12-12-17 Need some time alone with my thoughts

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brasca
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Re: 12-12-17 Need some time alone with my thoughts

Post by brasca » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:53 am

Alice Macher wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:04 pm
If Zii were a real person as opposed to a fictional character, I'd be appalled at the callousness being shown in this forum toward her obvious pain. Since she isn't real, I'm merely confused by it. Is she really such a monster that she doesn't deserve any reader sympathy whatsoever? (Note: that was a rhetorical question, so wiseacre "Yes she is, LOL" responses are not necessary.)
I take no delight in any of this, but it's somewhat validating to see that at long last actions have consequences. There's nothing wrong with Zii's libertine lifestyle except for her disregard for everyone else for the sake of her getting pleasure.

I have to wonder if the next Sticky Dilly Buns and Menage a 3 will have concurrent plots because I can definitely see Zii seeking out Ruby to learn how to keep her impulses in check and perhaps Ruby could learn how to relax some of her own from Zii

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Re: 12-12-17 Need some time alone with my thoughts

Post by Treader » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:20 am

Lokitsu wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:26 pm
Zellgato wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:31 pm
plot twist.
he isnt' really there.
Zii broke.l'sl
Now THAT could be a great way to get into Zii's psyche. Have her hash her faults out in her head with various delusions acting as sounding boards/jiminy crickets. Its a VERY old trope and overused, but it feels appropriate in this situation.

BTW there is a good reason for Erik to show up out of the blue. He's still Angel's manager and its very possible that he got a call explaining how Zii's band has broken up. Whether Angel called him to gloat or because there was genuine concern about Zii is anyone's guess.
Could be he just saw Terry's 'best wishes in all his future endeavors' video go up on the band's channel, and noticed Sonya and Yuki in the background. "Here we go again with the revolving door, and... those two?" So he's stopping at this room first.

I guess his reappearance explains why they were at an actual rehearsal room - if it had been their old space, the only one on hand would have been Jung. Like Erik, he's also one of the few sane characters, yes; but he wouldn't have been a sympathetic ear.

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Re: 12-12-17 Need some time alone with my thoughts

Post by uzivatel » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:03 am

Spidrift wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:53 pm
It’d be hard for Angel not to gave picked up on that, with all the interplay between Angel, Jerzy, Erik, and Zii. Though it may just be possible, given how bad characters in this comic are at communicating.
Last time we saw them, Erik and Angel did not strike me like close friends who would discuss their past relationships. Then again, Erik was last shown some 500 strips ago...

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Shinjischneider
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Re: 12-12-17 Need some time alone with my thoughts

Post by Shinjischneider » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:22 pm

Spidrift wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:07 pm
Shinjischneider wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:47 pm
She needs to suffer a huge portion of the pain she dealt others in order to become a human being that doesn't deserve a punch in the face all 5 minutes.
Gods and little fishes -- if you hate Zii that much, what do you want to see happen to DiDi?

(And don't forget to wipe the spittle off your keyboard.)
Why would i wipe your spittle off?

To be Frank. I don't care about Didi. She never was anything else than a plotdevice in this comic. A brainless Bimbo.
Too stupid and onedimensional to be worth thinking about.

So i don't know. Suffocating Zii with her double h boobs and ending up in jail?

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Re: 12-12-17 Need some time alone with my thoughts

Post by rogermart » Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:46 pm

Spidrift wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:59 pm
All true in a way, and you’re perfectly correct that Erik is one of the few characters who could logically be introduced at this place and time. But the decision to introduce any character at this precise place and time is arbitrary. A trivial bit of writing could set things up differently. Just for example, the story could have cut to Zii staggering into the apartment looking depressed, and bumping into Gary or Peggy in the kitchen. (Ruby would of course be harder, and I only mentioned her because I like her as a character, but meh, even she could have been dropped in somehow.) I don’t believe that the writers said “We need to bring someone into the rehearsal room; who could it be?”; I reckon they went “Now we bring Erik in; how do we do that?”

Which may of course yet work fine as a story decision. We’ll see.
It's simple: Instead of Zii looking depressed in the apartment, she is depressed in the comic book store, enter Ruby (looking for her yaoi fix).
That's what i do... i drink and i know things...

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Re: 12-12-17 Need some time alone with my thoughts

Post by Fairy Glade's Fairy » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:04 pm

sniff, poor Zii... this strip sho shad......
I hope she rebounds soon from this here setback & returns to her happy self...
like this:

Image

LOL, I think this is like the textbook image of a 'happy Zii' ideal. Perfection! B-)

(Also: Thx to all the nice fellas who explained what is the C-verse! I confess I never read those C-series, just the Ma3-verse ones......)

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Re: 12-12-17 Need some time alone with my thoughts

Post by Spidrift » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:03 pm

LegendaryKroc wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:46 am
Another thing I don't understand is this: If you don't hate DiDi, why have you in the past found fault with what was arguably a good thing to do? I asked you how refusing to cheat on Zii was a bad thing, and you said it was all about her... somehow. (I may not remember everything you've said around here, but I've paid attention to your posts, alright.) You may not hate DiDi, but at times it feels like she has literally no win condition in your programming.
I may have become rather cynical about DiDi's actions and motivations over time, to be sure. But the writers have never let me down; her nice moments have never been more than brief and shallow.
LegendaryKroc wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:46 am
Furthermore, why could I go back to old posts and quote you as calling her "an irredeemable monster of selfishness", or (as seen up the page) "literally heartless"? Those are pretty loaded and hyperbolic phrases.
I may have been a little too terse sometimes. What I should always say is that she is consistently written as selfish, heartless, or whatever.
LegendaryKroc wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:46 am
If I were to to use such language to describe a character, it would only be a character I absolutely, positively despised, like the Joker and Harley Quinn in several Batman enterprises.
As I said, I'd regard hating her as a waste of energy -- but I keep trying to read this comic clearly, and that means that I keep seeing DiDi behaving very badly. I mean, hating the Joker would be a waste of energy, but there's no doubt that he's usually written as a monster.

And no, before you jump to conclusions, I'm not saying that DiDi is (written as being) as bad as the Joker. I mean, she doesn't go round killing people -- and even in the terms of a sex comedy, very little of what she does is intentional; mostly, she's just amazingly unthinking. As worldshaking00 said, "She is dumb, or at least portrayed as a bimbo; can things really be her fault if she can't mastermind an evil thought?" To which, though, I personally say "Yes they really can".

It's possible that I'm more inclined than some people to judge by consequences rather than by intentions, and DiDi never used to have really bad intentions, but the consequences of her actions were fairly terrible. Let's face it, if a character deliberately did the stuff she did -- breaking men's hearts and bullying women -- nobody here would call them anything but the villain of the comic. But I don't buy the idea that good intentions excuse everything. The road to Hell is too well-paved for that.

Compare and contrast some of the actual "villains" of the comic, such as Nathan or Yvan, who are really very petty and minor compared to DiDi. They're quite human; they just want or like sexual gratification, and treat people as a means to that end. But because they know they're doing it, they look worse than DiDi, who uses people as a means to an end, but has convinced herself that she's being nice while she's doing it. I'd also suggest that the comic consistently shows the bad effects of addiction; Zii is addicted to hot casual sex, Matt is addicted to risk, Sonya is addicted to drama -- and these last couple of volumes, DiDi has become addicted to orgasms, which is why the mask of niceness has slipped and she's shown herself as at least as bad as those others, instead of hiding it.

LegendaryKroc wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:46 am
As regards to DiDi and Sonya themselves and the redeemability or lack thereof for either? Both of them have such toxic personalities that I don't have any preference between them, but I've always found DiDi more redeemable myself. She may be crazy and have deeply-rooted issues, but they can almost certainly be worked on if the writers decide they're worth the time and find the right person to do it. And the fact her mind is so warped brings more sympathy from me, as someone who has his share of social problems and issues interacting with other people - but not delusions or narcissism, thankfully. Sonya, on the other hand? the fact she doesn't have major psychological issues is just the problem with her for me: I haven't seen any evidence she's not happy with being who she is and wants to change, or that getting a taste of her own medicine has made her want to shape up and be a better person. She's still the same dumb, manipulative, egomaniacal cow who broke up a relationship via engineered cheating for her own ends but cried foul when she was cheated on herself, and that makes all the difference for me. I've said it several times before, but I just feel like I have to say it again.
Does DiDi want to change? The only thing I've seen her wanting to modify about herself is her anorgasmia, and that's about the only thing that has really changed with her. On the other hand, I completely and utterly disagree with you about Sonya; she's been all about change, which she's enjoyed even if she didn't plan it -- and I don't think she's finished yet. Which means that Sonya is surely more in line for plausible "redemption" (i.e. radical positive change) than DiDi is.

There's this weird idea that character development always has to be positive -- that it's about becoming a nicer person and kicking more butt. But actually, the questions are (a) Is this character the same person as when we first saw them? (b) If not, did we see the change happen? and (c) If so, was the transformation plausible and interesting?

On that basis, DiDi has had little character development; she's still DiDi, just a bit meaner and more focused. Zii hasn't had much either, but it looks like her current plunge downwards might catalyse something interesting if rather rushed. Gary had zero development for nine volumes, and has now undergone some rushed and borderline-implausible development, though you can say that's a consequence of nine volumes' worth of experiences. Sonya, though, is nothing like the naive and sexually confused waitress we saw on her first appearance; she's learned a lot about herself and her capabilities. Virtually every plotline she's appeared in has moved her character along a little. In the process, she's made a few screw-ups and gone to a few dark places, and in a darker and longer-running comic than this one, I'd believe that we've just seen the origin story of a major villain. But as it is, I'm betting we'll see one or two final twists in her story, so that she learns how to use her newly-developed skills without being quite such a melodrama villainess about it. That certainly strikes me as possible, and likely to be fun, whereas I'll find DiDi becoming a truly good person rather less credible.
worldshaking00 wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:48 am
I don't think Erik and Zii will goink the other.
Has anybody suggested that they might? Erik is pretty clearly coming in here as an old friend who knows enough about Zii that his advice will be informed. He comes across as too sane simply to offer a pity shag, and Zii is probably too far down to want one just now.
worldshaking00 wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:48 am
As far as Didi goes, and how the forum doesn't seem to hate on her as much as Zii, I have a few theories. She is pretty and stacked; the stereotypical nerdy male target audience will gush over her, perhaps giving her a pass.
It's funny; I've been trying to avoid thinking that might be the explanation. Oh well. One of these days, I'll shed the last of these silly urges to think the best of people.

(It doesn't help that I really don't see DiDi as the most attractive of the female cast, personally.)
brasca wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:53 am
I have to wonder if the next Sticky Dilly Buns and Menage a 3 will have concurrent plots because I can definitely see Zii seeking out Ruby to learn how to keep her impulses in check and perhaps Ruby could learn how to relax some of her own from Zii
Cute idea, but I can't see it working. To start with, although those two have clearly become friends, they've never been shown as close friends, talking intimately about their problems. (I know that I've been talking about Zii telling Ruby about her current troubles, but that would have to be because Zii was just desperate for a sounding-board.) But more importantly, it'd be a dialogue of the deaf.

Ruby and Zii are actually totally opposite characters. Zii is pure extrovert, taken to excess. She likes interacting with people, and gains energy while doing so. Her self-control problem comes down to the fact that she doesn't know when to stop; she goes from interacting casually to sex at the drop of a hat, if she likes the other person, and sex, being the ultimate interaction, feeds her more energy. Ruby, on the other hand, is pure introvert, also taken to excess for far too long; it costs her energy to interact with people, and she never got very good at it, so she ended up mostly locked in her closed little world. She's solving that problem because she's discovered that (a) interacting with people can be fun and profitable, which means that it can be worth the expenditure of energy, and (b) it's not even that difficult for a clever, attractive young woman like her. But each new interaction is still a challenge she has to work through.

So if Zii asked her how you control your impulses or avoid getting entangled in sexual complications, Ruby would probably look at her like she was talking Cantonese and mumble that you just do, it's how life is. If she was being honest, Ruby might then come back with the question how Zii finds it so easy to deal with new people all the time, and doesn't she find it exhausting? Which Zii would find equally alien, because for her, you just do, it's not exhausting, it's fun.

If they went out on the town together, Zii would find it exasperating to see Ruby continually stonewalling approaches from cute guys, and Ruby would find it terrifying to see Zii being so open with complete strangers who might be axe murderers or something. And by the end of the evening, quite likely, Zii might have persuaded Ruby to accept a phone number from one especially harmless-looking guy, and Ruby might have saved Zii from some pushy creep by some clever trick. But neither of them would quite understand how the other one did it.
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Spidrift
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tityanya
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Re: 12-12-17 Need some time alone with my thoughts

Post by tityanya » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:22 pm

Erik! He's always been one of my favorite characters, glad he's back :)

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Re: 12-12-17 Need some time alone with my thoughts

Post by Vitocap » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:34 pm

Fairy Glade's Fairy wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:04 pm
Image

Very nice Photoshop work! :-bd
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Re: 12-12-17 Need some time alone with my thoughts

Post by Fluffy » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:01 pm

uzivatel wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:03 am
Last time we saw them, Erik and Angel did not strike me like close friends who would discuss their past relationships. Then again, Erik was last shown some 500 strips ago...
Well, they're close enough as friends for Angel to know that Erik is bisexual.

Last I was aware, it isn't commonplace for people to share their sexual orientation with casual acquaintances. I mean, how would it be anyone's business which way you swing?
TwoWayStar wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:14 am
dewelar wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:57 pm
Fluffy wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:17 pm

Dangerously Chloe
More specifically, it's the C-verse because Dangerously Chloe exists in the same -verse as Eerie Cuties and Magick Chicks.
OMG!!! I HAVE BEEN WONDERING FOR...WHAT YEARS NOW?? WHY IT WAS THE C-VERSE!! I feel..so dumb! :| :((
It's okay - you're not alone. It never dawned on me, either until dewelar explained it. O.o
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Re: 12-12-17 Need some time alone with my thoughts

Post by uzivatel » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:27 pm

Fluffy wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:01 pm
Well, they're close enough as friends for Angel to know that Erik is bisexual.
I dont remember that. Then again it has been years since they made an appearance.

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Re: 12-12-17 Need some time alone with my thoughts

Post by Spidrift » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:39 pm

Angel said that Erik was bisexual. In the real world, I’d take that to imply that Erik really was bi, and he and Angel knew each other well. In the Ma3 universe, it means that it’s Saturday and Angel is Angel.
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Re: 12-12-17 Need some time alone with my thoughts

Post by LegendaryKroc » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:14 am

Spidrift wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:03 pm
I may have become rather cynical about DiDi's actions and motivations over time, to be sure. But the writers have never let me down; her nice moments have never been more than brief and shallow.
As I recall, she was the only cook in the house for a long time, not that it was ever that prominent except that it was just another thing she was pretty good at. Pretty sure that wasn't shallow, but never mind.
Spidrift wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:03 pm
I may have been a little too terse sometimes. What I should always say is that she is consistently written as selfish, heartless, or whatever.
Not sure I agree anymore with that, but I understand it better now, thanks. Like I said, forum communication lacks any of the benefits in-person communication affords us, so we can't take anything for granted. The lack of context is the root of all miscommunication.
Spidrift wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:03 pm
As I said, I'd regard hating her as a waste of energy -- but I keep trying to read this comic clearly, and that means that I keep seeing DiDi behaving very badly. I mean, hating the Joker would be a waste of energy, but there's no doubt that he's usually written as a monster.

And no, before you jump to conclusions, I'm not saying that DiDi is (written as being) as bad as the Joker. I mean, she doesn't go round killing people -- and even in the terms of a sex comedy, very little of what she does is intentional; mostly, she's just amazingly unthinking. As worldshaking00 said, "She is dumb, or at least portrayed as a bimbo; can things really be her fault if she can't mastermind an evil thought?" To which, though, I personally say "Yes they really can".
Point of clarification: My hatred for the Joker and Harley is as much grounded in seeing them as overhyped, overexposed, 1-dimensional villains with a dumb gimmick as it is in the monstrous deeds they do. What I was getting at is that most of the people I've talked to online in the past have saved their most dramatic insults/comparisons for things they really, truly hated. Things they merely disliked or were apathetic to got more mundane condemnation.
Spidrift wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:03 pm
It's possible that I'm more inclined than some people to judge by consequences rather than by intentions, and DiDi never used to have really bad intentions, but the consequences of her actions were fairly terrible. Let's face it, if a character deliberately did the stuff she did -- breaking men's hearts and bullying women -- nobody here would call them anything but the villain of the comic. But I don't buy the idea that good intentions excuse everything. The road to Hell is too well-paved for that.
No, they don't excuse anything she does, but they frame what she does in a different context. For all that writers try to justify Batman not killing the Joker by saying he would be stooping to his level if he did, that's a weak comparison. One killing that could well be quick and painless is downright harmless next to the Joker's bodycount and killing methods. Likewise the fact DiDi does what she does without a Maleficent-esque cackle every few steps puts her a slight few rungs further down the ladder of jerkishness than she would be if she did it with one.
Spidrift wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:03 pm
Compare and contrast some of the actual "villains" of the comic, such as Nathan or Yvan, who are really very petty and minor compared to DiDi. They're quite human; they just want or like sexual gratification, and treat people as a means to that end. But because they know they're doing it, they look worse than DiDi, who uses people as a means to an end, but has convinced herself that she's being nice while she's doing it. I'd also suggest that the comic consistently shows the bad effects of addiction; Zii is addicted to hot casual sex, Matt is addicted to risk, Sonya is addicted to drama -- and these last couple of volumes, DiDi has become addicted to orgasms, which is why the mask of niceness has slipped and she's shown herself as at least as bad as those others, instead of hiding it.
Yes, I know, the search for l'orgasme brings out the worst in her. But hey, character flaws are there to be overcome by story's end or guide their owner to ruin. We've seen lots of the latter, and are starting to see some signs of the former now.
Spidrift wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:03 pm
Does DiDi want to change? The only thing I've seen her wanting to modify about herself is her anorgasmia, and that's about the only thing that has really changed with her. On the other hand, I completely and utterly disagree with you about Sonya; she's been all about change, which she's enjoyed even if she didn't plan it -- and I don't think she's finished yet. Which means that Sonya is surely more in line for plausible "redemption" (i.e. radical positive change) than DiDi is.

There's this weird idea that character development always has to be positive -- that it's about becoming a nicer person and kicking more butt. But actually, the questions are (a) Is this character the same person as when we first saw them? (b) If not, did we see the change happen? and (c) If so, was the transformation plausible and interesting?

On that basis, DiDi has had little character development; she's still DiDi, just a bit meaner and more focused. Zii hasn't had much either, but it looks like her current plunge downwards might catalyse something interesting if rather rushed. Gary had zero development for nine volumes, and has now undergone some rushed and borderline-implausible development, though you can say that's a consequence of nine volumes' worth of experiences. Sonya, though, is nothing like the naive and sexually confused waitress we saw on her first appearance; she's learned a lot about herself and her capabilities. Virtually every plotline she's appeared in has moved her character along a little. In the process, she's made a few screw-ups and gone to a few dark places, and in a darker and longer-running comic than this one, I'd believe that we've just seen the origin story of a major villain. But as it is, I'm betting we'll see one or two final twists in her story, so that she learns how to use her newly-developed skills without being quite such a melodrama villainess about it. That certainly strikes me as possible, and likely to be fun, whereas I'll find DiDi becoming a truly good person rather less credible.
I'm well-aware of what Character Development constitutes, now that you mention it. And I'm aware of all those changes you keep bringing up, but let me ask you a question: What about developing her morality? How's that worked out?

When I refer to Sonya not changing, I'm not talking about all those things you keep mentioning; I'm talking about whether or not her changes have made her a better person or made her want to be one. Just because change is not intrinsically good does not mean I have to enjoy changes that are negative or regressive, or irrelevant to morality. And her moral changes, as far as I can see? Net-negative, frankly. Similar to DiDi.

Besides, if we are taking and judging these characters as if they were people who make their own decisions rather than constructs yanked around by the writers with no autonomy or choice, and I believe that's what we are doing, then we should bear in mind that changing things about oneself in real life can be difficult. To borrow a quote from Injustice 2...
A Superheroine named Vixen wrote: You can go home again, Superman. But you have to want to change.
It'd take a while to explain the entire context for that quote, so suffice it to say that in Injustice 2, Superman has turned evil out of unresolved anger and grief over the death of his wife as well as other factors and Vixen is trying to appeal to his good side. I've picked it because it perfectly encapsulates the struggle I face to make big changes to my life and maintain them, which other people I know have described similar experience with. To make and keep difficult changes, you have to want it, and that's where my opinions of DiDi and Sonya diverge.

Let me put it to you like this: Yes, DiDi has been very, very bad to those around her at times. Yes, a lot of the things you've said about her are true. But one thing I've noticed throughout this comic has been that sometimes, when she does or is tempted to do something heinous, she realises she was in the wrong and apologises.

Like when she is tempted to seduce Sandra away from her dysfunctional relationship into a girl-love one with her, but ends up giving both her tickets to the play to her so she can go with Matt and enjoy themselves. (Note also the multi-storey shoulder angel and an offhand comment from her shoulder-demon in the previous strip that she hasn't been tempted to conscious malice since pre-pubescent childhood. Not especially relevant but I feel I should point them out anyway.)

Or when she got in an argument with Yuki about having sex with Gary, and ended up apologising (in French!) when called out on it by Zii.

Or after desperately trying to get off with Gary and leaving Zii high and dry, which led to this, and later an honest discussion of her feelings of fault with Peggy, and for follow-up a rather misguided and not well-thought-through attempt to patch things up.

And at risk of repeating myself, she recognised a negative behavioural pattern she had fallen back into on autopilot and pulled herself away from it. I notice you didn't list that under DiDi's character development.

I could go on, and you could probably find a way to explain away all of those as shallow or not-counting or some variation, and there's a lot in the middle I didn't touch on, but the fact she can feel remorse and try to apologise and make amends and most importantly, may really have the potential to correct other bad behaviours of hers, means there is least precedent (or something approaching it) for DiDi to complete a redemption arc. Does she want to? I don't know the answer to that question, but I believe she could if it were properly explained to her how much damage she does when she's selfish and apathetic to other's suffering, even if she isn't trying to hurt them. It's perfectly fine to be sceptical she could pull it off, or think it would require plot contrivance this late in the game, but it's possible, even if it's not probable.

By contrast, with Sonya...

Yes, she's gotten more clever and cunning and learned how to manipulate people and use her body to maximum effect to get what she wants. There is that. But morals-wise? Her development car took a sharp right-turn onto Bitchy Lane, put the clutch into Park and decided to just sit there, it seems. And it never left. It's been years since her dark side began to creep out with the rest of her development, but her moral development vehicle is STILL THERE, with no signs of moving anytime soon.

We've almost never seen Sonya do anything purely out of kindness and devotion, and the one time I can think of involved her obsessive love for Zii (that business with the concert the performed at). We've definitely never seen her own up to it or apologise when she got a relationship broken up or hurt someone's feelings. And we've never seen her receive a major calling-out that had any deep guilt-based effect on her. If anything, Zii's constant declarations of "No!" only made her push harder to have her. Even Peggy, who's the straight-woman to all these weirdos, has wound up being Sonya's enabler due to not understanding the nature of her obsession with Zii... or possibly not caring.

And if you think about it, Zii's rejections and tryst with DiDi are the only drawbacks to her behaviour; otherwise, the whole femme fatale routine has worked out pretty damn good for her. She's got the chance to have sex with a handsome man and many beautiful women, she's been amply able to generate as much drama as she could possibly want thanks to the dysfunctional social lives of the rest of the cast, getting to know Zii gave her the opportunity to become a highly-skilled bassist, the rarity of which has given her endless chances to spend time with the object of her affection and even the painful incident from the last volume turned out to be the perfect set up for a dish to be served ice-cold. So... why exactly would she want to become better? If her experience with cheating and breaking-up had given her a taste of what it was like for Zii and she reconsidered her past actions in that light, that would be a step in the right direction, but she didn't.

I would like to think someone would read her the Riot Act, but why would they in light of recent events? She's the victim and Zii's the asshole now, so Zii's more likely to get a dressing-down for the foreseeable future. :-?? In short, Sonya won't get better without strong motivation, and unless the future conspires to make it so, pardon me if I'm sceptical she can do it.
Spidrift wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:03 pm
worldshaking00 wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:48 am
As far as Didi goes, and how the forum doesn't seem to hate on her as much as Zii, I have a few theories. She is pretty and stacked; the stereotypical nerdy male target audience will gush over her, perhaps giving her a pass.
It's funny; I've been trying to avoid thinking that might be the explanation. Oh well. One of these days, I'll shed the last of these silly urges to think the best of people.
Or, I don't know, maybe it's what others have said and she strikes some people as more of a plot device than a character so the things she does are more like plot developments to them than misdeeds. Don't lose your faith in humanity just yet.

Edit: I know, I really made a doorstopper here, but my views on this comic are complex, multi-layered and can require a lot of talking to fully communicate.

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Vitocap
Posts: 321
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 5:02 am

Re: 12-12-17 Need some time alone with my thoughts

Post by Vitocap » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:59 am

Don't worry. Your message count is at 659, and most of them aren't too long.

On the other side, Spidrift's message count is at 11727, and doorstoppers are his usual fare.
We, the old ghosts of Pizen Bluff, who still roam about this dead forum screaming imprecations at the characters and whatnot.

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Derfman
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:16 am

Re: 12-12-17 Need some time alone with my thoughts

Post by Derfman » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:06 am

Hmmm, you know....if Zii had been a male character and behaved the way she has all through this series... I wonder if all the people defending her would be as passionate in the defense of a male version of her. I mean right off the bat, sneaking into her room mates room and eating popcorn while they are having sex. Pretty creepy if it was a man watching two women....right? Now I know at first it was comic relief... but as the characters grew more real in our minds I have to wonder if she had been a he how much different we would have felt about her actions. Just food for thought.

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