SDB 27-11-18 What I was really asking

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SDB 27-11-18 What I was really asking

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OllieOrOlly
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Re: SDB 27-11-18 What I was really asking

Post by OllieOrOlly »

So, Andy was being intentionally obtuse, rather than being actually dumb; he had one hell of a poker face.
Poor Ruby. I wonder how much of her *urgency* for intimacy is her own drive, and how much of it is peer pressure she feels from the fact everyone else she knows has already gone all the way. Nevertheless, apt display in her expressions as she goes through the motions.

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Re: SDB 27-11-18 What I was really asking

Post by VoxPopuli »

So rather than being immensely dumb, he is simply a passive-aggressive coward who can't be straight with her and would rather have her put forth all the initiative. Yeh gawds, just look for someone else, dear Ruby.

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Spidrift
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Re: SDB 27-11-18 What I was really asking

Post by Spidrift »

OllieOrOlly wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:28 am
Poor Ruby. I wonder how much of her *urgency* for intimacy is her own drive, and how much of it is peer pressure she feels from the fact everyone else she knows has already gone all the way.
Not everyone; Julian, remember? But I think her interest is genuine; the joke with Ruby is that she's a perfectly normal, healthy, Kinsey-zero young woman with a normal libido, whose problem is that the Ma3 universe makes her look like an ice queen. Though I get the feeling from the last couple of strips that she also wants to feel that she's attractive, and having someone actually want her body will reassure her on that.
VoxPopuli wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:36 am
So rather than being immensely dumb, he is simply a passive-aggressive coward who can't be straight with her and would rather have her put forth all the initiative. Yeh gawds, just look for someone else, dear Ruby.
Yeah, he's not 100% dumb. He's just one of those people who uses a facade of obliviousness to protect himself from difficult stuff and offload hard decisions onto other people. Quite realistic actually, I'm afraid -- though Ruby can choose to forgive him, on the grounds that she can understand nervousness. But really, the poor girl has had enough trouble with growing up late herself; she shouldn't have to help this doofus through the same process when he's clearly got a bundle of masculine insecurities to go with the same virginal nervousness as herself.

Anyhow, we do finally have some progress. I'll still assume that there's a lot of cheering being muffled on the other side of the keyhole. And we (and the people beyond the keyhole) can take bets on who does go first. If Ruby is still classic-Ruby, she'll ask Andy to start, to save her feeling of vulnerability -- but I have a feeling that we'll get a sign of her character development with her volunteering.

And will we get any mention of the contraception question?
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Chantaru
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Re: SDB 27-11-18 What I was really asking

Post by Chantaru »

VoxPopuli wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:36 am
So rather than being immensely dumb, he is simply a passive-aggressive coward who can't be straight with her and would rather have her put forth all the initiative. Yeh gawds, just look for someone else, dear Ruby.
But he DOES NOT want her to put forth all the initiative. He wants her to take a chill pill. And a lot of shy people would react the way he does, by deflecting and ignoring and hoping she backs down.
Also, I know this is Ma3 but irl most people don't go from 0 to 100 in 10 minutes when losing their virginity. There are advantages to kissing, and increasingly steamier making out. Of course, that would require a different punchline.
In fact, did we ever see ppl make out in the whole comic?

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Re: SDB 27-11-18 What I was really asking

Post by worldshaking00 »

So Andy is not asexual. He is nervous about it and he deflects, feigning true stupidity. He's one hell of an actor (to not blush realizing he's in a compromising position) and has to have a low libido (at not reacting more sexually to Ruby's LBD advance), which I suppose is plausible, considering the physical closeness Dillon spent with Andy (and the implied measurements taken by his coworker Gina). He certainly seems to have a more conventional WASPy upbringing too, unless he's also using 'seeing the parents' as a literal procedural excuse to not progress forward (which also has the added benefit of reigning in Ruby's pushing him into sexual congress.) In fact, in panel 2 Andy appears to actually have his first(?) blushing moment. Was it a conscious choice on the part of the creative team to make Andy darker skinned in order to hide the blushing reaction?

So two questions for Thursday.

The stage seems to be set for the yaoi meeting room as to where they are about to disrobe and explore one another. Andy seems happy to start there. Will Ruby regain her composure, remember the advice given to her and go to a place of comfort/safety for her first time? And not just for Ruby's benefit, but for Andy's as well. Men have a more difficult time performing when under pressure. Being in a more relaxed environment after enjoying some petting and foreplay would do them both a world of good. As we've established, the comic shop back room might not be the height of comfort but it is at least somewhat safe... if understocked of necessary contraception or sexi-ware. Having everyone at the keyhole congratulating Ruby on her breakthrough has the required comedic Ma3 punchline, but will they (the writers) close the story out by a different way? I'd recommend retreating to the apartment. Dillon should have some condoms stashed, a bed is available, and doubtless the mood could be enhanced better there. Spontaneous sex has its place, no arguments there. But for these two nervous people I feel that their story would be better told under a more... conventional atmosphere after all the hijinks.

Has it been established that Andy is a virgin? He is educated enough to know the parts of a man & woman, at least from the technical aspect from having a base medical training enough to competently perform CPR as a lifeguard. He has friends and is obviously desirable by men and women alike. His feigning obtuseness means he has to know how to recognize an advance in order to calm himself down enough to not have his body give away his actual body language/involuntary reactions (e.g. not getting erect at pretty boys & girls when they 'take advantage' of him, blushing). He obviously is nervous about how well his sexual performance would be received by his partner (will he last long enough, will he please his partner, etc.). It could be taken as he was nervous about that when he thought Ruby was an ex-porn star; but in the same light it can also belie lack of experience (complete or otherwise). They've made him out to not have a romantic partner, like, ever (cousin as a prom date?) and his knee-jerk 'taking Ruby to see his parents' ruse hints at a very strict/conventional upbringing. If Andy can channel his body control into being relaxed in a sexual environment, Ruby will be able to count herself very lucky indeed at having a stallion to keep her satisfied.... saying she finds pleasure in sex and the earnest desire to continue exploring her sexual side.
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Re: SDB 27-11-18 What I was really asking

Post by rpr »

Chantaru wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:46 am
Also, I know this is Ma3 but irl most people don't go from 0 to 100 in 10 minutes when losing their virginity. There are advantages to kissing, and increasingly steamier making out.
Indeed, this is something that feels unnatural in this setup. I mean, maybe I am old-school, but I would not be able to have sex on demand. Usually it starts with some cuddling, steam accumulates and in the end... Saying "OK, now we are going to have sex. Who starts?" feels so cold to me...

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Re: SDB 27-11-18 What I was really asking

Post by brasca »

VoxPopuli wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:36 am
So rather than being immensely dumb, he is simply a passive-aggressive coward who can't be straight with her and would rather have her put forth all the initiative. Yeh gawds, just look for someone else, dear Ruby.
Yes he’s a terrible person for not being more aggressive and genuinely nervous about having sex presumably for the first time. 8-|

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Re: SDB 27-11-18 What I was really asking

Post by VoxPopuli »

Chantaru wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:46 am
VoxPopuli wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:36 am
So rather than being immensely dumb, he is simply a passive-aggressive coward who can't be straight with her and would rather have her put forth all the initiative. Yeh gawds, just look for someone else, dear Ruby.
But he DOES NOT want her to put forth all the initiative. He wants her to take a chill pill. And a lot of shy people would react the way he does, by deflecting and ignoring and hoping she backs down.
Also, I know this is Ma3 but irl most people don't go from 0 to 100 in 10 minutes when losing their virginity. There are advantages to kissing, and increasingly steamier making out. Of course, that would require a different punchline.
In fact, did we ever see ppl make out in the whole comic?
brasca wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:07 pm
VoxPopuli wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:36 am
So rather than being immensely dumb, he is simply a passive-aggressive coward who can't be straight with her and would rather have her put forth all the initiative. Yeh gawds, just look for someone else, dear Ruby.
Yes he’s a terrible person for not being more aggressive and genuinely nervous about having sex presumably for the first time. 8-|
Apparently im not being clear enough here. There's nothing wrong with him being shy about sex, there is nothing wrong with him being shy, period. The problem is that when it comes to talking about any and all underlying problems they have in their developing relationship, she has to constantly push him to talk about it. If he wants more space, that is completely cool, but he has to be the one to tell her, it shouldn't be dragged out of him.

I understand what it's like being shy, but that doesn't make it okay for you to consistently deflect issues and pretend not to know what the other person is talking about, in an attempt to guard your feelings.

He doesn't voice his opinion until she presses him, again and again and politely calls him out on his shit. If he has a problem he should voice it. Again, I get that he is shy, but that shyness can cause problems for others if you don't make your thoughs and feelings clear. Him being shy might make his behavious understandable, but it doesn not excuse his choices or make him exempt of responsiblity.

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Re: SDB 27-11-18 What I was really asking

Post by LegendaryKroc »

What the Vox said. Being nervous about having sex is one thing. Pretending to be a big dumb lug who doesn't understand what the hell sex is so you don't have to just admit that you're nervous about having sex no matter how direct your significant other tries to get you on board is something else entirely.

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Re: SDB 27-11-18 What I was really asking

Post by Antinerd »

If this point of this arc is to convince the rest of us our first time was really not all that bad then I think 9.5/10.

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Spidrift
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Re: SDB 27-11-18 What I was really asking

Post by Spidrift »

Chantaru wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:46 am
Also, I know this is Ma3 but irl most people don't go from 0 to 100 in 10 minutes when losing their virginity. There are advantages to kissing, and increasingly steamier making out. Of course, that would require a different punchline.
In fact, did we ever see ppl make out in the whole comic?
Umm, Jerzy and Angel while drunk on the sofa? Yeah, that led promptly to sex. We have had a few uncertain kisses that didn't go further between Andy and Ruby...

Convention of the setting, I fear. They're comedies about sex, not not-quite-sex.
worldshaking00 wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:57 pm
So Andy is not asexual. He is nervous about it and he deflects, feigning true stupidity. He's one hell of an actor (to not blush realizing he's in a compromising position) and has to have a low libido (at not reacting more sexually to Ruby's LBD advance), which I suppose is plausible, considering the physical closeness Dillon spent with Andy (and the implied measurements taken by his coworker Gina).
I don't read this as quite as simple as Andy being a great actor who knows exactly what he's doing. The fact is, it's kind of easy to feign stupidity and social incompetence, especially if you don't have great awareness; you just have to pay as little attention as possible to your surroundings, and repress any urge to act on what you do notice. That might sound pointless, but it isn't; it saves a lot of effort, and forces the people around you to adjust and make an effort to compensate -- and if you're good at a few things (like, say, lifeguard work), they may decide to put up with you. But after a while, it becomes an ingrained habit -- and how does anyone else distinguish between what you're doing and "real" stupidity or incompetence?

It's actually a terribly common nerd strategy, I fear; nerds are smart in other ways but a bit crap at reading social cues, so they don't try at all with the latter, and withdraw into limited social groups. You could argue that Ruby has actually been guilty of much the same thing since her social life imploded in her teens, except that she feigns aggression instead of polite cluelessness. But the comic has been about learning her way out of that hole in the ground; she's bright and perfectly capable of reading social cues, and now she's putting the effort in, it's paying off. And she may well be about to show Andy that a little effort can pay off for him too.
worldshaking00 wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:57 pm
He certainly seems to have a more conventional WASPy upbringing too, unless he's also using 'seeing the parents' as a literal procedural excuse to not progress forward (which also has the added benefit of reigning in Ruby's pushing him into sexual congress.)
What's so White Anglo-Saxon Protestant about Andy's behaviour? He's actually behaving like a stereotyped Good Catholic Boy.
worldshaking00 wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:57 pm
The stage seems to be set for the yaoi meeting room as to where they are about to disrobe and explore one another. Andy seems happy to start there. Will Ruby regain her composure, remember the advice given to her and go to a place of comfort/safety for her first time?
She's used to that room by now, and it's actually the scene of some of her marked successes -- taking the Yaoi Club from a first idea to a working project which she's running despite being one of the youngest members. I can believe that she's comfortable there. Especially if she ends up taking charge of a lot of what follows...
worldshaking00 wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:57 pm
As we've established, the comic shop back room might not be the height of comfort but it is at least somewhat safe... if understocked of necessary contraception or sexi-ware. Having everyone at the keyhole congratulating Ruby on her breakthrough has the required comedic Ma3 punchline, but will they (the writers) close the story out by a different way?
I can imagine a whole set of possible resolutions to the contraceptive issue:

1. Ignore it. Things happen. If anyone asks later, Ruby can just blush and say "I had that covered".
2. Show that Ruby has it covered. Have Andy worry a moment, then have Ruby blush and say that she wasn't going to let that be a problem, she took a bus to a pharmacist on the other side of the city... ("Large, medium, or... Oh, okay, extra large...")
3. Have an embarrassing moment, and then have a hand appear around the door clutching a solution.
4. Have an embarrassing moment, and then Ruby goes to the door, opens it, asks Zii or Dillon if she can owe them a favour, and then says "Thanks very much, we can take it from here, you can very definitely go home now."
worldshaking00 wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:57 pm
Has it been established that Andy is a virgin?
Not explicitly, but at this point, I'd be stunned if he wasn't.
rpr wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:05 pm
Saying "OK, now we are going to have sex. Who starts?" feels so cold to me...
Depends on tone and context. At this point in this particular situation, it feels kind of weirdly sexy to me...
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rogermart
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Re: SDB 27-11-18 What I was really asking

Post by rogermart »

Chantaru wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:46 am
VoxPopuli wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:36 am
So rather than being immensely dumb, he is simply a passive-aggressive coward who can't be straight with her and would rather have her put forth all the initiative. Yeh gawds, just look for someone else, dear Ruby.
But he DOES NOT want her to put forth all the initiative. He wants her to take a chill pill. And a lot of shy people would react the way he does, by deflecting and ignoring and hoping she backs down.
Also, I know this is Ma3 but irl most people don't go from 0 to 100 in 10 minutes when losing their virginity. There are advantages to kissing, and increasingly steamier making out. Of course, that would require a different punchline.
In fact, did we ever see ppl make out in the whole comic?
Well, I don't remember in SDB, but in the Ma3 Universe there has been some instances, like Zii making out with Didi to sell some comics, or Dillon making out with Zii to test her abilities and compare them with his, or Sandra kissing Pierre at the end of the date, or she making out with Gary before he left for Montreal, or Zii making out with Sonya (when she burned her tongue), or Sonya making out with the spy (Bianca, was it?) among other instances...
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Continuity
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Re: SDB 27-11-18 What I was really asking

Post by Continuity »

Seems that Andy might be COMPLETELY lacking in experience, and really does not know how to proceed. I think maybe he needs a swift look at an educational video. Perhaps there are still a few of Gary's old tapes in a box at the apartment. He and Ruby could watch them, and Dillon and Amber could provide "Attenborough" dubbing. :))

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Spidrift
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Re: SDB 27-11-18 What I was really asking

Post by Spidrift »

Uh, no. Just no. I realise that you’re joking, but (a) Ma3 began with Zii explaining to Gary why using porn as a source of sex education was a Bad Thing, and she was right, and (b) Those tapes feature Amber, and even if Ruby didn’t worry about Andy getting fixated on The Witch, she’d probably suffer a flashback to that teenage party, and then the whole disastrous cycle would begin again.

And anyhow, I suspect that Ruby has been Doing The Reading in anticipation of this moment so diligently that she’s about to give Andy as detailed (if maybe rather clinical) a step-by-step talk-through as any virginal lad could only dream of...
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-- Motto of Hogshead Publishing of fond memory, and wise words to set your Foes List by.
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