29-05-18 Awkward lace

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Spidrift
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Re: 29-05-18 Awkward lace

Post by Spidrift » Tue May 29, 2018 4:15 pm

It's the only option if someone insists on being all Manichean and defining anyone who isn't a protagonist and who creates problems for a protagonist as an antagonist. But, y'know, Manichaeism is dead.

There's probably a litcrit term for significant characters who aren't the protagonist or their antagonist (or the deuteragonist, or the tritagonist...), but I don't know what it is.

(Edit: Now I look around a bit, it seems that not everyone insists that the antagonist has to be the villain. Apparently, the generic Hollywood formula allows non-villainous antagonists. As in, Victor Laszlo is the antagonist of Casablanca. So I guess Lynn can be given that tag.)
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Re: 29-05-18 Awkward lace

Post by worldshaking00 » Tue May 29, 2018 4:50 pm

Pretty sure it fits. She has her own interests at heart. She might be elevating Didi, but it ultimately is for Lynn's own interest. If Didi becomes a threat to her wrestling career, do you really think that Lynn wouldn't sabotage Didi? Didi & Zii's relationship is shit, don't get me wrong. Their own foibles and fallacies supply ample conflict for their coupling to last. But Lynn is a distraction to the oh-so-easily-distracted Didi. Therefore, she is acting contrary to the idea of having Didi & Zii work out their differences and nurture the other. Is having an open relationship on general purpose a bad idea? I'm not a sociologist or sexologist but my only advice would be to be careful should one go down that path.

By definition, she is a rival of Zii for the full time affection of Didi. Zii's own insecurities play off of that, but then flawed protagonists are more fun anyway.

I'm sorry, but I don't have a suitable contrasting representative relationship (i.e. one that is solely based on love and 'sacrificing one's own comfort for the comfort of their partner')... although the so-far-platonic relationship that Gary & Zii share is close. How much comfort and sacrifice has Gary given to Zii? How much bullshit has he put up with from her? Quite a lot. Only now, in the end, does Zii start to notice that perhaps he might be worthy... now that she is realizing that stable soulful relationships and trust are more important than instinctual shagging... with tender shagging being added into the trusting relationship of course.

Side note: Lynn might find that she is the one being constricted by Didi's crushing love coils.
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Spidrift
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Re: 29-05-18 Awkward lace

Post by Spidrift » Tue May 29, 2018 5:14 pm

You're confusing morality and intentions with plot function. By the workable definition to hand, the antagonist doesn't have to be a bad person (or a good one), and doesn't have to be consciously hostile to the protagonist; they have the plot function of generating obstacles for the protagonist. And, given that Zii is as close to a proper protagonist as the plot currently gets, Lynn fits the bill; she creates obstacles for Zii by disrupting her relationship with DiDi (the relationship character in this story) -- though ironically, this may actually enable Zii to reach her goal.

Unless you define DiDi as the antagonist, creating obstacles to Zii's ultimate character development -- in which case, Gary is the relationship character, and Lynn is just a deus ex machina, distracting the antagonist so that Zii can move forward.

(Redefining the thing so that Gary is the protagonist makes Zii the relationship character and DiDi the antagonist. Redefining DiDi as the protagonist makes Zii and Gary the joint antagonist and Lynn the relationship character.)
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"Brevior vita est quam pro futumentibus negotium agendo."
-- Motto of Hogshead Publishing of fond memory, and wise words to set your Foes List by.
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Prydonian
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Re: 29-05-18 Awkward lace

Post by Prydonian » Wed May 30, 2018 12:10 am

Aw, look at Lynn pretending to have feelings. Bless.

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Re: 29-05-18 Awkward lace

Post by meps98 » Wed May 30, 2018 1:21 am

It's interesting that we can see the intensity on Maura's face but Didi's face is out of the frame. As most have speculated, I think Didi is taking this as an impromptu wrestling lesson, one in which there are no consequences to her in winning or loosing. I think it is also safe to say that Didi views Lynn as a "chick on the side" as Lynn fears. Didi is not truly committed to Zii, she just follows the orgasms.
I can't remember any time in the strip when Didi has been truly angry, as Maura is right now. Didi's been upset, heartbroken, flabbergasted, and miffed but never "I'll tear your heart out and eat it while you watch" angry. She approaches wrestling with a technical, mechanical attitude, happy when she does well, momentarily sad when she is defeated but holds no grudges and strives to do better next time, treating each lose as a learning opportunity.
Just once, before the strip ends, I'd like to see a blindly angry Didi in the ring, feeling the driving need to both win and obliterate her opponents.
The carnage would be epic.
Just not right now. Maura doesn't want to make Didi angry. She wouldn't like her when she's angry.

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Re: 29-05-18 Awkward lace

Post by True_Avery » Wed May 30, 2018 6:39 am

In this forum: people that need to hang out with real horny flirting lesbians more.

The real antagonist of this entire story is we're quickly running out of pages and brutal stupidity is still all the characters greatest foes - Lynn's greatest sin is knowing what she wants surrounded by people who don't have their first clues
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Re: 29-05-18 Awkward lace

Post by Spidrift » Wed May 30, 2018 7:47 am

meps98 wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 1:21 am
I can't remember any time in the strip when Didi has been truly angry, as Maura is right now.
Well, her verbal wig-out at Yuki that time was kind of spectacular. But it was Yuki escalated things to physical violence. DiDi’s physical strength and mind control powers presumably mean that she’s never in her life had to become physically violent.

But I’m not sure if Maura is really very angry just now. Rather, her competitive instincts have been triggered. She responds to provocations by escalating, but that’s not passionate, boiling-blood anger.
True_Avery wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 6:39 am
In this forum: people that need to hang out with real horny flirting lesbians more.
Not an option I’m very often offered. I mean, hey, the anthropology of it would surely be fascinating...
The real antagonist of this entire story is we're quickly running out of pages and brutal stupidity is still all the characters greatest foes - Lynn's greatest sin is knowing what she wants surrounded by people who don't have their first clues
Good points.
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Re: 29-05-18 Awkward lace

Post by Error of Logic » Wed May 30, 2018 4:54 pm

I'm curious how this match will end.
The first time these two wrestled, Maura dominated in spite of Chastel's brute strength. Now she's better-trained... but Maura's competitive instincts are firing at all cilinders. She might transcend herself for the victory.

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Re: 29-05-18 Awkward lace

Post by Spidrift » Wed May 30, 2018 5:29 pm

Plus, Maura is treating this as a fight; she might even "cheat" by wrestling standards. DiDi, being clueless and very slow on the uptake, presumably still thinks that it's a practice/training session. Though if that sort of thing comes into play, it'll presumably be played out for comedy, with DiDi initially going "ouch" and then getting enough of a clue that she fights back with full force.

If the plot requires DiDi to go running back to Zii in a mopey state, though, feeling like she's lost out, Maura may have a better chance than logic would suggest.
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"Brevior vita est quam pro futumentibus negotium agendo."
-- Motto of Hogshead Publishing of fond memory, and wise words to set your Foes List by.
Avatar misappropriated from the wonderful XKCD.

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Error of Logic
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Re: 29-05-18 Awkward lace

Post by Error of Logic » Wed May 30, 2018 6:01 pm

Well, I loved seeing the Tempests tossing her around the ring with impunity, so apart from plot convenience there'd be amusement value to me in watching Maura dominate.

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Re: 29-05-18 Awkward lace

Post by OllieOrOlly » Thu May 31, 2018 3:37 am

Cortez wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 9:30 am
And you're saying that Lynn's morals "aren't stellar " based on what exactly?

Wanting to bang Maura and DiDi doesn't make her a villain and she has been upfront about her intentions.
Based on how her attitude and behaviour have been prominently portrayed.

And I never said she was a "villain." Just because I don't think she is a good person doesn't automatically equate to her being a villain.
Spidrift wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 12:43 pm
OllieOrOlly wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 9:17 am
Panel three is a curious exercise as it seems to be Lynn processing a moral dilemma, which is odd since her morals aren't exactly stellar; it is a useful reiteration of her attitude, in that she views the potential conquests as just that - objects to be challenging and ultimately owned.
She sought advice about the morality of her actions at least once before. She's not totally morally empty, though she's maybe a bit too good at finding justifications for dubious behaviour. She does seem to think that being totally honest about her intentions reliably gets her off the hook. Which, to be fair, is a semi-plausible position.
Well, that citation does show Lynn *trying* to find input from outside of her own perspective, but due to the frantic, public, and theatrical setting of the pseudo-discussion, it is clear that she isn't seriously trying to change her mind. If she honestly doubted her dubious actions, she would have the discussion in private without the distraction of the arena; as you noted, Lynn thinking that being honest about her intentions gives her freeway to do whatever she wants, so likewise she can assume she is still in the right no matter what because she had a "heartfelt chat" with someone known to have a high moral standing.

Double post merged. The DAMNed

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Re: 29-05-18 Awkward lace

Post by brasca » Thu May 31, 2018 5:11 am

worldshaking00 wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 3:34 pm
Lynn fills the role of antagonist, if we consider the main cast Zii & Didi (& their 'relationship') protagonists. Truly villainous? No. But she is a plot point to help give opposition & conflict. She is in no way as smarmy as Yvan (Gary's boss), nor is she as abusive or vile as Nathan (from SDB). But she still has an agenda that isn't positive towards the health of Didi & Zii's sustained 'relationship' {and no, I don't think having an open relationship will help Zii get her groove back while Didi can get her own rocks off}. Lynn is being mostly clear about her intentions and does seem to have a genuine attraction to making Didi hers. But she had to bolster her chances by 'hiring' Dum Dum and Sweet T. as spies to gather information on her quarry/Didi. She changes her attitude (slightly) to be less offensive when courting Didi; her being more submissive before Didi's beauty had a very strong impact on how Didi felt about Lynn (and not just boob-whapping Lynn). But if we take Lynn/Annie's normal behavior and compare it to how she acts while seducing Didi, there is a difference. She is not acting 100% herself, despite honesty and open dialogue being present. She is offering presents and a career to help sweeten the deal, if not directly quid pro quo like Nathan's tactics. I liken Lynn to being very much her snake-like name: she is slow, careful to strike, luring her prey in by seeming inoffensive, then biting and coiling her prey to their inevitable end. Lynn is doing this for her own desires and not out of genuine love... and because her boss wants to sign Didi into the WW3.
Good points, but Lynn also has a professional agenda too since her unseen boss wants DiDi to wrestle for their organization. Getting her in bed is icing on the cake.

Lynn is a good antagonist because she's not so simplistically villainous as Yvan or Nathan or Eloise and Eva for that matter.

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Re: 29-05-18 Awkward lace

Post by samtheman » Thu May 31, 2018 8:13 am

I'm probably wrong but I'm predicting that Maura wins this little match, Didi goes home feeling dejected but walks in on Gary and Zii making out or banging each other on the couch. Didi joins in and then Zii, Gary, and Didi become a OT3. The comic then wraps up shortly after that then hopefully we get the wrap-up arc for Dillon's comic.

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Error of Logic
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Re: 29-05-18 Awkward lace

Post by Error of Logic » Thu May 31, 2018 8:21 am

That depends on how serious she was about an open relationship. If she insists she's the only one who can sleep around and Suzi can't, it could get ugly.

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Re: 29-05-18 Awkward lace

Post by samtheman » Thu May 31, 2018 9:11 am

I don't think Didi will care as long as she is able to get her orgasms.

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