The 'British' debate.

[Bear]

I'd almost forgot that was a reason I'd never vote Tory... being they started and have always supported Section 28.

[stephaielikes]

I'm from here, so not English for sure!
Section 28...
'The amendment stated that a local authority "shall not intentionally promote homosexuality or publish material with the intention of promoting homosexuality" or "promote the teaching in any maintained school of the acceptability of homosexuality as a pretended family relationship".[2]'
Source: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/Uk ... 9_en_5.htm
Via Wikipedia.

[Don Alexander]

I'm from here, so not English for sure!

A... golf club??

And if this goes on, I'll just start calling the whole bunch "the people from the other side of the Channel".

Section 28...
'The amendment stated that a local authority "shall not intentionally promote homosexuality or publish material with the intention of promoting homosexuality" or "promote the teaching in any maintained school of the acceptability of homosexuality as a pretended family relationship".[2]'
Source: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/Uk ... 9_en_5.htm
Via Wikipedia.

Aha. Seems to be in vogue right now... I mean, they even voted down gay marriage in California...

I'm not very informed, but I think we are reasonably liberal about this topic in Germany. though I also think we don't have gay marriage... either way, it's not such a hot topic here right now.

[Scaramouche]

I'm not convinced it would benefit too much, actually. Don't forget what we've seen recently in the credit crisis about the failure of the capitalist systems to regulate themselves or behave in a sensible manner.

Yeah, unrestrained greed may screw things up even worse. But it would be my hope that experience would teach the corps they need to be a little responsible. Yeah, I know. Not gonna happen.

I can give you a few good examples of this from the UK of why they shouldn't.
1. Public transport
Public transport in the UK is (as all other UK'ers here can bear witness) mostly a joke. The estate I live on is 20 minutes walk from the centre of town, 40 from the nearest decent supermarket and about 25 from the local hospital. Now my estate has quite an array of older people on it. Up until a few years ago there were no regular bus routes; wasn't deemed financially viable. Then the local council stepped in and contributed towards a bus company contract. Now there is a regular bus, and it is frequently full. But without local government intervention it would not be present.

I haven't been to the UK yet, although I desperately want to go there. As for public transport, it's not actually public in Australia. It's own by corporations; it's a business, a service.

2. National Health Service
Yes, before any of the flame wars start, the NHS is not the best service in the world. But it is free to any who need it. It is paid directly out of pay packets via a tax and I know that if I need medical attention I will receive it and not have to pay for the privilege after. Of course, private care is available, but reducing the option to private only would exclude a lot of people who do need medical attention and would not be able to afford it.

I think if you're going to have a government, a national health service should be one of thier main responsibilities. We have both in Ausrtalia, a government run service and a private sector. Our health system consistently ranks above the USA's, even though the USA spends a lot more money on theirs. So it's not too bad. Although I will be getting private health cover after I start my new job. So I do agree there, having certain back-ups for those who can't afford private is important.

3. British Rail
British Rail used to exist. And while it was derided for being sometimes late and had naff sandwiches in their buffet cars, it worked.

Now the country has been divided up into 15 or so train operators, each with their own rules. Some rules are consistent, some are not. For example, I live on the London-Brighton train route, of which two different companies provide train service - First Capital Connect (which does Brighton to London and on to Luton) and Southern (which does the area either side of the London-Brighton line, such as Worthing, Hastings, Southampton etc)

And despite running on the same lines, sometimes one operator's trains will be delayed where the other's won't, plus FCC sometimes issue "FCC only" tickets which aren't accepted on Southern trains despite travelling the same part of the route but are fractionally cheaper.

And just to top it off you have Virgin Trains managed by Richard Branson and co that has different rules again about the kinds of discount tickets they'll accept. Now, I have travelled various parts of the country but it's a nightmare trying to work out what to do with the train system.

Additionally, London has its own magical system now, the Oyster card, that lets you swipe yourself in and out on journeys with pre-paid credit (and an RFID tracking tag) that isn't available anywhere else in the country.

Just... gah. Privatising the railway was IMO one of the worst acts of the previous government.

Same thing here. There are massive problems with it. But part of the reason is that the companies use influence with the government to maintain monopolies over their areas. If there was actual competition between services in all areas, it MIGHT produce a better result. Although I'm not at all certain of that. It might just produce more crap.

In short, I'm all for nationalising certain industries and in favour of a government, just not the current incarnation of government. (Without getting into the debate, I tend to side with the 'old' Labour - up the workers! etc. - but I can't bring myself to vote for the current government next time. I'm voting for Cameron and his cronies not because they're best equipped to run the country, they're just likely to cause the least damage.)

Yeah, I'm kind of in the same boat I do think there should be some form of nation, and some form of government. Just not what we have now.

[tilde]

[...] the Conservative party of Britain are [...] the ones who introduced the charging for withdrawing your money from cash machines[...]

So, I'm way over here in Canada, and know exactly bupkis about UK/British/English politics, so feel free to call me a dimwit, but how is the gov't allowed to introduce ABM charges? Over here it's the banks who did that (and have us collectively by the balls so we can't do much about it)...

[Bear]

[...] the Conservative party of Britain are [...] the ones who introduced the charging for withdrawing your money from cash machines[...]

So, I'm way over here in Canada, and know exactly bupkis about UK/British/English politics, so feel free to call me a dimwit, but how is the gov't allowed to introduce ABM charges? Over here it's the banks who did that (and have us collectively by the balls so we can't do much about it)...

Basically it was a stealth tax that when they were in power they allowed the banks to introduce the charges so they could get a cut of the money.

On Public transport, most of it is run by private businesses here who've been given goverment and local government contracts to run the transport systems... just shows how giving some things over to big businesses just doesn't work.

And on the National Health Service.. the other day when I got bored... the average American pays out at least $5000 a year on health insurance.... I worked out if they scrapped that, and instead intoduced a health tax of only $500 a year, saving people $4500 at least... America would have an NHS with Triple the funding per head of ours. Shows you how good the NHS is for a country when even though it cost billions to run, it saves everyone thousands in the long run.

And actually, after todays Tory announcment I'm defiantely not voting for Cameron ever since his plan now includes lowering government spending on public service sectors... in otehr words, defiantely less police, fire ambulances etc in a time when we need them.

[Nathan Dorian]

I don't mind being called British.

...

*Shrug*

[tilde]

I don't mind being called British.

Me neither. Oh no, wait...I totally do.

[Scaramouche]

Even "English" includes a whole bunch of different peoples. Not just the Angles these days. England is home to bunches of different tribal groups.

[Pfhreak]

<thread-jack>

The Britons? Who are they?

</thread-jack>

[Bear]

The Britons... weren't they Boudicca and co?

[Arantor]

<thread-jack>

The Britons? Who are they?

</thread-jack>

We're all Britons, and I [Arthur] am your king.

Didn't know we had a king.

[harbino]

We haven't...

We have a Queen!

[Arantor]

We haven't...

We have a Queen!

What about in 932 AD?

[harbino]

Maybe not then... but now we have...