21-01-10 Want some breakfast?

[philippos42]

Wow, I completely disagree with McFeely. One joke sets up the next joke, that's how this business works.

[ekuth]

enough already. You and the others doing this shit every damn time over and over and over with each damn update.

If I may shed some polite but succinct illumination?

Perhaps the "others" merely feel a need to espouse a more realistic and critical viewpoint than the usual fanboi/girl affectations that are the predominant offerings here on the forum.

Perhaps they actually care about the characters and the work and thus offer criticism (constructive or not) in the hopes of shaping the story into something more than a continuous running gag-line of amoralistic hedonism and gratituous sex without any real consequence.

Perhaps it is the deep seated desire to see the underdog/good guy rise above his issues without resorting to the methods employed by those around him. The need to see him succeed in spite of and not because of those people.

The appearance of critics is actually a healthy thing for a writer/artist. They change and grow by being challenged. One does not excel by a continous diet of candy assed, sappy, devoted fan-boi gratification.

What I have seen developing lately is a clear schism between the fan-bois and the "others". As though by being critical and expressing our opinions of the work we are somehow intruding into an exclusive party. Very few differing viewpoints have been stated, and when they have, they have roundly been shouted down by the clamoring masses or ignored.

For my own part, I find that the comic has lost the "edge" that drew me here in the first place and has devolved into servicing the fanbase rather than the story, characters or plot line. The artwork, on the whole, is superb for the medium and has shown growth over time. However, art alone is not enough to successfully carry a series.

Now, having provided perhaps some illumination and echoed the thoughts of others, this good sirrah shall go gently into that good night with a bow and leave the battlefield to heartier souls.

In the words of the immortal Groucho Marx:

"I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member."

[NCallahan]

With all the surprise anonymous sex lately, you know, why haven't we seen any birth control or prophylactics or hygienic devices in this comic yet?

Yes, yes, I know, that's just The Way Porn Works and since we don't get regular face full's of wingwang and vajayjay, there's technically no reason to think they aren't packing over armor. We don't need the Serious Business storyline where Zee admits to Sonya she's on valtrex and they should've used a dental dam. But seriously? For a sex gag comic, it's neglecting a deep vein of potential material. Maybe I'm just saying this because I've been all about the indie erotic lately and I've run across some pretty hot stuff that incorporates the manyfold medicinal machinations into the sex scene proper. I like the idea that our fantasies don't have to put the blinders on sex safety to be satisfying and that a condom can be a pretty kinky object on its own. But I just think it's odd, you know -- this is the 21st century. Shouldn't we find it odder these days when we don't see these things?

[Fen]

Selfish Zii again.
"Hey, I know your girlfriend isn't awake, but I'm going to diddle you anyway because my needs are most important."

Dude, she already slept with him in front of his girlfriend(while she participated). Why would it be wrong? Also, given the fact that Zii has had quite a few threesomes in her lifetime I'd assume this was normal behaviour. (wouldn't know, never had a threesome). Sonya is the one acting up here.

[TakerFoxx]

In fairness, we don't actually see their Giant Sized Man-Thing, so there's nothing that says they're not protected. Then again I'm too lazy to double-check every sex scene, so you might have a point.

And ekuth, I can see where you're coming from. But while there has been polite disagreement and constructive criticism, comments like "Boring!" and "Can we get back to the goddamn story?" are pretty much guaranteed to piss people off, especially since they keep popping up every update when the majority of us just want to laugh at the shenanigans. But I do agree that there's been rudeness on both sides of the line, so maybe we could all learn to calm down and discuss our opinions instead of shouting at each other.

As for character growth, I would point out that it is happening. Didi's coming to terms with her sexual preferences, Gary's starting to take the initiative with Yuki, while the reveal of Yuki's backstory gives as a deeper understanding of what drives her to be so nuts. And here Zii may begin to learn that her actions have consequences. Granted it's taking it's time doing so, but again our time doesn't correlate to their time. Such problems are not solved overnight.

So in closing, if you're wondering why Gary won't man up or Zii will stop being so selfish and other realistic facts, just keep telling yourself it's just a silly webcomic, and I really should just relax.

[lese]

I feel like the usual criticism of the hedonistic sex plot is actually very, very wrong for this panel (and it may be a sign that the complaints are being noted.) I feel that this panel is leading up to some minor soul-searching on Zii's part. I mean... not a lot to infer from, but I think she was put-out by being kicked out so easily. Instead of being a catalyst for kinky sex and good times, she may have damaged a long-standing relationship. Mostly she seems to have had threesomes and moresomes with strangers or groups of friends, but hurting a couple might not sit so easily with her. I mean, could easily be wrong.

But that could be an easy in to the character development that everyone seems to want so badly. Sure, it isn't her making good on her promise to help Gary (which she had plenty of time to pay off and shouldn't be expected to make her only priority in the future ever) but maybe she'll attempt a dramatic 180 to Saint Zii, Patron of Virgins (and fail horribly all the while, while attempting to help.)

[PulpNoir]

I would hope that some of the negativity of the posts lately is fueled by enjoyment of other storylines. I am one of the lucky ones that likes all the characters, but perhaps I'm also lucky in that I don't expect everyone in the world to be perfect. Zii is funny because she is a great big ball of hedonism, as is Dillon. Didi is endearingly sweet and the sort of girl that dreams are made of for anyone with a knight in shining armor complex. (Nothing to see here, move along) Gary is the least appealing character for me even though I was in his boat at one point. Still like him though and I too want to see the story with him continue more than seeing Zii getting tossed out by Sonya. However, to me, this is a perfect little scene. It takes longer in a comic strip than it would in a movie, but it is a perfect setup shot IMO. Even if it doesn't lead directly to some 'plot', it is still significant in the fact it's the first time we've seen Zii have sex with a woman. And today, with a man. Not just flashbacks, which at one point some people on the board were calling dreams.

Anyhow...this discussion has occurred the P&A threads as well and I believe, though I do have a bad memory, that it was T who talked about pacing. As much as the internet reader might want every strip to be full speed ahead, wall of text plot plot plot, when you get the paper product you need slower pacing.


Oh...and Giz...I adore you art. Have for years now.

[Don Alexander]

ekuth is my hero now!!

Also because of that pic of a squirrel (?) neck-raeping Spiderman!!

[dorsh]

Sonya suddenly became my least favorite character of all time, ever. She's devolved from friendly, concerned waitress into being handsy for no reason, ignorant, very easy to manipulate, terrible at communicating, and on top of it all, a jealous hypocrite to her boyfriend.
And such hedonism as Zii's bores and irritates me--and no, she is not cute to me, though I give her props when she's not trying to be sexual--but the comic itself is probably a good example of Zii's sex life, and I don't think off-plot at all.

[yudantaiteki]

I feel like the usual criticism of the hedonistic sex plot is actually very, very wrong for this panel (and it may be a sign that the complaints are being noted.) I feel that this panel is leading up to some minor soul-searching on Zii's part.

I'm not so sure. People keep saying that Zii is now going to realize her actions have consequences, but notice they didn't have any real consequences to her. She got her threesome, and extra sex, with people she just met, so I don't know if she's really going to feel like it's a bad consequence that she got thrown out in the morning.

[Hobbamock]

Selfish Zii again.
"Hey, I know your girlfriend isn't awake, but I'm going to diddle you anyway because my needs are most important."

Dude, she already slept with him in front of his girlfriend(while she participated). Why would it be wrong? Also, given the fact that Zii has had quite a few threesomes in her lifetime I'd assume this was normal behaviour. (wouldn't know, never had a threesome). Sonya is the one acting up here.

Being an experienced menage a 3 participant, Zii should understand the rules. Especially when she is the third wheel in an existing relationship. And that rule is that you don't mess with one partner without first consenting with the other. It breaks the trust of their relationship (Sonya & Boyfriend). Without Sonya participating, now it is not a menage a 3 but rather it is cheating. I don't expect the boyfriend to know this as this is a new experience, but Zii should know better.

[Platypus]

However, art alone is not enough to successfully carry a series.

Funny... the art is, like, 90% of the reason I still look at this comic at all....

[Phantasos]

*Cheat on your boyfriend because of cartoonish idiocy*

*Get angry at boyfriend for continuing to screw Zii while she falls asleep*

Hah, them moral high grounds....never gets old.

Both ladies lost any justification for the act, albeit for different reasons.

Zii should realize that not everyone is not as open-minded as her when it comes to sex, especially since she took advantage of Sonia's monumental stupidity.

And Sonia...well, i think i already made my point about her, she's just an idiot.

[RoninAngel]

Selfish Zii again.
"Hey, I know your girlfriend isn't awake, but I'm going to diddle you anyway because my needs are most important."

Dude, she already slept with him in front of his girlfriend(while she participated). Why would it be wrong? Also, given the fact that Zii has had quite a few threesomes in her lifetime I'd assume this was normal behaviour. (wouldn't know, never had a threesome). Sonya is the one acting up here.

Being an experienced menage a 3 participant, Zii should understand the rules. Especially when she is the third wheel in an existing relationship. And that rule is that you don't mess with one partner without first consenting with the other. It breaks the trust of their relationship (Sonya & Boyfriend). Without Sonya participating, now it is not a menage a 3 but rather it is cheating. I don't expect the boyfriend to know this as this is a new experience, but Zii should know better.

I think you are making some monumental assumptions here. There was no "rules" discussed. It was all totally impromptu. Zii didn't think she was breaking any "rules" because nothing was talked about. There are no "UNIVERSAL LAWS GOVERNING THREESOMES!!!" as you might imply.

As far as knowing better, that's the whole point of this strip. She doesn't know any better but I think this might be a wakeup call.

[albert.aribaud]

There are no "UNIVERSAL LAWS GOVERNING THREESOMES!!!" as you might imply.

Not even "three strokes and you're out" ?