27-03-18 So considerate of you

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Error of Logic
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Re: 27-03-18 So considerate of you

Post by Error of Logic »

... Oh, Yuki.
No, Yuki, no.

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DarkAsh
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Re: 27-03-18 So considerate of you

Post by DarkAsh »

Only in MA3 can someone have sex with someone else and still expect that the third party would still be interested in them. Too bad Dillon and Eric weren’t as progressive as Gary.

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Re: 27-03-18 So considerate of you

Post by worldshaking00 »

While it is true that Gary only remembered to call Yuki about the doujin pages, he did so after getting declined by Peggy for a dinner date after Gary was thinking about himself not being in a relationship with Peggy. One could infer that Gary might have (consciously or subconsciously) wanted some alone time with someone... Yuki being the next consolation in Gary's mind. Not necessarily sexual, but at least the two of them sharing a dialogue that may or may not have developed into how her phallaphobia treatment was going... or just as likely onto why Zii & Yuki weren't friends any longer.

Perhaps Yuki can only mentally handle one problem at a time, or she is still too childish & throws anger-pouts, but she shouldn't be so hard-headed about being at a place near Zii. I am not saying Zii snubbed her and that Yuki did deserve to feel upset at Zii. I'm just saying that Yuki was swept up with Angel & Sonya's peer pressure and is riding their hate-train. If she gave Zii a chance to apologize, perhaps their friendship (if not their band relationship) could be salvaged. Zii is not above apologizing when she is in the wrong (although it does make her uncomfortable... but I got the feeling that Zii's current problems are even more uncomfortable by comparison).

The "good Japanese wife" remark doesn't sound so bad when one realizes it is a mostly literal translation by a Japanese female who in her (addled?) mind still has the long term plan of curing her penile problems in the hopes of one day being Gary's wife. If one read the "what if..." strip where Gary & Yuki did get married and had a family, it fits. I'm sure that it does sound weird, akin to a non-black person calling a black person the N-word in the friendly inclusive way some of them tend to call themselves the same word amongst themselves. There is a cultural acceptance when one refers to oneself by similar terminology & familiarity, as much of a double standard that such may be. But there is the good question of whether Gary wants Yuki any longer. He is 30 years old now; perhaps he doesn't want any more of her anger shenanigans? Perhaps he will be soured by her anger towards Zii? The last few times he has been near Yuki have been painful, and maybe he's tired of that baggage. He had the spine to tell Tracy to go shove off and dumped Senna the supermodel. Just saying.

Or perhaps he just wanted to unload some doujin. Reading the comic 'as is' can get tedious unless one can get into the psychology of why a character acts the way they do. It would be a shame if the characters are just marching from one gag to another.

Matt is Matt. Not much more to say there. Yes, the 'walking in on sex' gag is wearing thin, despite Yuki using it as a way to illustrate how her therapy with Matt has helped her. To quote the Critical Role meme, "Is it Thursday yet?"

BTW, where's her phone? Not sure if insurance would cover that.
Last edited by worldshaking00 on Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 27-03-18 So considerate of you

Post by TheFoolishOne »

well, at least Yuki put on a bra for Gary coming over :D

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Spidrift
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Re: 27-03-18 So considerate of you

Post by Spidrift »

Storm-forge mystique wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:13 am
The notion of a "good Japanese wife" (大和撫子 - note that the first two characters refer to a hypothetical Japan free of Chinese influence) is definitely a thing in Japan. Whether it's racist for a Japanese-Canadian to be so hung up on it is another question.
Okay, fair enough. I’ll refrain from calling it racist... But it does sound a bit, let’s say, obsessed with the specifics of a cultural difference. That’s the kind of thing to which geeks are sadly prone. It’s not consciously racist, but it can be irritating, and it can tip over into unconscious racism on a bad day. Thinking about cultural differences in terms of clichés is a bad habit.
worldshaking00 wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:48 pm
Perhaps Yuki can only mentally handle one problem at a time, or she is still too childish & throws anger-pouts, but she shouldn't be so hard-headed about not being at a place near Zii. I am not saying Zii snubbed her and that Yuki did deserve to feel upset at Zii. I'm just saying that Yuki was swept up with Angel & Sonya's peer pressure and is riding their hate-train. If she gave Zii a chance to apologize, perhaps their friendship (if not their band relationship) could be salvaged.
I imagine that they’ll recover their friendship one day, but it may take months or years. (Ref. the epilogue to Penny & Aggie, which had at least one totally unearned display of forgiveness given. Writers hate leaving their favourite characters forever estranged, even when it’s only logical.) However, remember that we saw Yuki looking happy to be playing perky numbers with Angel, and Angel, in an unusually empathetic moment, pointed out to Zii that she’d broken things badly there. Angel and Sonya have scored their shared victory, and things have been said that can’t be un-said. Any making up may well have to wait for the five-years-after epilogue in this comic, too.
TheFoolishOne wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:58 pm
well, at least Yuki put on a bra for Gary coming over :D
I’m sure that Giz will take it off her again in the print version.
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Re: 27-03-18 So considerate of you

Post by Platonix »

Spidrift wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:12 pm
Storm-forge mystique wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:13 am
The notion of a "good Japanese wife" (大和撫子 - note that the first two characters refer to a hypothetical Japan free of Chinese influence) is definitely a thing in Japan. Whether it's racist for a Japanese-Canadian to be so hung up on it is another question.
Okay, fair enough. I’ll refrain from calling it racist... But it does sound a bit, let’s say, obsessed with the specifics of a cultural difference. That’s the kind of thing to which geeks are sadly prone. It’s not consciously racist, but it can be irritating, and it can tip over into unconscious racism on a bad day. Thinking about cultural differences in terms of clichés is a bad habit.
There's a level of irony in the statement, too: Yuki is talking about becoming a "good Japanese wife" while pegging Matt. Recall that, earlier in the comic, Kylie had to teach Yuki that there are sexual positions other than "the woman passively lies there like a blow-up doll".

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Re: 27-03-18 So considerate of you

Post by Swiftwinged Doom »

worldshaking00 wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:48 pm
While it is true that Gary only remembered to call Yuki about the doujin pages, he did so after getting declined by Peggy for a dinner date after Gary was thinking about himself not being in a relationship with Peggy. One could infer that Gary might have (consciously or subconsciously) wanted some alone time with someone... Yuki being the next consolation in Gary's mind. Not necessarily sexual, but at least the two of them sharing a dialogue that may or may not have developed into how her phallaphobia treatment was going... or just as likely onto why Zii & Yuki weren't friends any longer.

Perhaps Yuki can only mentally handle one problem at a time, or she is still too childish & throws anger-pouts, but she shouldn't be so hard-headed about being at a place near Zii. I am not saying Zii snubbed her and that Yuki did deserve to feel upset at Zii. I'm just saying that Yuki was swept up with Angel & Sonya's peer pressure and is riding their hate-train. If she gave Zii a chance to apologize, perhaps their friendship (if not their band relationship) could be salvaged. Zii is not above apologizing when she is in the wrong (although it does make her uncomfortable... but I got the feeling that Zii's current problems are even more uncomfortable by comparison).

The "good Japanese wife" remark doesn't sound so bad when one realizes it is a mostly literal translation by a Japanese female who in her (addled?) mind still has the long term plan of curing her penile problems in the hopes of one day being Gary's wife. If one read the "what if..." strip where Gary & Yuki did get married and had a family, it fits. I'm sure that it does sound weird, akin to a non-black person calling a black person the N-word in the friendly inclusive way some of them tend to call themselves the same word amongst themselves. There is a cultural acceptance when one refers to oneself by similar terminology & familiarity, as much of a double standard that such may be. But there is the good question of whether Gary wants Yuki any longer. He is 30 years old now; perhaps he doesn't want any more of her anger shenanigans? Perhaps he will be soured by her anger towards Zii? The last few times he has been near Yuki have been painful, and maybe he's tired of that baggage. He had the spine to tell Tracy to go shove off and dumped Senna the supermodel. Just saying.

Or perhaps he just wanted to unload some doujin. Reading the comic 'as is' can get tedious unless one can get into the psychology of why a character acts the way they do. It would be a shame if the characters are just marching from one gag to another.

Matt is Matt. Not much more to say there. Yes, the 'walking in on sex' gag is wearing thin, despite Yuki using it as a way to illustrate how her therapy with Matt has helped her. To quote the Critical Role meme, "Is it Thursday yet?"

BTW, where's her phone? Not sure if insurance would cover that.
I think Yuki and Gary are due for a more serious discourse than 'Well, I turned 30 and now I don't want you around anymore. Here are your comic pages, bye'. They've been too major a part of each other's lives to just have it go down so non-chalantly, especially when compared to Tracy and James who only just turned up last volume. Just as losing his virginity didn't suddenly transform Gary into Casanova, turning 30 shouldn't cause him to just dump most of his old life as he's 'too grown up for it now a la Henry V' This is still the same grown man who loves getting pegged via geek themed cosplay, he's just a little better at presenting himself in public. It would be really great to have them both discuss the shakedown with Zii and everything else that's been going on and honestly, if Gary isn't at least a little moved by all the effort this girl is making to try and be a part of his life, then I, along with most other fans, have SERIOUSLY misjudged how nice of a person this guy really is. But at the same time, what with Gary being Gary, he might be too dumb to see it himself. He's still awful at relationships, he just has a way of lucking into sex more often. I guess we'll just have to watch and wait.
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Spidrift
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Re: 27-03-18 So considerate of you

Post by Spidrift »

Platonix wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:47 pm
There's a level of irony in the statement, too: Yuki is talking about becoming a "good Japanese wife" while pegging Matt. Recall that, earlier in the comic, Kylie had to teach Yuki that there are sexual positions other than "the woman passively lies there like a blow-up doll".
Note that, a little while ago, Yuki blundered in and saw Gary apparently enjoying being pegged by Peggy. Part of the joke here may be that she thinks this is what Gary wants, so she can become a “good,” obliging wife by learning how to peg a guy.
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Re: 27-03-18 So considerate of you

Post by Zellgato »

I feel like its even less likely that Gary and Yuki will end up together. I used to vote and push for those two (or Kiley and him, or all 3 there) but not since Matt's involvement with her started. Her personality dynamic shift isn't one I personally enjoy. Also I just hate Matt in general.

Poor Gary, can't avoid things even when he tries and sees it coming. (pun potentially itended) Also... why is it always the living room with Matt's house? I can't think of the bedroom very often.

Yuki is still a tad dellusional on how things ended in their relationship I think, considering she has an assumption that they will of course get together despite all the inbetween, once she proves to be a good Japanese housewife. honestly I don't think she believes it herself.. but I think she's zero'd in on that as part of her mental trauma and that is one version of how she expresses it now.
OllieOrOlly wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:28 am

I rather feel sorry for Yuki, not just for the fact that she has been spending time with another repulsive nymphomaniac that - worse than Zii - cares nothing about her other than the fact he can get pleasure from her (Zii was certainly a self-involved hedonist, but she cared enough about Yuki to want better for her). Other than that, I feel sorry for Yuki because she is basically being treated as a rebound of sorts for Gary (by him, that is); true, they had an earlier pairing, however, due to her mania, it was extremely dysfunctional and unfulfilling for Gary to say the least. Yet, she did seem to grow genuine emotional affection for him, thus has been trying to overcome her disorder (granted, in highly dubious ways), but Gary is only going to her because of the aforementioned rebound.

Yeah.. Matt (thats his name right?) is also using her because of his issues with Gary. He also had sympathy for her but the "do it better than gary" mentality spurred him on as well after the first near death experience. His weird competitive/jealous/envy/insuffiicent issues with Gary was one of the reasons he's gotten with... several characters I think. I'm absolutely willing to bet it was his idea to have Gary walk in seeing this and not entirely Yuki's. Granted Yuki also had seen/walked into Gary in a similar position so thought it would be good to show that she can do that too.

---
on the rebound bit. Do you mean waaay in the past when they first started dating? I dont' remember that being a rebound.. Kiley was rebound lay though. I mean that issue with Yuki and Kylie was the reason he went on a several month vacation trip right? He was emotionally invested and thought himself worthless for abit after (which is part of the reason the kylie bit happened I guess. long ago so i can't remember finer details.)

Or do you mean right now? This event isn't a date rebound.. He is visiting her as a friend, not a date potential here. Peggy did turn him down there (although who knows if she knows what he meant) but he had to see Yuki at some point due to their work together and they are friedns anyway..
So current visit isn't a rebound thing. at least not atm.
and I suppose there is that bit about "was thinking of dating so she popped up on his head" Except... the immedaite before that was turning down those two. So what would be going on in his head right there is more likely along the lines of "people who have hurt/disappointed me" "people I work with and have had relations with" or "rejection" in general. Considering the peggy call and then those two turn down...
his mind set was towards less enjoyable things.

===========
On the good Japanese housewife thing.
We've seen her family before. and they were rather strongly pushing that detail.
ALSO! Her dad's tenticle doujin thing? IT was aimed at "tenticles meat the Japanese ideal girl"
So.. she's dealing with Tenticles now, so her mindset automatically associates with that.
Also while it is a cliche. It is also still a current thought process in Japan. Their culture's own traditional concept of a "Yamato nadeshiko." The phrase is strange to people maybe. but it is not much different than any other culture's natural thoughts about beauty. It's a culture perspective. I think the only problem you might be having is the actual word and how close it is to atypical racist remarks. It works better in Japanese phrasing because it refers to historical/mythical "japan as a concept" rather than "japan the land/race."
Well this is how it was explained to me in Aomori anyway.

===============

I'm still calling that Gary will get sick of things in general and leave the town/area on a more perminant basis now. But likely he'll sit Yuki down at some point and talk things out and help her reveal that she isn't that interested in him (objectively looking at various things) and instead was using him as a goal to get over her trauma. Which he'll be glad she is working on helping fix what she considers to be a problem.
Gary, simply has far far too much dramabombs in this town, and last time he started thinking himself in worth while contexts.. he was decimated and had to leave. I feel like he'll want to make a break for it sooner rather than when he gets decimated

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Re: 27-03-18 So considerate of you

Post by Gredinus »

Well this feels nostalgic :D

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Re: 27-03-18 So considerate of you

Post by Cortez »

Hogan wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:25 am
... looks like Gary is getting more and more aware of the MA3 Meta Tropes he is living amongst... and STILL he manages to get caught ip in them!
It's not on him this time though, he did ask.

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Re: 27-03-18 So considerate of you

Post by Roborat »

Okay, I know some others have touched on this, but I am still trying to get my head around it. How is "being a good Japanese wife" any different from just being a good wife? Also, I interpret this "therapy" as Yuki trying to get over her penis=tentacle monster issue for Gary. It that accurate or am I misreading? Finally, who has sex on their living room couch when there is a perfectly good bedroom available? Other people have to sit on that.

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Re: 27-03-18 So considerate of you

Post by Vitocap »

"Being a good Japanese wife" is a direct translation from Japanese. Yuki, most of the time, thinks in Japanese and translates it to English speech -- and the result is often humorous Japlish. There's nothing more to it.

If an American woman in Japan described herself (speaking in Japanese) as a "good all-American girl" she would probably get some funny looks, too.
worldshaking00 wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:48 pm
Perhaps Yuki can only mentally handle one problem at a time, or she is still too childish & throws anger-pouts, but she shouldn't be so hard-headed about being at a place near Zii. I am not saying Zii snubbed her and that Yuki did deserve to feel upset at Zii. I'm just saying that Yuki was swept up with Angel & Sonya's peer pressure and is riding their hate-train. If she gave Zii a chance to apologize, perhaps their friendship (if not their band relationship) could be salvaged.
It's not just upset at being snubbed.

And it's not swept up with peer pressure either.

Yuki and Sonya are friends now. Good friends. True friends. Remember? After hundreds of strips of dislike, jealousy, fighting, hatefucking, Kiley's ludicrous therapy, etc. etc. etc. Yuki and Sonya settled down into a solid, strong friendship -- the sort of friendship where you really care about each other and look out for each other. As a matter of fact, it's one of the most waffy things that ever happened in this comic, in my opinion. Of course, YMMV.

All this to say that, a very large chunk of Yuki's anger comes from the way Zii treated (and hurt) Sonya.

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Re: 27-03-18 So considerate of you

Post by Opus the Poet »

Interesting that Yuki has no problem with a "tentacle" of her own, remaining calm and rational and even able to make jokes without any sign of angst. But when faced with possible penetration she still gets slightly ragey. She's making huge amounts of progress that probably wouldn't be possible outside a sex-farce comic, but progress.
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Re: 27-03-18 So considerate of you

Post by Hogan »

Cortez wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:15 pm
Hogan wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:25 am
... looks like Gary is getting more and more aware of the MA3 Meta Tropes he is living amongst... and STILL he manages to get caught ip in them!
It's not on him this time though, he did ask.
Yeah, he DID try to work around, but the trope is strong with this one! :ymdevil:

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