I have a Dream...finally, fulfilled!

[Asaryu]

Where's the jester when you need him?

*whistles* Oni!!!

[Bear]

No, we weren't. There's a huge difference between facts, and some politicians claiming the existence of proof but never offering that proof.

Like when Bush said that he had Intelligence facts that proved that Iraq had WMD's and then he offered up the.... Oh wait

[Scaramouche]

No, we weren't. There's a huge difference between facts, and some politicians claiming the existence of proof but never offering that proof.

Like when Bush said that he had Intelligence facts that proved that Iraq had WMD's and then he offered up the.... Oh wait

Yeah, that's what I mean. Facts and claims of facts are two very different things. That's why people need to be skeptical when they trot out the very same lies about Iran.

[Bear]

Yes but the FACT is that Iran does indeed have a nuclear program that is subject to UN inspections, and if they so wished to, said nuclear material that they do have could be converted into nuclear armaments which could be sent against the West. It may be speculation as to what they could do with it, but it is fact that they do have the capability. Thats undisputable. The only thing that is is if and when they could do so.

What Obama has done it point out the possibility of a nation that is known to have supported terrorists, possibly developing even worse weaponry and he just wants to make sure that its only used for Nuclear power like they are claiming that they want to, not for uranium enrichment for weaponry etc. He's not said or jumped to the Bush conclusion of 'They've got WMD's, lets bomb the frell outta them'. He's pointed out that they're potentially capable and he wishes to prevent it should it ever lead to a Nuclear Winter senario.

[Scaramouche]

Yes but the FACT is that Iran does indeed have a nuclear program that is subject to UN inspections, and if they so wished to, said nuclear material that they do have could be converted into nuclear armaments which could be sent against the West. It may be speculation as to what they could do with it, but it is fact that they do have the capability. Thats undisputable. The only thing that is is if and when they could do so.

What Obama has done it point out the possibility of a nation that is known to have supported terrorists, possibly developing even worse weaponry and he just wants to make sure that its only used for Nuclear power like they are claiming that they want to, not for uranium enrichment for weaponry etc. He's not said or jumped to the Bush conclusion of 'They've got WMD's, lets bomb the frell outta them'. He's pointed out that they're potentially capable and he wishes to prevent it should it ever lead to a Nuclear Winter senario.

Any member state in the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty has the option of withdrawing from it. They're only subject to inspections if they want to be.

As for terrorism:
USA Terrorism.
USA admits to terrorism against Iran.

And as for Iran and terrorist groups, the claim is that Iran supports Hezbollah. Now Hezbollah isn't labelled a terrorist group by the UN. Nor by the EU. Indeed, only Australia, Canada, Israel, Netherlands, UK, and USA call Hezbollah terrorists. That's a minute fraction of the world.

[Bear]

And as for Iran and terrorist groups, the claim is that Iran supports Hezbollah. Now Hezbollah isn't labelled a terrorist group by the UN. Nor by the EU. Indeed, only Australia, Canada, Israel, Netherlands, UK, and USA call Hezbollah terrorists. That's a minute fraction of the world.

Actually, thats over half a billion people which is 10% or more of the worlds population. Hardly minute.

[Scaramouche]

And as for Iran and terrorist groups, the claim is that Iran supports Hezbollah. Now Hezbollah isn't labelled a terrorist group by the UN. Nor by the EU. Indeed, only Australia, Canada, Israel, Netherlands, UK, and USA call Hezbollah terrorists. That's a minute fraction of the world.

Actually, thats over half a billion people which is 10% or more of the worlds population. Hardly minute.

Minute in terms of the number of governments and NGOs.

Even if you go by population,the vast majority have not labeled Hezbollah terrorists.

[Pneumonica]

But maybe just a message to Pneu and Scaramouche. Turn down the volume on the ad homs, 'kay?

Okay, you're the second person who's done this, and the first time I endorsed a policy of "let it slide, don't turn it into a flame war", and I've felt like crap for having done that. This time I won't.

Point to an ad hominem attack I've made, or apologize. And yes, I've made an ultimatum - no, I won't turn back from it. I've been affronted, but if you can point out to me a place where I've made an attack, even where I wasn't aware of it (that is to say, if I stated something whose meaning to someone who didn't see it from my angle would be an ad hominem attack), then I will apologize for it or at least identify it as such and retract my indignation. Otherwise, I've been slighted.

[Scaramouche]

by Pneumonica on Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:23 pm:

But quit with the goddamned relatives, it's freaking sickening, it's sad, it's pathetic, and it proves your own shortcomings.

That's a personal attack.

[Bear]

Okay, Scaramouche. This is an unofficial warning. Stop trying to cause arguement for arguements sake. If I have to warn your again, further action will be taken.


Now, this is a moderator order:

Turn this thread back to pleasentries or it will be locked and persons will be on the receiving end of further action.

[NobodySpecial]

Hi, this is pretty easy.

Any country that has the ability to split the atom can make a bomb if they want to.

Building said bomb is harder than you think for a variety of reasons, number one being the amount of enrichment you have to do on a great mass of Uranium to get the materials to make one (Power plant Uranium is enriched between 3-4%. Weapons enrichment involves 85% or better). Of course, that says nothing about engineering difficulties if you're trying for anything more complex than a gun style ignitor.

Then, even if you GET the enriched Uranium, you still have to gain a yield large enough from a small mass to stick it on a warhead. Said warhead would have to be able to be attached to a missile that has a range long enough to hit the US.

Iran doesn't have the requisite number of centrifuges, it doesn't have the ability to maximize yield, and it doesn't have ICBM's. So, no, no threat to the US.

Lastly, they ARE a signatory to the NNPT and HAVE been inspected. The output of their centrifuges is currently at around 3.5% - suitable for power plants, NG for weapons. By contrast in that region, there IS a nuclear power who is NOT a signatory and has refused all inspections - and frankly, THEY worry me more than Iran.

[Aren]

If McCain had gotten elected, I would have been more concerned about the USA than any other country in the world. After all, once McCain kicked it, you'd have a crazy Fundamentalist Christian idiot with the launch codes. That's always a great idea.

[Asaryu]

If McCain had gotten elected, I would have been more concerned about the USA than any other country in the world. After all, once McCain kicked it, you'd have a crazy Fundamentalist Christian idiot with the launch codes. That's always a great idea.

I doubt her Christian beliefs would make her a bad candidate for the job...but her foolishness and blatant ineptitude would.

[Aren]

If McCain had gotten elected, I would have been more concerned about the USA than any other country in the world. After all, once McCain kicked it, you'd have a crazy Fundamentalist Christian idiot with the launch codes. That's always a great idea.

I doubt her Christian beliefs would make her a bad candidate for the job...but her foolishness and blatant ineptitude would.

Fundamentalists of any stripe, religious or not, are bad candidates for political office. Period.

[Asaryu]

I just tend to find that Christians in general get a bad wrap. I'm a fan of moderation in everything, but there's an awful lot of hating on Christians that I've noticed around the place, and I'm not comfortable with it. I don't condone hating on anyone, especially not a group who, by and large, are very good people.