head exploded...

That's what us Sithlings are here for

[thaldin]

Actually it's funny you bring this up, Tenjen. Being that the whole transporter thing is of course big in Star Trek, one of the characters in the show used to dislike using it because of exactly what you are saying. The device would have to demolecularize (rip apart on an atomic level) the item to send it to be reassembled else where.

In theory, if every molecule is sent across and rebuilt, is it a different person? Now if it's just a pattern that's reconstructed from new material on the destination side, then... well yes, I guess techinically the person has been killed and brought back as they have ceased to exist in the time it took to send and reconstruct them.

[Bear]

In theory... if the end result is made up from the origional matter, its still you as its everything that made you. If the end result is made from new matter, then yes.. you are very much dead as essentially, the you at the other end is a clone.

In effect, this happened on a Star Trek episode, If the transport essentially reads your pattern, breaks it down into a stream of energy that can be transmitted and is sent through a pattern buffer, your pattern could be reconstructed in multiple places if your just broken down into a code. The you sent is a copy of the origional, and techniclly, could be copied multiple times. The episode in question had Riker transported, but during transport, his pattern signal was both received, and reflected back to the origional transporter in effect cloning him exactly.

If it works by matter being turned into energy, that energy being transmitted, then being changed back into matter, then in effect it is compeltely you. You could say in effects its like an object being broken down into its parts, shipped somewhere with instructions on how to make it, and rebuilt. Its still the origional item, despite having been broken down.

The other way, of the item being broken down to copy its pattern, then just the information being sent.. well thats just a copy of the origional rather then the origional, and if its just the instructions.. as I said before... whats stopping someone with enough parts from making thousands of copies? Thats the scarier option as with enough booths and power... you could insta-clone an entire army... or 100 Hitlers... but, could also save the world in being able to insta-clone mountains of food.

[midgetshrimp]

Just to throw something out there, it sounds like a similar situation to being brought back from the dead. Not in the most dramatic of senses, but being revived after you've technically died, which has happened numerous times in medical history. You died, but it's still you. That's just one way to look at it, I think. But mostly my thoughts on this matter consist of how excruciatingly painful a molecular deconstructive transportation device sounds like it would be in reality. You're being torn asunder molecule by molecule. It's going to be painful.

[Bear]

Unless during the process that had something in the electrical field of the device that killed the pain signals to the brain. I'd agree though that unless it was a fast, all at once process, being broken down atom by atom would be more painful then death by a million papercuts and lemon juice...

[Tenjen]

unless all of you is being teleported at once. or you're sedated.

like that one short story of Stephen Kings. Where people had to be put asleep because going through the teleporter when conscious...

well people would instantly go through physically but their minds would spend an eternity in the "space between worlds" when passing through the teleporter, killing them when they stepped out.

[Don Alexander]

"The Jaunt"

"Muuuuuuch longer than you think, Dad!!!!"

Awesome story. It has haunted me since I read it like umpteen years ago.

Will comment on the initial post some time later...

[Tenjen]

another thing which occurs to me is the presence of intellectual masses of energy. Living energy so to speak.

We ourselves are matter beings with an energy core.

are there energy beings with a matter core?

[Bear]

Probably... for if the universe is truely infinite, therefore there has to be infinite possibilities. Everything that can happen must happen somewhere, so therefore its is only logical to conclude that if it can be thought of, it must exist somewhere or somewhen. Even if we have to move into the parralell dimensions way of thinking.

[cheesebunny]

that could explain dark matter!!
and if they have a matter core it could be therorised that, as on earth we cant see engery but feel it at times they could exist here already, it would explain poltergeists and ghostly feelings and stuff!
it could be like they exist in the 5th and 6th dimensions or somthing

[Tenjen]

speaking of dimensions.

Lots of people state this or that is the 4th dimension. Some people seem to be mixing up their "dimensions". when refering to a situation and simulations, dimensions means the different factors or events, like movement, location, time and subjects involved. It doesnt mean Dimensions in terms of physics.

But back to physics.

We being 3 dimensional beings, will have trouble understanding a 4th dimension. even SENSING a 4th dimension would be troublesome as our biology has limited our essences to 3D, 2D and 1D experiences.

Such a case would exist for creatures living in 2D, with a 2D world.

Its possible to percieve, but takes quite a bit of open mindedness and talent in perception and cognition. Going beyond ones physical barriers is what humanity excels at when it puts its mind to it.

now what if, there are multiple 4th dimensions at play with the previous 3? All working at once and/or seperately and/or a dynamic relationship of "at once" and "seperately"?

[Scaramouche]

A dimension is just a way of measuring something. In the realsm of real, solid objects, it takes a minimum of three dimensions, or three axes, to measure things. That's all it means. You can draw a bazillion axes through a basketball and describe it along each of those dimensions if you wanyt, and those dimensions are as real as if you described it in just three dimensions/axes. But it doens't mean those extra dimensions are spooky invisible tiny freaky things that can only be understood by brainiacs. They're just extra axes of measurement or description.

Easy way to figure it out. Get an apple. Put three skewers through it to represent the traditional three axes or dimensions. Now stick another skewer through it along an angle different to the other three. There's your fourth dimension. Now stick another skewer through it at yet another angle. There's your fifth dimension. It's that easy.

Three dimenions is commonly the basis used by everyone because it's the minimum required to describe anything other than a picture.

Time is not a dimension in that respect. But time is required to keep track of where things are at any given moment, since things are moving around, so we call that a dimension as well since we use that in addition to physical dimensions to describe stuff.

When people invent whacky crap about dimensions too small to see, or invisible, or any such things, it has nothing to do with actual physical dimensions and provable physics. It's basically stuff that exists only in their artificed equations, usually to fill a gap left by other work.