21-12-17 Bounce back

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21-12-17 Bounce back

Post by Giz » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:59 am


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Spidrift
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Re: 21-12-17 Bounce back

Post by Spidrift » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:21 am

Ah, yes, hard work. A great distraction. Good for the soul. Sometimes, though, there's just too much of it. Given what's been implied about those two, I can't imagine Zii having a working band again before the end of the volume, absent a significant time skip. So perhaps the Troublemakers end up as the Yardbirds of 21st century Montreal; a band with a decent rep of their own, but mostly interesting as part of the origin story of several more successful musicians and songwriters.

(Aaaaaand my computer cues up a Graham Gouldman song...)

We can also see Yuki's simple tastes in play here. Offer her some straightforward fun, and why should she put up with Zii's bullshit, even if someone explains about that misunderstanding?

And I suspect we'll get a jump cut on Saturday, probably to the wrestling. This looks like temporary closure.
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OllieOrOlly
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Re: 21-12-17 Bounce back

Post by OllieOrOlly » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:36 am

Erik is chill, yet even he seems a little too chill to be giving such strong words of encouragement to Zii; I mean, I didn't expect him to smugly "I told you so" or add insult to injury (like Angel is clearly revelling in doing), however, being as supportive as to sing her praises seems a bit too much.

Zii's ego is one of her strongest weaknesses, so she should experience the pain of losing, with the knowledge it was her own fault, rather than run away to avoid the realisation or have some "hero" help repair her essentially arrogant attitude.
Her lust and ego work in tangent, which seem to cause her most significant problems, therefore "oh, it will be okay, 'cos you built a band from nothing before and can do it again," isn't good enough for her to *improve* as person (assuming she is actually capable of self-improvement); as the saying goes, "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results."
Also, effort, Erik? The only real effort Zii has ever shown to put into anything is when she is trying to satiate her lust.

Powerful emotion in artwork, as Zii's defeated expression is palpable; I still don't feel sorry for her, but credit for making her sadness - as misguided as her incredulity on top of it is - feel genuine.

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Spidrift
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Re: 21-12-17 Bounce back

Post by Spidrift » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:58 am

Erik admires Zii as a musician. He's made that clear repeatedly, notably at the Troublemakers' only public concert to date (that we've seen). He doesn't have to like everything about her to not want that to be lost. And it's not his bloody job to teach her moral lessons; he's not Jiminy Cricket, he's a decent guy who likes good rock bands.

And Zii pretty clearly put some kind of work into making the first version of the Troublemakers work; they started out with Sonya's skills rusty and her and Yuki barely speaking, and became a tight power trio that rocked that gig. Just because we didn't see Zii slogging through rehearsal after joke-free rehearsal doesn't mean that happened by magic - and everyone credited her as the band leader.
Last edited by Spidrift on Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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"Brevior vita est quam pro futumentibus negotium agendo."
-- Motto of Hogshead Publishing of fond memory, and wise words to set your Foes List by.
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Re: 21-12-17 Bounce back

Post by Fluffy » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:28 pm

Spidrift wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:21 am
We can also see Yuki's simple tastes in play here. Offer her some straightforward fun, and why should she put up with Zii's bullshit, even if someone explains about that misunderstanding?
Yeah, because I'm sure Yuki will totally forgive Zii and run right back to Zii's defunct group if she learns Zii only said what she did because her mouth was full.
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Re: 21-12-17 Bounce back

Post by samtheman » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:41 pm

Spidrift wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:21 am
And I suspect we'll get a jump cut on Saturday, probably to the wrestling. This looks like temporary closure.
I'm also thinking we'll snap to a different scene either Saturday or when the strip returns from holiday break. But I'm hoping we don't snap to the wrestling because we'll be stuck on that for at least 20-30 strips or longer (with only two strips a week starting next month) and there are other more important hanging plot threads that need to be addressed.

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Re: 21-12-17 Bounce back

Post by Shinjischneider » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:10 pm

As usual. Zii cares less about losing friends than losing bandmembers.


Bitch.

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Spidrift
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Re: 21-12-17 Bounce back

Post by Spidrift » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:54 pm

Fluffy wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:28 pm
Spidrift wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:21 am
We can also see Yuki's simple tastes in play here. Offer her some straightforward fun, and why should she put up with Zii's bullshit, even if someone explains about that misunderstanding?
Yeah, because I'm sure Yuki will totally forgive Zii and run right back to Zii's defunct group if she learns Zii only said what she did because her mouth was full.
Uh, you do realise that you’re agreeing with me, don’t you?
samtheman wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:41 pm
Spidrift wrote: And I suspect we'll get a jump cut on Saturday, probably to the wrestling. This looks like temporary closure.
I'm also thinking we'll snap to a different scene either Saturday or when the strip returns from holiday break. But I'm hoping we don't snap to the wrestling because we'll be stuck on that for at least 20-30 strips or longer (with only two strips a week starting next month) and there are other more important hanging plot threads that need to be addressed.
However, we haven’t seen anything of the wrestling for a while, and this was set up with DiDi’s last few lines to Zii. And it’ll probably be a big part of DiDi’s close-out plot, so we’ll have to go there sometime.

I’m no fan of the wrestling stories myself, but my preferences aren’t relevant here.
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-- Motto of Hogshead Publishing of fond memory, and wise words to set your Foes List by.
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Re: 21-12-17 Bounce back

Post by JoybuzzerX » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:20 pm

Seems a lot like a "And Zii bounces back!" conclusion here :p

Also, there's nothing that says "Lots of work with turn terrible muscians into good ones" :p Zii, as a musician, should know that.

Not to mention, Sonya she only thought /would be/ terrible, because she had little care for Sonya. We also never saw her think Yuki was terrible, just that Yuki's crushing on her, made her a choice she wasn't sure of.

There's a difference between making a band work, when you have little care for them, but willing to use them (Zii towards Yuki and Sonya) and trying to make terrible muscians good ones (and the groupie she doesn't seem to stand at that).

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Re: 21-12-17 Bounce back

Post by Treader » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:48 pm

Geez, Izz - let poor Terry finish his icecream first.

Oh, and their heart-to-heart, I suppose.

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Re: 21-12-17 Bounce back

Post by worldshaking00 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:01 pm

Once again, Erik proves he's cool and thoughtful. I don't know if these two even (Izzy and Terry) qualify as 'diamonds in the rough' but Terry at least qualified once before for Angel's band, and Izzy can belt out... something good... when the stars align. I expect the creative team will give Zii back her band, and they'll make a hit song (probably Maura & Tess's wrestling intro music). That way there is a neat and tidy bow wrapped around the band and the wrestling arc.

I don't really want to see another battle of the bands, between Angel's new band (with Yuki & Sonya) versus Zii's (potentially) new band. I would be satisfied to have Zii admit that their band is better, and that it was Zii's fault for alienating and using her band members. Plus, who knows really how many strips we have left? Seems a little wastrel to throw in such an extravagance.

@Shinjischneider: I sympathize with your remarks. It calls into question even more of Zii's problems. People are people first, and deserve respect. What they can do with/for you has to be secondary. Once again, it plays into Zii's stereotypical cat-like mannerisms (human - feed me, pet me, play with me... stop *scratch* no more silly human - you should have known your place.) Although to my ears "bitch" might be a little harsh.
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Re: 21-12-17 Bounce back

Post by Spidrift » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:49 pm

People who are addicted to watching fictional characters being punished (I guess it’s a hobby) may note that Zii has traded a competent, well-rehearsed band with two friends in it for a pair of sub-competent loons, one a crazed stalker and the other some kind of weepy flake. Even if she does whip them into shape and “bounce back”, she’ll have to work long and hard at it. The work may be off-stage, though, which presumably makes that vicarious judgementalism less fun. Hey ho, life is tough.

Though it’s probably as likely that she’ll reach the end of her tether with their incompetence the same time that Yuki and Sonya reach the end of their shared tether with Angel’s egocentricity. Cue complicated shouty make-up scenes.
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Re: 21-12-17 Bounce back

Post by worldshaking00 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:19 am

Makes more than good sense to me, @Spidrift. I can easily visualize Angel's ranting getting on Yuki's nerve, and Sonya getting bored without added drama. I don't know if Zii & Sonya ever could patch things up, but at least the creative team might be able to have Sonya realize that Zii helped make her more independent... and Zii give a heartfelt apology to Sonya for leading her on. No strings attached.

Unless Angel is only ranting because of subpar performance. If they can continually stroke Yuki & Sonya, inspiring them to perform even better, then Angel truly is the better. Then the apology, while still good for Zii's soul & the relationships with her 'friends', still might not lead to much of a make-up scene... at least one that might include Zii "getting the band back together."
"Be excellent to each other." - Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure
"Like my old grand daddy used to say, 'The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect.'" - Chester Rush, Four Rooms
Chivalry isn't dead, it just followed wherever being lady-like went.

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Re: 21-12-17 Bounce back

Post by brasca » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:38 am

Strangely enough Zii is getting what she originally wanted. She really didn't want to bring Sonya or Yuki into the band and now she has a chance to start over. Izzy might prove capable since she seems to be hiding something and as for Terry he can't be that terrible if Angel tolerated him for lack of better alternatives. Angel might've had other issues with him and just saw this as an opportunity to pick up a good drummer and stick it to Zii again.

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Re: 21-12-17 Bounce back

Post by Spidrift » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:26 am

worldshaking00 wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:19 am
Makes more than good sense to me, @Spidrift. I can easily visualize Angel's ranting getting on Yuki's nerve, and Sonya getting bored without added drama. I don't know if Zii & Sonya ever could patch things up, but at least the creative team might be able to have Sonya realize that Zii helped make her more independent... and Zii give a heartfelt apology to Sonya for leading her on.
They don’t have to become perfect friends, they just have to reset to the same level of squabbling creative tension that was practically powering the band before their Zeppelin-chested Yoko Ono butted in. They always had issues, but the band seemed indestructible — until Zii lost the plot completely, first over not getting DiDi, then over getting her. If and when the Zii-DiDi relationship is destroyed by its own internal contradictions, Zii may finally get a clue. In the unlikely event of her achieving actual insight, she could admit that destroying a band and two friendships over a grand passion would be unfortunate but understandable, but destroying them over a pair of boobs was just dumb.

Equally, yes, it’d be nice to see if Sonya admitted that she doesn’t love Zii so much as the freedom that Zii represents, and that she doesn’t have to like Zii to admit that she owes her that gratitude.
Unless Angel is only ranting because of subpar performance. If they can continually stroke Yuki & Sonya, inspiring them to perform even better, then Angel truly is the better.
On past form, Angel has plenty of issues, and is probably worse to be around, long-term, than Zii, despite being the smarter of the two. Temperemental, obsessive, highly egocentric, violent... It’s possible that resolving that Jerzy fixation has helped Angel settle down a bit by now, but seeing this new band fragment due to Angelic idiocy wouldn’t be hard to believe.
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"Brevior vita est quam pro futumentibus negotium agendo."
-- Motto of Hogshead Publishing of fond memory, and wise words to set your Foes List by.
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