22-05-18 I like strong men

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Re: 22-05-18 I like strong men

Post by Fluffy » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:46 am

DarkAsh wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:34 am
Please, let’s not shame people for how they want to spend their money. We don’t know what their financial situation maybe. Speculations should be left to characters and plots and not our fellow readers.
Exactly.

As a side note - certain people need to learn that they're not immune to a ban just because they're avoiding foul language when belittling other forum members. Maybe they ought to consider that carefully before continuing.

For the record, there's nothing wrong with having differing opinions and having debates over it - but there's no call to talk down to someone while doing it.
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Re: 22-05-18 I like strong men

Post by Fairy Glade's Fairy » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:56 pm

DarkAsh wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:34 am
Please, let’s not shame people for how they want to spend their money. We don’t know what their financial situation maybe. Speculations should be left to characters and plots and not our fellow readers.
@DarkAsh, you really are a good person. ^:)^

but, y'know, this wouldn't be happening if the kid hadn't brought up the subject... he openly boasted about never giving a cent to Giz coz she's not really important, unlike charities & such.... between his constant use of disparaging words to insult these comics, and now setting himself as an example of not pledging money to Giz, I dunno how much longer he has...



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Re: 22-05-18 I like strong men

Post by Rosa » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:20 pm

Fairy Glade's Fairy wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:56 pm
I remember one book... there's a city, a republic, where the people have civil rights & political rights & everything... then the people topple the government and replace it with an absolute monarchy, an almighty king... and give up all their rights... and they live happily ever after... #-o
That's the sort of thing he liked to write, yeah.

The guy was a typical upper-middle-class, ultraconservative Oxford professor who loved tradition and the ruling British oligarchy and hated dark-skinned races, the working class, women's liberation, socialism, democracy, and, in general, anything that could bring power to the people. This was a perfectly normal outlook, at the time, for a man of his upbringing and academic rank. Tolkien heartily supported the fascist regimes that took power in the 20s and 30s in most of Europe; like the bulk of British intellectuals of similar status, he felt that these fascist states acted as a military belt against what they feared most: a commie onslaught from the USSR. Of course, he also supported Hitler in the first years. He only changed his mind (again, like most British academics) when Hitler and other fascist leaders started threatening British interests. As for those fascists dictators who were never hostile to Britain, like Franco in Spain, he supported them for as long as he lived. Fritz Heinrich in his book on Nazism calls him a British Nazi, pure and simple. The term British Nazi, in this context, is used for upper-class or upper-middle-class individuals who were fascists and racists but were different from German Nazis in their brand of racism. German Nazis disliked Jews because they thought Jews were Semitic, while they were ok with people from India because they saw them as Indo-Aryans, just as good as European Aryans. British Nazis were ok with Jews because they had white skin, while they despised people from India because they had brown skin. For British Nazis, racial superiority was all in the skin - all whiteys were cool, all darkies were inferior - and they laughed at German Nazis who opposed Aryan whiteys to Semitic whiteys. Tolkien famously wrote a snobbish letter mocking Germans on that subject.

All these ideas, fears and tenets are reflected in his books. Tolkien in his late years tried to deny this, probably worried that it would affect sales, but it's impossible to take him seriously. The racism is there, the misogyny is there, the belief in the rule of a warrior elite is there. The superior men of purest blood are taller and stronger, with fair skin, brown or blond hair and blue or gray eyes. The corrupt men are wogs and darkies. Mordor is at the East, a vast land of slaves who work in state-owned farms, governed by a villain who wants to conquer the West; from there comes the onslaught of the Haradrim flying red flags. Oh, and the evil leader has a six-letter name starting with S and ending with N. And don't get me started on Tolkien's ladies; his far-right social views of a woman's place in the world completely permeate his stories.

You see, these are the things you don't find in Wikipedia - because those who write the Wiki articles on Tolkien and Tolkien's books are his legion of fans. This is why someone who has no knowledge of anything except what he reads in Wiki is going the wrong way; this is why proper study of a subject before claiming that you understand it is so very important.
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Re: 22-05-18 I like strong men

Post by Fluffy » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:48 pm

Fairy Glade's Fairy wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:56 pm
DarkAsh wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:34 am
Please, let’s not shame people for how they want to spend their money. We don’t know what their financial situation maybe. Speculations should be left to characters and plots and not our fellow readers.
@DarkAsh, you really are a good person. ^:)^

but, y'know, this wouldn't be happening if the kid hadn't brought up the subject... he openly boasted about never giving a cent to Giz coz she's not really important, unlike charities & such.... between his constant use of disparaging words to insult these comics, and now setting himself as an example of not pledging money to Giz, I dunno how much longer he has...
Not paying into a kickstarter or being critical of a comic's direction is not grounds to ban someone from a forum. You know what is, though? Attacking/insulting people who have a different viewpoint.

Honestly - do you think you're immune to being banned, just because you're avoiding foul language?
Please, don't come to me expecting me to fix your problems.

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Re: 22-05-18 I like strong men

Post by Fairy Glade's Fairy » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:28 pm

Rosa wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:20 pm
Fairy Glade's Fairy wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:56 pm
I remember one book... there's a city, a republic, where the people have civil rights & political rights & everything... then the people topple the government and replace it with an absolute monarchy, an almighty king... and give up all their rights... and they live happily ever after... #-o
That's the sort of thing he liked to write, yeah.

The guy was a typical upper-middle-class, ultraconservative Oxford professor who loved tradition and the ruling British oligarchy and hated dark-skinned races, the working class, women's liberation, socialism, democracy, and, in general, anything that could bring power to the people. This was a perfectly normal outlook, at the time, for a man of his upbringing and academic rank. Tolkien heartily supported the fascist regimes that took power in the 20s and 30s in most of Europe; like the bulk of British intellectuals of similar status, he felt that these fascist states acted as a military belt against what they feared most: a commie onslaught from the USSR. Of course, he also supported Hitler in the first years. He only changed his mind (again, like most British academics) when Hitler and other fascist leaders started threatening British interests. As for those fascists dictators who were never hostile to Britain, like Franco in Spain, he supported them for as long as he lived. Fritz Heinrich in his book on Nazism calls him a British Nazi, pure and simple. The term British Nazi, in this context, is used for upper-class or upper-middle-class individuals who were fascists and racists but were different from German Nazis in their brand of racism. German Nazis disliked Jews because they thought Jews were Semitic, while they were ok with people from India because they saw them as Indo-Aryans, just as good as European Aryans. British Nazis were ok with Jews because they had white skin, while they despised people from India because they had brown skin. For British Nazis, racial superiority was all in the skin - all whiteys were cool, all darkies were inferior - and they laughed at German Nazis who opposed Aryan whiteys to Semitic whiteys. Tolkien famously wrote a snobbish letter mocking Germans on that subject.

All these ideas, fears and tenets are reflected in his books. Tolkien in his late years tried to deny this, probably worried that it would affect sales, but it's impossible to take him seriously. The racism is there, the misogyny is there, the belief in the rule of a warrior elite is there. The superior men of purest blood are taller and stronger, with fair skin, brown or blond hair and blue or gray eyes. The corrupt men are wogs and darkies. Mordor is at the East, a vast land of slaves who work in state-owned farms, governed by a villain who wants to conquer the West; from there comes the onslaught of the Haradrim flying red flags. Oh, and the evil leader has a six-letter name starting with S and ending with N. And don't get me started on Tolkien's ladies; his far-right social views of a woman's place in the world completely permeate his stories.

You see, these are the things you don't find in Wikipedia - because those who write the Wiki articles on Tolkien and Tolkien's books are his legion of fans. This is why someone who has no knowledge of anything except what he reads in Wiki is going the wrong way; this is why proper study of a subject before claiming that you understand it is so very important.
Whoa, color me impressed! :-o the wikipedia articles on Tolkien & his works are pretty much the same as those you find in Tolkienite fansites! there really isn't anyhting in wikipedia about how his radical right-wing political & religious ideas shaped his book's world!

that was one good post... :ymapplause: I wish more posts would be so full of useful info, instead of pointless hate against sexuality and decry of the comic...



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Re: 22-05-18 I like strong men

Post by rogermart » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:37 pm

Rosa wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:20 pm
German Nazis disliked Jews because they thought Jews were Semitic, while they were ok with people from India because they saw them as Indo-Aryans, just as good as European Aryans. British Nazis were ok with Jews because they had white skin, while they despised people from India because they had brown skin. For British Nazis, racial superiority was all in the skin - all whiteys were cool, all darkies were inferior - and they laughed at German Nazis who opposed Aryan whiteys to Semitic whiteys. Tolkien famously wrote a snobbish letter mocking Germans on that subject.
Of course, it's the same with the U.S., going against the Nazis while doing segregation and Jim Crow laws in the South... I wasn't surprised when I learned that Tolkien was ultra-conservative and really regressive.

I just agree with Neil Degrasse Tyson's speech at MassU that role models are overrated. "You should choose your heroes a-la carte. Picking and choosing from one and then another, thereby assembling a kind of composite hero. That way when you discover something reprehensible about any one of them it matters nothing to you because that's not the part of them that piqued your interest." I can like an author's work even when i disagree with him or don't like him at all. Recently it happened with Nobuhiro Watsuki, Rurouni Kenshin was my favorite manga back in the day and i still find it a masterpiece, but when Watsuki was arrested for possession of child pornography some of my friends told me that I was not gonna be able to enjoy RK again, and i said to them that if he is a guilty he should pay the price, no sympathy for him, but i will still enjoy RK...
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Re: 22-05-18 I like strong men

Post by Vitocap » Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:36 am

Honor where it is due. There is something that, leaving political questions aside, should definitely be mentioned when speaking of J. R. R. Tolkien: he deserves to be remembered for his contribution to our fantastic imaginary. He is the founding father of modern fantasy fiction and fantasy worldbuilding. Our modern conception of fantasy races such as elves, dwarves, halflings (hobbits), orcs and dragons comes entirely from his works. And he was the inspiration for the creators of Dungeons and Dragons, the first tabletop role-playing game in history -- the game from which all RPGs ever made, regardless of genre or rules or platform, do stem.

As one who loves RPGs, I must say I'm thankful for this. :YMPEACE:
We, the old ghosts of Pizen Bluff, who still roam about this dead forum screaming imprecations at the characters and whatnot.

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Re: 22-05-18 I like strong men

Post by worldshaking00 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:41 am

Also a fair amount of good Led Zeppelin songs. \M/
"Be excellent to each other." - Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure
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Re: 22-05-18 I like strong men

Post by rogermart » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:29 am

Vitocap wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:36 am
Honor where it is due. There is something that, leaving political questions aside, should definitely be mentioned when speaking of J. R. R. Tolkien: he deserves to be remembered for his contribution to our fantastic imaginary. He is the founding father of modern fantasy fiction and fantasy worldbuilding. Our modern conception of fantasy races such as elves, dwarves, halflings (hobbits), orcs and dragons comes entirely from his works. And he was the inspiration for the creators of Dungeons and Dragons, the first tabletop role-playing game in history -- the game from which all RPGs ever made, regardless of genre or rules or platform, do stem.

As one who loves RPGs, I must say I'm thankful for this. :YMPEACE:
Exactly. His work was the inspiration of a lot of people like Gary Gygax, George Lucas, a lot of bands i enjoy like Led Zeppelin, Rush or Blind Guardian, even Michael Everson when he created the Unicode standard... And i think it's safe to say that what inspired them was not his regressive sociopolitical views.

It's like the Bible (yes, i went there :)) ), people on the side of slavery and on the side of abolition were not just quoting the same books, but the same verses, and it happens with books, movies, even songs, the author means one thing, the readers understand another. I still remember when Eddie Vedder was explaining that the song Alive meant that the kid was feeling cursed, but the fans thought otherwise and "they lifted the curse".
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Re: 22-05-18 I like strong men

Post by Don Alexander » Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:31 pm

ERMAHGERD

Since when did this comic forum devolve into a kindergarten?? And by that, I mean Rosa's and FGF's pointless, childish assault on EoL. Talk about pot kettle black when it comes to accusing someone of being a kid who should shut up when the grown-ups are talking... 8-|

I know it's pretty useless to point this out, but I'm amused you claim someone's a kid considering that person joined the forum about eight years ago. Must have been a really precocious four-year old. /:)

Anyway, while you may not have resulted to swear words or extremely aggressive tactics, your constant string of antagonistic posts is sufficient reason to send you to the corner of shame (temporary ban). Until, that is...

Error of Logic wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 3:59 pm
It doesn't surprise me in the least that you adhere to each other's opinion and support each other's agendas.
Mind you, I'm not entirely convinced you're not one individual flailing about with three handles.
Yeah, even before reading that post, the whole agreement daisy chain and high-fiving each other led me to check your IPs. And, to quote you: "LOL :)) " Exacty identical. L-)
Fairy Glade's Fairy wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 3:11 pm
... and the funniest part is, description is down pat right: the kid done tripped up, blundered & was found out in the end. :)) =))
Oh, the irony.

So, yeah. Sockpuppetry, being one of the classic internet crimes, is also not looked upon kindly here. Therefore, you're both banned. As in, permanently.

The DAMNed


So, now that that is taken care of, a few more comments:

- It's patently ridiculous to think someone would get banned for at times criticizing the comic, and stating they had never contributed to a Kickstarter. You know who also never contributed to a Kickstarter? Yours truly. Of course, I contribute to the forum in other ways...

- The thought that LOTR is nothing but trivial children's books is mind-boggling. I can understand not liking it (Tolkien's writing style can be pretty tedious, not to mention having to look into the appendix every few sentences... And I readily admit his worlds are very black and white good vs. evil, which is why I like A Song of Ice and Fire much better.), but his influence on literature is indubitable. Also, anyone liking Tolkien must be a kid? Have you checked the ages of people like Peter Jackson or Stephen Colbert?

Now, I confess not knowing much about Tolkien's background or political views - as someone else stated here (Rogermart?) I can enjoy his books (Silmarillion is my favorite!) independent of that. I'm a huge H. P. Lovecraft fan, and Lovecraft was a horrible person, even by the standards of his time...

- And finally, when I was first pointed to a load of reported posts in this thread, I thought it would be some mudlsinging about the comic title line... Too bad it had absolutely zilch to do with the comic...
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