23-06-18 Gotta little ketchup

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Giz
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Re: 23-06-18 Gotta little ketchup

Post by Giz » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:45 am

I haven't read the whole thing here but let's say (before Zii and DiDi even had sex) Zii, Gary and Lynn are hanging off a bridge about to fall to their death. In my head, DiDi saves Zii first. Not saying it's showing true love or anything but DiDi does care for Zii a great deal. With a little work, it's possible they could make this friendship turned to lovers work. Now are either of them even capable of putting in that work? I guess we'll find out. At this point, we're not that locked into any kind of ending. We do have one in mind and we're going towards it but changing our minds could still happen. We'll let the characters decide. I think they'll tell us what they want.

samtheman
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Re: 23-06-18 Gotta little ketchup

Post by samtheman » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:56 am

We're going to get a "And The Adventure Continues" or a "No Romantic Resolution" ending (for Gary at least) aren't we?

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Spidrift
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Re: 23-06-18 Gotta little ketchup

Post by Spidrift » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:29 pm

Do remember that there is nothing inherently wrong with an "And the Adventure Continues" ending. Some characters really are happiest going out there, seeking out new life and new civilisations, shagging new varieties of alien, and splitting new infinitives. Plus, it's an infinite universe, and it's reassuring to the rest of us that there's always Captain Kirk or the Doctor out there, defending us from alien jerks.

The Adventure Continues only gets a bad name when it's attached to the wrong story. It's a happy ending for something like Star Trek, because Kirk and Picard enjoy unending adventures. It's the right ending for Casablanca, because the whole point of that movie is Rick recovering his sense of responsibility and the war isn't over yet. It would suck for something like the Star Wars original trilogy, because we want the Rebellion to win and the Sith to get their faces punched, thanks very much. Continuing adventures there just mean more tyranny and oppression, and that the heroes have failed.

And, scaling back down to Ma3 -- an Adventure Continues ending would, I'd say, be fine for Gary and Sonya, and probably Kiley, because they weren't having adventures when the story started. They were in ruts -- miserable for Gary, complacent for Sonya. Having continuing adventures is a vast improvement for them. Okay, Gary wants to settle down, so his happy ending will probably be a bit more stable, but honestly, it wouldn't kill him to explore the world a bit more. He still needs to deal with some of his introversion, after all. And Sonya has and is far too much fun when she's a loose cannon, running amok. Settling her down would be a terrible disservice; all else aside, you just know it wouldn't stick.

Zii and DiDi, on the other hand, were having plenty of adventures when they started out, and their character arcs have been about realising that this isn't working for them. So their happy endings probably have to be endings, though it's just possible that complete new starts would work instead.
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Spidrift
"Brevior vita est quam pro futumentibus negotium agendo."
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samtheman
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Re: 23-06-18 Gotta little ketchup

Post by samtheman » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:29 pm

I don't have a problem if Sonya gets to continue her adventures because that's what her character arc is all about. But Gary's character arc is him wanting to find a romantic partner but so far he hasn't found one and it's looking like he isn't going to find one either. As for Zii and Didi, I really don't care what happens to them anymore. I would like to see what happens with Kiley though.

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Spidrift
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Re: 23-06-18 Gotta little ketchup

Post by Spidrift » Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:22 pm

Gary's character arc... has generally been whatever suited the plot, really. Initially, it was about him getting laid, which sometimes seemed to mean finding a romantic partner, because finding one woman who'd go to bed with him looked like challenge enough. Then, when he found several, well, he began to complain a bit about feeling used, but generally, being Gary-the-sponge, he just went with the flow. He didn't seem to mind Senna dragging him off to Paris or Sonya using him for a booty call, despite the lack of romance in such cases. Lately he's been talking about finding a solid relationship again, but that looks like he's gone back to having an arbitrary goal for plot purposes.

It probably means that he's being set up for a long-term-partnership happy ending, but the writers could yet surprise us; his happy ending could be realising that he needs a bit more assertiveness and to set his own goals and pursue them, and when he gets that right, the other stuff will come in the fullness of time.

Though Giz saying that they don't have an end point 100% nailed down worries me a little. It could mean that they'll improvise something brilliant, but it could also mean that they throw together any old nonsense.
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"Brevior vita est quam pro futumentibus negotium agendo."
-- Motto of Hogshead Publishing of fond memory, and wise words to set your Foes List by.
Avatar misappropriated from the wonderful XKCD.

dewelar
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Re: 23-06-18 Gotta little ketchup

Post by dewelar » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:41 pm

Giz wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:45 am
...Zii, Gary and Lynn are hanging off a bridge about to fall to their death. In my head, DiDi saves Zii first.
...and the first thing that popped into my head was "That's because she's the smallest and thus easiest to save." ;) The SECOND thing that popped into my head was "Oh, wait, this is Didi, who could probably pick all three of them up at once so she wouldn't have to choose." The THIRD thing that popped into my head was "Although, since Zii is the one currently giving her orgasms, she probably wouldn't even notice Gary and Lynn are there, too."

So...yeah.

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Vitocap
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Re: 23-06-18 Gotta little ketchup

Post by Vitocap » Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:29 am

TheFoolishOne wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:21 pm
and so the trolls killed the writer
Another win for this dude:

Image


Lots of specimens around here...
We, the old ghosts of Pizen Bluff, who still roam about this dead forum screaming imprecations at the characters and whatnot.

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Re: 23-06-18 Gotta little ketchup

Post by Giz » Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:56 am

dewelar wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:41 pm
...and the first thing that popped into my head was "That's because she's the smallest and thus easiest to save." ;) The SECOND thing that popped into my head was "Oh, wait, this is Didi, who could probably pick all three of them up at once so she wouldn't have to choose." The THIRD thing that popped into my head was "Although, since Zii is the one currently giving her orgasms, she probably wouldn't even notice Gary and Lynn are there, too."

So...yeah.
Obviously, I won't change your mind, but in mine, she saves Zii first even before they had sex together. They've built a friendship over time. Zii comforted DiDi many times. Opened her eyes to other ways of seeing things. They went out drinking together. Played with Gary's toys. Shared a bed. Watched movies together.


The only other persons that could compete with Zii are Kiley and maybe Sandra. And Kiley, it's only when they started having sex. But that relationship was one sided. She didn't have friendship with Kiley. Kiley didn't really let it flourish into that. So even there, I'd question who she'd save first if she had to choose between Zii and Kiley.

dewelar
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Re: 23-06-18 Gotta little ketchup

Post by dewelar » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:38 am

Giz wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:56 am
Obviously, I won't change your mind, but in mine, she saves Zii first even before they had sex together.
I actually don't disagree with that. I would say without hesitation that Didi has a better relationship with Zii than she does with Gary or Lynn. It's not a high bar, perhaps, but that's beside the point. My comment was more about my perception that Didi tends to have severe tunnel vision in the best of circumstances, which is often the cause of accidental monstrosity like that of said comment.
The only other persons that could compete with Zii are Kiley and maybe Sandra. And Kiley, it's only when they started having sex. But that relationship was one sided. She didn't have friendship with Kiley. Kiley didn't really let it flourish into that. So even there, I'd question who she'd save first if she had to choose between Zii and Kiley.
Interesting, and entirely plausible. Kiley is probably my favorite Ma3 character, and for that reason I sincerely hope that she is never again entangled with Didi :D .

Regarding the broader discussion, I have accepted that, whatever the reason, Didi simply does not grok the concept of relationships, and thus does not have the capacity to break out of her inner-directed mindset. I don't wish her ill; I just wish for someone to help her be a better person. I don't think Zii is up to that task, which is another reason I don't want to see them end up together, since to me it's a dead end for them both from the get-go.

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Re: 23-06-18 Gotta little ketchup

Post by Cortez » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:26 am

samtheman wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:29 pm
But Gary's character arc is him wanting to find a romantic partner but so far he hasn't found one and it's looking like he isn't going to find one either.
Except that wasn't his goal at the start, at first he just wanted to punch his V-card.

suranae
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Re: 23-06-18 Gotta little ketchup

Post by suranae » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:06 am

For quite a while gary didn't really have a story line he was a toy of the metaplot.

His initial complaint was he wanted to get laid because " you're not supposed to be a virgin" at his age in addition to general horniness.

He was more that willing to date /have a relationship if it was part of the package deal. He wasn't picky but 1st priority was getting his junk in a woman.

Post kiley boinking him he was a mess. I kinda wonder what it'd been like if he had dated the raven haired porn starlet. Giz & dave telegraphed that potential post amber relationship pretty hard only to drop it.

Still not buying the idea that Suzi & Didi are madly in love. It feels like an experiment.

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Vitocap
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Re: 23-06-18 Gotta little ketchup

Post by Vitocap » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:25 pm

suranae wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:06 am
Still not buying the idea that Suzi & Didi are madly in love. It feels like an experiment.
Giz came to the forum and told you so. What more do you need?
We, the old ghosts of Pizen Bluff, who still roam about this dead forum screaming imprecations at the characters and whatnot.

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Re: 23-06-18 Gotta little ketchup

Post by Giz » Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:15 pm

Let's go with in love vs madly in love. Seems less extreme. ;)

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Re: 23-06-18 Gotta little ketchup

Post by Vitocap » Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:36 pm

TCampbell wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:48 pm
For a very long time now, I have felt a disconnect between what seems to be the general consensus in the forums and the views that I think Gisele, Dave, and I hold when it comes to the character of some of our characters, particularly Zii and DiDi.
and
TCampbell wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:32 pm
I promised myself I'd make my last post when the next strip loaded, and here it is. So others can have the last word if they so choose. Being a forum regular is just more time-consuming than I can manage on more than a very occasional basis.
I know you're not posting anymore, but, on the off chance that you're still reading the forums, there are a few things I want to tell you.

You mentioned the "general consensus in the forums" being negative towards the main characters. You offered a different view. You got drowned in confrontational replies from people who seem to believe they understand this comic better than you -- even though you are part of the creative team, and your view is the canon view. You then realized that life is too short to waste it on unpleasant, unremitting forum arguments that never lead anywhere, and decided to stop posting. It was a smart, reasonable decision. Hundreds before you have made that same decision.

In a recent message, Mandy, one of the few readers still posting who share your views, recalled how for a long time...
Mandy wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:47 pm
people came back week after week, month after month seemingly only to throw huge tantrums in the forums and drown out anyone who was still enjoying the story
... and how this made fans leave the forums in droves. After all:
Mandy wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:02 pm
If I love bacon, I'm not going to read a whole book about how bacon is horrible and how I should feel bad for liking bacon.
Such an obvious truth, and yet it explains a lot.

At one point in time, there were, indeed, many hundreds of forum regulars. The great majority were devoted fans who loved these comics and felt that Zii and DiDi were funny, sweet and adorable characters. That's all in the past. The Pixie Trix Comix forums right now have about three, four dozen people who post regularly. Most are haters and trolls. They hate the comics, hate the characters, and most of all hate the happy fans who like what they don't like. The "general consensus in the forums" is a consensus of hate. But -- and this is important -- you should always keep in mind that those who visit this website every month number in the hundreds of thousands. The haters in the forums are like a drop of water in the large sea of readers who love Ménage à 3, Dangerously Chloe, Sandra on the Rocks and SDB. You really needn't bother with their huffing and puffing. They aren't representative of squat.

If anything, when looking at the present state of the forums, one should wonder why the moderators allowed things to reach such a point. The Pixie Trix Comix forums are like a case study of failure in moderation: a once vibrant community turned into a ghost of its former self because of an unchecked inrush of hatedom. Even today, there are offensive posts, insults, trolling, slut-shaming... all under the tranquil gaze of whoever are in charge of moderation, who don't seem to find anything wrong with it.

There's this person, BioYugi, who is a serial slut-shamer. You know Abby, right? She's from DC, a 12-year-old girl in grade school; a very clever, adorable, precocious child who hasn't reached puberty yet but who already has an interest in hunky boys. This is what BioYugi had to say about her:
BioYuGi wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:49 am
This makes me think that Abby, all this time, was just destined to be a bimbo. She had no hopes in school, no real future, her goal in life was to be a stupid, slutty, big-tit whore who sucked dick for dimes.
Some time later, again about Abby, he wrote:
BioYuGi wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:21 am
She's a slut savant.
And, later yet, this time about Pandora, who is a very sexually active young woman, he stated:
BioYuGi wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:26 am
Pandora is a grade-A cunt and deserves every bad thing to happen to her.
Moderators didn't react. I don't know which moderators are active right now (besides moderator Alex) but, whoever they are, no one had anything to object. You'd think slut-shaming a child should be a big matter, never mind the rest...

There's Fluffy, a Christian fundie with an Anti-Sex Anti-Science agenda. Since most of the humor in stories by Giz or Dave is based on sex, she's always angry. You know how strippers, hookers and porn actresses are always portrayed in these comics as perfectly normal, nice, happy people? I see that as a very positive message. Fluffy sees it as outrageous and is always bashing sex industry and the people involved in it. I tried explaining to her that there's nothing wrong with sex and the sex industry, but it was as helpful and productive as explaining neurological development to anti-abortionists (I tried that before, too). At one time I posted a very long message about sexual and emotional development in children (I was trying to prove that Abby is a believable and realistic character) from the point of view of anthropology, psychology and sociology, with references to several authors and books. Fluffy's reply was this:
Fluffy wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:25 am
No, seriously - what is wrong with you? /:) [...] You honestly come off sounding like someone advocating for pedophilia.
Science is not bad or wrong, it doesn't turn people evil. Understanding fetus development doesn't make me a babykiller, and understanding child sexuality doesn't make me a pedophile. So why am I being called a pedophile, or pedophilia supporter, only for explaining scientific facts? I really shouldn't have to put up with this sort of crap. It would appear that those in charge of moderation think otherwise, however, since they didn't have even a word of reprimand for the rude, abusive fundie.

There are others. There's Error of Logic, a Vyndicator-wannabe, who trolls people with mocking remarks and indirect insults. One time, comparing Giz and Dave to other authors, I mentioned Carl Barks and Stan Lee (both comic authors I like), and then Raymond Chandler. This is what he wrote:
Error of Logic wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:01 pm
I'm surprised Vitocap actually read Chandler. Was it a homework assignment?
What's surprising? That I don't just read comics, that I also read books without pictures? And what's that about homework, a way to belittle me as only a little kid in school? This was pure fetid trolling, extremely offensive, and my first impulse was to tell him to go fuck himself... but that would have been falling for his trolling, like Zii fell for Vyndicator's. I decided to stop paying attention to him instead. Oh, and, of course, there never was one word from the moderators.

There's Valkog, dmra, Gotoh, Dragon Paladin... the list goes on and on. Moderation just ignores them, and, as time passes, the forums get more and more toxic. And it all comes to a point where I wonder why I'm wasting my time reading the writings of people who have a rabid hatred for the comics I like. Mandy said it very well: "If I love bacon, I'm not going to read a whole book about how bacon is horrible and how I should feel bad for liking bacon." So what the hell am I doing here?

Following your example, I'm making this my last post. The best way to enjoy Ma3, DC and the other comics is reading the strips and avoiding the debates in these threads. Let haters and trolls have the forums, let them make this place their merry playground; I won't be coming here or reading them anymore.
We, the old ghosts of Pizen Bluff, who still roam about this dead forum screaming imprecations at the characters and whatnot.

BioYuGi
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Re: 23-06-18 Gotta little ketchup

Post by BioYuGi » Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:01 am

Describing Abby as clever. Ha. Hahahaha.

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