D&D anyone? (:

[thaldin]

I'm not exactly happy with 4E... but it seems easier for my g/f and son to pick up on, Pneu.

I dislike that it requires mini's...

I dislike the computer game like abilities....

but I'm willing to try...

[Pneumonica]

The minis thing doesn't even register. You can always work around minis. The easy-to-pick-up part is something of a pus. What bothers me is the fact that they took D&D and removed everything D&D-ish about it and then repackaged it under the D&D label. They then took Forgotten Realms, removed everything Realms-y about it, and then repackaged it under the Forgotten Realms label. I don't actually mind the game on principle, although the "World of D&D-craft" thing makes me not want to play it. To quote a friend of mine from another forum, it's like they demolished a real castle and built a theme park castle on its foundation.

[Bear]

Not having played D&D before, and having come at it from the various computer games ,(Balders Gate, Icewind Dale, Neverwinter Nights), I have to say its the similarities to what I know thats appealed to me about it.

[Pneumonica]

Not having played D&D before, and having come at it from the various computer games ,(Balders Gate, Icewind Dale, Neverwinter Nights), I have to say its the similarities to what I know thats appealed to me about it.

Sure, and like I say I have no problem with it as a game per se (no moral issue, at least - it still isn't that interesting to me), but what bothers me is that they packaged it as D&D when it really isn't D&D. They have a few of the trappings and none of the real goodness.

Also, this is obviously a very opinionated view, and I don't expect everybody to share it.

Well, I do, but it's not my fault if some people need to be wrong to show how right I am. ;)

[Scaramouche]

Well, I'm moving out tomorrow, and into my new apartment on the 12th of December. It's very likely there will be gamers at work, so I may have to start a regular game night at the new apartment.

[Bear]

I need more nerdy friends IRL... problem is nearly all my gamer friends are online so its hard for me to do alot of these tabletop games properly.

And nothing wrong with being opinionated Pneu, I bet theres just as many people who hate White Wolf games which I love, and i know theres plenty who hate the New World of Darkness, as I hate it myself. Though the new take on Changling I rather like... but thats about it for the new line of stuff.

[Don Alexander]

And nothing wrong with being opinionated Pneu, I bet theres just as many people who hate White Wolf games which I love, and i know theres plenty who hate the New World of Darkness, as I hate it myself. Though the new take on Changling I rather like... but thats about it for the new line of stuff.

I love the old world of Darkness except for Changeling which just never interested me. I haven't followed it up for a decade, so I have no idea what is really going on now. I do know that Gehenna happened in the official canon.

[Pneumonica]

And nothing wrong with being opinionated Pneu, I bet theres just as many people who hate White Wolf games which I love, and i know theres plenty who hate the New World of Darkness, as I hate it myself. Though the new take on Changling I rather like... but thats about it for the new line of stuff.

In that vein, I've been told that Changeling is the best thing (or, in many cases, the only good thing) about nWoD, and in some cases even that it's better than Changeling oWoD. I burned out on WoD years ago - I can only play Mage now, and I can't tolerate nWoD's Mage (transdimensional grafitti artists).

[Bear]

Changeling is the best of NWoD from what I've read of it (New Vampire and Werewolf). If you gave me the new WoD changling concept, in the OWoD I'd be extremely happy.

[Pneumonica]

I need to go rooting around - somewhere there's a project of converting the oWoD setting (which, from what I'm told, is superior) to the nWoD system (which, from what I'm told, is superior). I think they're keeping nWoD Changeling, and they're synergizing the two powers (evidentally, nWoD Celerity works better, but oWoD Fortitude is superior... etc.). I'll see if I can't find it. I'm only interested insofar as Mage is concerned - it's always been my favorite, and is the only oen I can play now without my brain rubbing on glass. I don't dislike it, it's just I played it continuously from the first edition tabletop version. After something near or over a decade of playing the same system with the same setting, I got a little burned out.

[Bear]

Now that I'd like to see since I disliked the nWoD setting. They really did a number on the poor werebreeds in the new setting, bt as you said. Changling is defiantely far superior to the oWoD. The mechanics of the nWoD are better from what I've picked up of them so if they can pull that off, it'll be the first case of a fanmade setting outselling the official one.

[Don Alexander]

Now, not a new story of mine, but I've got to link this...



When ShadowSystems writes " 50' ", that means fifty feet, yeah? Darn non-metric countries...

Me? I'm a developer, evolutionist, whatever. My main character has been played for 14 years and has reached something like minor god-hood by now. Getting killed would piss me off like, forever.

[Retiarius]

Yeah, that sort of reminds me of one D&D 3.0 critter I made insanely vicious just by advancing it some hit dice and adding a couple of feats. The 3.5 version takes a bit more tweaking:

Recipe—take one marilith, straight from the Monster Manual 3.5:

Marilith: CR 17; huge outsider; HD 16d8+144; hp 216; Init +4; Spd 40 ft; AC 29, touch 13, flat-footed 25; BAB +16; Grapple +33; Atk: +25 melee (2d6+9/19-20 Huge longsword) or +24 melee (1d8+9 slam) or +24 melee (4d6+9 tail slap), Full Atk +25/+20/+15/+10 melee (2d6+9/19-20 primary Huge longsword) and five +25 melee (2d6+4/19-20 Huge longswords, five) and +24 melee (4d6+4 tail slap); or six +24 melee (1d8+9 slams, six) and +24 melee (4d6+4 tail slap); SA constrict (4d6+13, DC 27 Fort save or lose consciousness while constricted plus 2d4 rounds after), improved grab, spell-like abilities, summon tanar’ri; SQ darkvision 60 ft., immune to electricity and poison, restistance to acid 10, cold 10 and fire 10, telepathy 100 ft., SR 25, DR 10/good and cord iron; AL CE; SV Fort +19, Ref +14, Will +14; Str 29, Dex 19, Con 29, Int 18, Wis 18, Cha 24.
Skills and Feats: Bluff +26, Concentration +28, Diplomacy +30, Disguise +7 (+9 acting), Hide +19, Intimidate +28, Listen +31, Move Silently +23, Search +23, Sense Motive +23, Spellcraft +23 (+25 scrolls), Spot +31, Survival +4 (+6 following tracks), Use Magic Device +26 (+28 scrolls); Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Multiattack, Multi-Weapon Fighting, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (longsword).
Spell-Like Abilities: Continuous—true seeing; At will—align weapon, blade barrier (DC 23), magic weapon, project image (DC 23), polymorph, see invisibility (almost useless because of their true seeing), telekinesis (DC 23), greater teleport (self plus 50 pounds of objects only—probably means that it can’t even teleport with all its Huge longswords), unholy aura (DC 23). Caster level 16th. Save DCs are Charisma-based.
Summon Tanar’ri (Sp): Once daily a marilith can try to summon 4d10 dretches, 1d4 hezrou or one nalfeshee with a 50% success chance, or another marilith with a 20% success chance. This ability is the equivalent of a 5th-level spell.
Possessions: Six Huge longswords.

Now add eight hit dice, giving it two stat points, two regular feats and an epic feat (allowed since the creature has at least 21 hit dice) and a magic item:

Murderlith: CR 22; gargantuan outsider; HD 24d8+264; hp 372; Init +4; Spd 40 ft; AC 31, touch 11, flat-footed 31; BAB +24; Grapple +50; Atk: +35 melee (3d6+14/19-20 Gargantuan longsword) or +34 melee (2d6+14 slam) or +34 melee (6d6+14 tail slap), Full Atk +35/+30/+25/+20 melee (3d6+14/19-20 primary Gargantuan longsword) and five +35/+30/+25/+20 melee (3d6+7/19-20 Gargantuan longswords, five) and +34 melee (6d6+7 tail slap); or six +34 melee (2d6+14 slams, six) and +34 melee (6d6+7 tail slap); SA constrict (6d6+21, DC 36 Fort save or lose consciousness while constricted plus 2d4 rounds after), improved grab, spell-like abilities, summon tanar’ri; SQ darkvision 60 ft., immune to electricity and poison, restistance to acid 10, cold 10 and fire 10, telepathy 100 ft., SR 25, DR 10/good and cord iron; AL CE; SV Fort +25, Ref +18, Will +18; Str 38, Dex 20 (26 with gloves of dexterity), Con 33, Int 18, Wis 18, Cha 24.
Skills and Feats: Bluff +34, Concentration +38, Diplomacy +38, Disguise +7 (+9 acting), Hide +23, Intimidate +36, Listen +29, Move Silently +31, Search +31, Sense Motive +31, Spellcraft +31 (+33 scrolls), Spot +39, Survival +4 (+6 following tracks), Use Magic Device +26 (+28 scrolls); Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Greater Multiweapon Fighting, Improved Multiweapon Fighting, Multiattack, Multiweapon Fighting, Perfect Multiweapon Fighting (epic), Power Attack, Weapon Focus (longsword).
Spell-Like Abilities: Continuous—true seeing; At will—align weapon, blade barrier (DC 23), magic weapon, project image (DC 23), polymorph, see invisibility (almost useless because of their true seeing), telekinesis (DC 23), greater teleport (self plus 50 pounds of objects only—probably means that it can’t even teleport with all its Huge longswords), unholy aura (DC 23). Caster level 16th. Save DCs are Charisma-based.
Summon Tanar’ri (Sp): Once daily a marilith can try to summon 4d10 dretches, 1d4 hezrou or one nalfeshee with a 50% success chance, or another marilith with a 20% success chance. This ability is the equivalent of a 5th-level spell.
Possessions: Six Gargantuan longswords, gloves of dexterity +6 (without these, it can’t use the Perfect Multiweapon Fighting feat).

The spell resistance on the murderlith might be higher but I’m too lazy to check. I think it’s a fixed amount. In any case, this advanced marilith gets 25 attacks on a full attack action (with weapons only, not slams), and if they all hit, the average damage (assuming no critical hits) is 464 points. Spring attack, anyone?

Note that if it only gets a single attack, it would use the tail slap and constrict, then whale on the poor sap with the other 30 attacks if not otherwise engaged on the next round. Naturally, it would use blade barrier to split up groups of attackers and destroy them piecemeal.

The 3.0 version was weaker but still tore the party I used it on a new one. The bard in the party took over 50 points from a telekinetically hurled rock and failed the massive damage Fortitude save; the party cleric (who had a bad habit of using most of his spells to buff himself into a kickass fighter) took like 300 points in one full attack action and was reduced to chutney.

And that reminds me of an old 1E cleric that was chewed up in combat so much that he was nicknamed “Father Hamburger”. When I heard of him, I said, “Did he have a initiate cleric serving him? And was he named ‘Hamburger Helper’?”

Yes, things were hurled at me for saying that.

[Pneumonica]

I'd geek out and correct a few errors I noted, but I'm trying to scour D&D from my head. Anima: Beyond Fantasy is really doing it for me now, so I'm pretty much leaving D&D behind.

[Asaryu]

The only thing I know about Anima is that it is very pretty, and the book is very expensive. Tell me more so I can impress my gaming shop owner with my knowledge.