22-02-18 Look past me

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Giz
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22-02-18 Look past me

Post by Giz »


Passing Through
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Re: 22-02-18 Look past me

Post by Passing Through »

Maybe so, but she's better than some (i.e. Didi).

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Spidrift
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Re: 22-02-18 Look past me

Post by Spidrift »

Oh dear, the fine art of giving inspirational talks to teenagers. Especially teenagers with Ma3-universe IQ levels and egos.

Like the band portrait, anyway (and Zii gets some points for depth of self-awareness in that frame). But it's when they can form a football team that you have problems.
Passing Through wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:36 pm
Maybe so, but she's better than some (i.e. Didi).
Moral philosophy question 1; which is worse; the person who causes more damage but who is genuinely too stupid to know better, or the person who causes slightly less damage, but who has the intelligence and self-awareness to know that they could do better? And how does it change things when the latter person recognises their mistakes and attempts, ineptly, to fix them?

Don't rush with the one-line answers. Whole books have been written about this sort of stuff. Not to mention at least two TV sitcoms.
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"Brevior vita est quam pro futumentibus negotium agendo."
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worldshaking00
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Re: 22-02-18 Look past me

Post by worldshaking00 »

It would appear that Zii has done some soul searching and has at least recognized some of her culpability. While it seems strange - having Zii actually give decent advice selflessly - it's a welcome change. The way she's treating Izzy is more like a little sister/big sister exchange, although Izzy's remarks do sour the moment a bit. But, that's comedy.

Indeed Izzy, you are 'better' than Zii, if only for Zii having much more experience than you.

I do like the imagery of Sonya & Angel in Zii's mindscape... very fitting. Yuki's image is a little cliche, but oh well.
"Be excellent to each other." - Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure
"Like my old grand daddy used to say, 'The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect.'" - Chester Rush, Four Rooms
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Antinerd
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Re: 22-02-18 Look past me

Post by Antinerd »

Zii should realize that without her all the people she thinks she hurt would have been far less without her.

JoybuzzerX
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Re: 22-02-18 Look past me

Post by JoybuzzerX »

Spidrift wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:44 pm
Oh dear, the fine art of giving inspirational talks to teenagers. Especially teenagers with Ma3-universe IQ levels and egos.

Like the band portrait, anyway (and Zii gets some points for depth of self-awareness in that frame). But it's when they can form a football team that you have problems.
Well, she hurt enough people who were into music, they could start a band. That doesn't mean she hasn't hurt enough to form a football team :p

Ophelianime
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Re: 22-02-18 Look past me

Post by Ophelianime »

Antinerd wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:53 pm
Zii should realize that without her all the people she thinks she hurt would have been far less without her.
Are you implying that her "relationships" with these people have somehow improved their lives? I think that needs closer examination. Too much for this one post though. Please stand by.

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Spidrift
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Re: 22-02-18 Look past me

Post by Spidrift »

Zii hasn’t been an unmitigated good to many people, but her energy and joue de vivre mean that she does sometimes make the world a more interesting place for some people. Certainly, her effect on Sonya has been ... complex. She created the monster that destroyed her, but that very monster is a far more emotional complex and fulfilled being than Sonya was before they met. And Erik regards their history as not entirely a bad thing, while Zii genuinely seems to have done Angele a lot of good.

Zii is good at bringing people out of their shells, intentionally or otherwise; Gary, Ruby, and even Amber might be other examples. When they weren’t in shells to begin with, though (Angel, Yuki), the ledger may have rather more red ink than black.
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"Brevior vita est quam pro futumentibus negotium agendo."
-- Motto of Hogshead Publishing of fond memory, and wise words to set your Foes List by.
Avatar misappropriated from the wonderful XKCD.

Ophelianime
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Re: 22-02-18 Look past me

Post by Ophelianime »

Ophelianime wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:49 pm
Antinerd wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:53 pm
Zii should realize that without her all the people she thinks she hurt would have been far less without her.
Are you implying that her "relationships" with these people have somehow improved their lives? I think that needs closer examination. Too much for this one post though. Please stand by.
Let's start with Yuki. When she and Zii met, Yuki was a difficult, phallophobic, crazed stalker; and that's how and why Zii left her. Fast forward to when Yuki tracks her down, Zii does her best to keep Yuki at arms length (except for when she sexed her to spite Gary) which was the smart thing to do, but it did little to better Yuki as a person. It's only when Yuki starts having feelings for Gary that we see her character start to develope. That developement was further helped along by Kiley, causing her to reconcile with her father. The next time we see Zii and Yuki interacting is when Yuki joins the band, which really was more of a help to Zii. Of course, it isn't until Zii asks a semi-pointed question that Yuki realizes that she has been a selfish girlfriend, ushering in her next stage of character developement. Of course, that question would never have been asked had Sonya not started an argument about that very subject.
So based on this examination of their history, I think we can conclude that Zii's positive effect on Yuki has been virtuually non-existant. 2% at best. Most of Yuki's character growth can be attributed to her feelings for Gary, and Kiley's help.
Moving onto Angel next
Spidrift wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:12 pm
Zii genuinely seems to have done Angele a lot of good.
I must have missed some strips here, because from what I can tell, Zii hasn't done Angel any good at all. In fact, I'd say that she had a negative impact. Now from what I've seen about their history, they were good friends until Zii's libido caused her to have sex with Jerzy, which is what I'm guessing led to their breakup. At the very least it must have been a factor. Now I don't think that Angel was any better of a person before their friendship fell apart, but I'm sure it had an impact. Walking in on your friend having sex with your boyfriend? That can mess you up bad. It doesn't matter that Zii didn't know that Jerzy was Angel's boyfriend, and It's definately Jerzy's fault too, for being the active cheater in the equation. But inadvertant or not, I think Zii did Angel more harm than good. So Zii's positive impact on Angel? negative 20%.
Spidrift wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:12 pm
Certainly, her effect on Sonya has been ... complex. She created the monster that destroyed her, but that very monster is a far more emotional complex and fulfilled being than Sonya was before they met.
Complex is a good word. Yes, she's certainly aquired more complexity since her debut, and certainly more emotional. But fulfilled? Not sure about that. I don't know much about Sonya pre-Zii, but she seemed to be living a normal life with a boyfriend she presumeably had a good relatioship with. (however I haven't read the "Sonya's Choice" sidestory, so I'm not sure) Since she got involved with Zii, she's broken up with her original boyfriend, realized she's bisexual (or something), developed an unhealthy fixation on Zii, made a friend in Yuki, joined two bands (both because of Zii). So she's gained some personal insight and a friend, but lost a boyfriend as well as a huge chunk of time chasing after someone she couldn't have. The tricky thing is that it's hard to seperate what Zii caused and what Sonya inflicted on herself. All in all, I think that Zii's impact on Sonya has been both positive and negative to the point where its about broken even.

Triple post merged. :ymsigh: The DAMNed

Linnah
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Re: 22-02-18 Look past me

Post by Linnah »

Even if Zii can't make ammends with the people she's hurt, at least these strips have been signs that she'll be trying to maintain a healthier lifestyle onwards.

And of course, that most likely means breaking up with DiDi and eventually having a healthier partner as well. I wish she was having this conversation with DiDi and not just Iz. Dumb as she is, I somewhat hope that she would have enough common sense to understand Zii's logic.

...she probably wouldn't have it, would she? Heh.

JackApostrophe
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Re: 22-02-18 Look past me

Post by JackApostrophe »

Ophelianime wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:29 pm
Spidrift wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:12 pm
Zii genuinely seems to have done Angele a lot of good.
I must have missed some strips here, because from what I can tell, Zii hasn't done Angel any good at all. In fact, I'd say that she had a negative impact. Now from what I've seen about their history, they were good friends until Zii's libido caused her to have sex with Jerzy, which is what I'm guessing led to their breakup. At the very least it must have been a factor. Now I don't think that Angel was any better of a person before their friendship fell apart, but I'm sure it had an impact. Walking in on your friend having sex with your boyfriend? That can mess you up bad. It doesn't matter that Zii didn't know that Jerzy was Angel's boyfriend, and It's definately Jerzy's fault too, for being the active cheater in the equation. But inadvertant or not, I think Zii did Angel more harm than good. So Zii's positive impact on Angel? negative 20%.
IIRC Jerzy wasn't actually dating Angel at the time of the Zii incident. Angel was just fixated on Jerzy. On the Zii scale that was perhaps the most innocent she ever was. Just on the Zii scale, of course.

Then again, I'm probably remembering it wrong.

OllieOrOlly
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Re: 22-02-18 Look past me

Post by OllieOrOlly »

So, Zii's realisation and explanation of how her lust hurts those who become ensnared by it seems increasingly genuine, although whether she realised it before and simply did nothing makes it a less substantial moment of growth here. Regardless, it still feels less significant because, after all, she has the DiDi trophy she had so longed for and no other lure could be stronger for her.
That said, the aforementioned DiDi trophy may be lost to Zii because of the former's stupidity and Lynn's opportunistic cunning; therefore, we may get to see if Zii's development is true or if she will - like always before - regress worse than ever (especially if she loses the crown achievement to her ego and libido).

The imagined scorned in panel 2 is brilliant. It displays certain key aspects of their personalities: Yuki's volatile temper and prone to violence; Angel's rude and snide attitude; Sonya's confidence and subtle fury; and Erik not understanding why everyone can't just forgive.

Odd Man Out
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Re: 22-02-18 Look past me

Post by Odd Man Out »

Ophelianime wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:29 pm
Spidrift wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:12 pm
Zii genuinely seems to have done Angele a lot of good.
I must have missed some strips here, because from what I can tell, Zii hasn't done Angel any good at all. In fact, I'd say that she had a negative impact. Now from what I've seen about their history, they were good friends until Zii's libido caused her to have sex with Jerzy, which is what I'm guessing led to their breakup. At the very least it must have been a factor. Now I don't think that Angel was any better of a person before their friendship fell apart, but I'm sure it had an impact. Walking in on your friend having sex with your boyfriend? That can mess you up bad. It doesn't matter that Zii didn't know that Jerzy was Angel's boyfriend, and It's definately Jerzy's fault too, for being the active cheater in the equation. But inadvertant or not, I think Zii did Angel more harm than good. So Zii's positive impact on Angel? negative 20%.
He didn't mistype 'Angel', he meant the mother of that internet troll. The one Zii slept with for revenge way back when, and who decided to dump her cheating husband as a result.

http://www.ma3comic.com/strips-ma3/Atta_girl

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Spidrift
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Re: 22-02-18 Look past me

Post by Spidrift »

Ophelianime wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:29 pm
Spidrift wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:12 pm
Zii genuinely seems to have done Angele a lot of good.
I must have missed some strips here, because from what I can tell, Zii hasn't done Angel any good at all.
Both statements are 100% true. And I try to be meticulous about spelling.

(And I will not refer to someone as “the troll-mother”. Makes her sound like a Scandinavian fairy story.)
Ophelianime wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:50 pm
I don't know much about Sonya pre-Zii, but she seemed to be living a normal life with a boyfriend she presumeably had a good relatioship with. (however I haven't read the "Sonya's Choice" sidestory, so I'm not sure)
Given the way that relationship imploded (and the way that the guy has since discovered gay tendencies so closeted he makes Sonya look like Dillon), I doubt that it would have been terribly stable in the long term. Beyond that, I’ll just say that I tend to assume that more emotionally complex, with the prospect of a creative career, is better.
JackApostrophe wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:14 pm
IIRC Jerzy wasn't actually dating Angel at the time of the Zii incident. Angel was just fixated on Jerzy. On the Zii scale that was perhaps the most innocent she ever was. Just on the Zii scale, of course.

Then again, I'm probably remembering it wrong.
No, that’s how I read it too. Zii has a very long list of screw-ups to her name, but I’d put the Jerzy/Angel incident entirely down to Angel’s effing delusions.
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Spidrift
"Brevior vita est quam pro futumentibus negotium agendo."
-- Motto of Hogshead Publishing of fond memory, and wise words to set your Foes List by.
Avatar misappropriated from the wonderful XKCD.

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Cortez
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Re: 22-02-18 Look past me

Post by Cortez »

Odd Man Out wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:08 pm
Ophelianime wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:29 pm
Spidrift wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:12 pm
Zii genuinely seems to have done Angele a lot of good.
I must have missed some strips here, because from what I can tell, Zii hasn't done Angel any good at all. In fact, I'd say that she had a negative impact. Now from what I've seen about their history, they were good friends until Zii's libido caused her to have sex with Jerzy, which is what I'm guessing led to their breakup. At the very least it must have been a factor. Now I don't think that Angel was any better of a person before their friendship fell apart, but I'm sure it had an impact. Walking in on your friend having sex with your boyfriend? That can mess you up bad. It doesn't matter that Zii didn't know that Jerzy was Angel's boyfriend, and It's definately Jerzy's fault too, for being the active cheater in the equation. But inadvertant or not, I think Zii did Angel more harm than good. So Zii's positive impact on Angel? negative 20%.
He didn't mistype 'Angel', he meant the mother of that internet troll. The one Zii slept with for revenge way back when, and who decided to dump her cheating husband as a result.

http://www.ma3comic.com/strips-ma3/Atta_girl
http://www.ma3comic.com/strips-ma3/Apology_gift

Vincent is taking it pretty well too.

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