28-10-17 Thanks for the advice

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dmh3000
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Re: 28-10-17 Thanks for the advice

Post by dmh3000 »

Zellgato wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:18 am
I have no reason that I can determine.. but somehow..
Yuki's plan of sex with matt, so she can have sex with Gary.. bothers me..
I guess its too similiar to that "neotare"? concept. or maybe its because she and he aren't working through the issues together and instead ran off to matt..
but it could also be matt himself. I just... kind of hate that guy.

So not sure how I personally would deal with a surprise Yuki coming back for Gary.
I almost feel like at this point, it's going to be Gary saying no, or walking in on yuki and matt (if that hasn't already happened) and just writing her off entirely on his dating list, and just friend list.
I'd be surprised if this doesn't result in Gary deciding sex makes his life too complicated and just goes purely single, no dating again, or limits sex to Peggy as Roomates with benefits, and just takes a few years to really "get to know Gary" and work on his career. Having found out what he likes him himself and what he wants to be. Kind of like when he took off for a trip? Only more planned and well thought out.

Which is kind of sad for me.. because I really adored Yuki and Gary as a couple long ago. Granted i also liked Kiley and Gary long ago for that brief instance. I like both pairings less so now though. (Kiley's case being her work-morality meter lately)
To me the Matt thing works because Gary and Yuki could never work their problems out together without Gary seriously getting hurt. As far as we've seen, she's still unhinged and violent during sex and that's considered progress for her. Matt she doesn't care about hurting, and he doesn't care either because he's into it.

If she came back to him able to fuck without having an episode, he'd probably be willing to try it again because he did like her, though he couldn't say he loves her. The effort alone might be enough to sway him, since this is a person who clearly cares about him enough to go through all that work to try and be with him.

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Spidrift
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Re: 28-10-17 Thanks for the advice

Post by Spidrift »

If I think about break-up songs, I probably think of Blondie’s “Just Go Away” or Leiber & Stoller’s “Hound Dog”. But neither fits here. Squeeze’s “Another Nail In My Heart” is more sympathetic, and might fit James in the near future. If he ends up acting out Amanda Palmer’s “I Google You”, things could get interesting.
LegendaryKroc wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:25 am
I love how James' only line to try and keep her in the room is the promise of an eventual BJ. I mean, that's what caused this whole debacle - you'd think he'd learn that's precisely the problem that's led up to all this, that if he'd just swallowed his issues and accepted the BJ she so obviously wanted to give him, all this idiocy could have been avoided. As such, it's so satisfying to see Tracy walk out on him, even if it's only temporary.
James has gone from “overdoes the feminist sympathies a bit” to seeming to have actual psychological issues. I mean, if he really thinks that women giving blowjobs is bad, he should be refusing it ever, on principle, and if he can accept the idea as okay, he should just accept the offer — but saying “you can do it one day” implies that he’s got actual issues to work through, and he knows it.

Which, weirdly enough, may make it more likely that he and Tracy stick together in the end. I mean, if the point was simply that James is a jackass, then once Tracy accepted that, all she could really do is walk out, and good for her. But a real psychological problem is a dramatic element, requiring narrative resolution. In a more prosaic story, that could mean days of talking things through, but in a comedy like Ma3, it could well mean some big emotional turnaround, like a flaming row which ends in make-up sex with Tracy’s face buried in James’s groin (“one more word and I bite down”), or a big reveal in which Tracy plonks James down in front of her Webcam page, or James getting a flashback to some triggering incident in his childhood.
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TheEighth
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Re: 28-10-17 Thanks for the advice

Post by TheEighth »

samtheman wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:38 pm
brasca wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:13 pm
I'd accept that or see if Kiley has reconnected with Matt or if he's more interested in whatever he's got going on with Yuki now, but this triangle with Gary, Tracy, and James is of little interest to me.
The fact that Kiley and Matt have been out of the comic for quite a while now tells me that they reconciled but Matt is still banging Yuki on the side and hasn't told Kiley. But Yuki is probably getting close to being "cured" and will soon go back to Gary to re-stake her claim on him. Yuki might be cured of her phobia by then but she probably won't be over her sense of entitlement.
Now if that happens, and Gary keeps that advice about being brave for 10 seconds and uses that to call out Matt on being a self-involved prick who throws his partners under the bus for a cheap thrill, I may need some help knitting a sweater for Satan
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Swiftwinged Doom
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Re: 28-10-17 Thanks for the advice

Post by Swiftwinged Doom »

I keep wondering why it is that some members of the readership still try to treat Yuki like she's such a massive problem for Gary at this stage. She cleared the hurdles of her absolute WORST days at the first years of the comic, when all she ever assumed about any male was that they were slimy, chauvanistic pigs who only took advantage of women with their icky icky penises and was clearly using Gary to only further her career as a comic writer, with his obvious crush on her making it quite easy, not to mention the prolonged stalking of Zii, though that, like the Sonya debacle was just a case of the chickens coming home to roost.

She's since been the one female in this comic who has gone through the most development to transform herself from a lame 'all Japan is J-pop anime manga girls' stereotype with an extremely fucked up past into someone who can really confront her problems, recognize bad behavior in herself and put a stop to it on her own, the major case being that SHE initiated the break up, because she realized she was completely inattentive to Gary's needs and desires as his romantic partner, as well as try to end the friction in the band, which unlike this instance was never once treated as funny or 'thank God she's finally gone back to hell', but seriously heart breaking for both characters. I don't think anyone would consider a comic where someone flees home sobbing after a break up to be a chuckle worthy moment and Gary even tried to tell Sonya to go away after, until she leaped on him to show how much better she was than her rival (which pretty fucked up as well, because by that point, she really didn't care about him either, she just wanted to humiliate Yuki for her own satisfaction).

Since then, as others have noted, she's still pined away for him, and I think Gary himself was confused on the issue, as he thought Yuki breaking up with him meant she didn't love him anymore (so why bother saying anything because that just means she'll shoot him down and that would hurt worse). He never told Peggy he was over her or Kiley, just that their history is complicated, which it really is, but he's never really opened up about his own feelings, because for the longest time, that wasn't considered important by the writers as much as his new ability to attract scores of women.

But every time they meet again, it's still pretty clear there's a mutual attraction between both of them and even when they don't talk about sex, they're happy and content in each other's company, which is arguably even MORE crucial to a great relationship than just being able to incinerate the sheets whenever they come together (and the Yuki/Sonya hatefuck arc was proof of that).

What really needs to happen at this stage is to have a point where Yuki and Gary can really talk without being interfered with by an outside distraction and be honest with how they feel and what they want and then decide if they're willing to try and get there together.

But that ball is solely in the authors' court at this time
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Vitocap
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Re: 28-10-17 Thanks for the advice

Post by Vitocap »

samtheman wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:58 pm
Gary's newfound spine and confidence will probably have some negative consequences in his life. Gary will learn the hard way that it won't be nearly as easy to walk away from Yuki when she wants to take him back by force if necessary.
Yuki is, like, the final boss of the game. Gary needs to beat her to get to his good ending, but heaven knows it won't be easy. Maybe, if the authors wanted to cut some slack to the poor guy, she could decide by herself to stick to Matt... but, yeah, I know, it's unlikely.

What makes Yuki so tough is that she has several powerful weapons that she can specifically target at Gary's weak points. She can threaten him with physical violence. She can guilt-trip him. Gary always was a wimp and a pushover when it came to these things. If he tries to reason with her, if he explains that he had a crush on her at a time when he didn't know better but that's all over now, Yuki will go berserk.

In this strip, Gary took a baby step. If he keeps going, perhaps one day he will have what it takes to tell Yuki: "No, dammit, and I don't have to justify myself: no means no!" Now that would be some character development.
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Swiftwinged Doom
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Re: 28-10-17 Thanks for the advice

Post by Swiftwinged Doom »

The trouble with this theory is that it's predicated on Yuki being a 10th as evil or mean spirited as you seem to be suggest she is. If her final meeting with Gary goes as you describe it, then basically Giz and Dave would have to reduce Yuki completely back to 0 development for it to make a lick of sense. It would also make all of Gary and Yuki's interactions up to that point make zero sense, because that level of menace hasn't been present between them for YEARS. The girl you're painting Yuki as would NEVER have let Gary close enough to become attracted to him, would never try to change herself or look at anything beyond her own needs. Whatever you may believe, Yuki HAS changed markedly for the better since this story started and Gary's finally starting to catch up. To make his final evolution come forth at the cost of Yuki's complete devolution would make absolutely no sense at this point in the story. They may not end up together, but their final encounter will be no where near as toxic as what your guessing based on where they've been prior

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Re: 28-10-17 Thanks for the advice

Post by Ophelianime »

I had to bow out of reading this strip for about a week so that I could focus on other things, so here's my reply on the latest three strips

First of all, James has gotten more and more annoying. He is so focused on putting his girlfriend on some sort of feminist pedestal that he's not treating her like a WOMAN! She's not some delicate maiden, she's a red-blooded woman who knows what she wants! Frankly, I think that his overly chivalrous treatment of her is the opposite of feminism, because he's still ignoring her wants in needs in order to fill some sort of white knight code. The only real explanation I can think of is that he was raised on Lifetime movies by femi-nazies.

Second of all, HOORAY! Gary has finally, FINALLY put his foot down! I am so proud!

Third of all, I notice that people are focusing mainly on Yuki being Gary's next hurdle. I postulate that the ENTIRE CAST of Ma3 (with the exception of Peggy) are going to be his hurdles! After all, Yuki is not the only one guilty of using Gary for her own purposes; Zii, Didi, and Sonya are guilty of that as well. Frankly, as happy as I am that Gary has finally grown a spine, he's in for an uphill battle. Becuase pretty much EVERY OTHER PERSON in this comic is used to being able to walk all over him! He's going to be facing some shock and confusion, and possibly also anger and resentment. I just really hope that he can keep on being brave.

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Spidrift
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Re: 28-10-17 Thanks for the advice

Post by Spidrift »

What’s with the video game thinking? Zii, DiDi, and Sonya aren’t fiends in female form; they’re actually friends of Gary’s, albeit rather screwed-up and sometimes selfish friends who’ve understandably got used to the idea that Gary is a bit of a doormat. If he snapped back when one of them tried to take advantage of his good nature now, they’d probably be impressed, not annoyed. In fact, this being Ma3, they’d probably decide that it made him seem kinda hot.
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themacnut
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Re: 28-10-17 Thanks for the advice

Post by themacnut »

Ophelianime is right, most of Gary's "friends" and associates are used to Gary the Doormat. Gary the Newly Re-spined is going to be a rude shock for many of them, as much as it was to Tracy here. As to how they'll respond to that, well, Spidrift is most likely right, they may end up adding themselves to his "harem", once the initial shock wears off.

In fact, Gary showing some spine may be the final push Zii needs to admit her attraction to him. Which would surely complicate things between her and DiDi... :ymdevil:
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Ophelianime
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Re: 28-10-17 Thanks for the advice

Post by Ophelianime »

Spidrift wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:47 pm
What’s with the video game thinking? Zii, DiDi, and Sonya aren’t fiends in female form; they’re actually friends of Gary’s, albeit rather screwed-up and sometimes selfish friends who’ve understandably got used to the idea that Gary is a bit of a doormat. If he snapped back when one of them tried to take advantage of his good nature now, they’d probably be impressed, not annoyed. In fact, this being Ma3, they’d probably decide that it made him seem kinda hot.
I'll concede to that on some level. The ladies aren't video game challenges, and they are technically his friends. But I think you've said it best when you said that they are also screwed-up and selfish. I'll concede the possiblility that they could react positively to his newfound nerve (assuming it lasts) but I think that it more depends on the situation. If one of their self-serving schemes hinges on his unconditional cooperation, and he refuses to cooperate, I can totally see them reacting negatively

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Vitocap
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Re: 28-10-17 Thanks for the advice

Post by Vitocap »

Swiftwinged Doom wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:50 pm
The trouble with this theory is that it's predicated on Yuki being a 10th as evil or mean spirited as you seem to be suggest she is. If her final meeting with Gary goes as you describe it, then basically Giz and Dave would have to reduce Yuki completely back to 0 development for it to make a lick of sense. It would also make all of Gary and Yuki's interactions up to that point make zero sense, because that level of menace hasn't been present between them for YEARS. The girl you're painting Yuki as would NEVER have let Gary close enough to become attracted to him, would never try to change herself or look at anything beyond her own needs. Whatever you may believe, Yuki HAS changed markedly for the better since this story started and Gary's finally starting to catch up. To make his final evolution come forth at the cost of Yuki's complete devolution would make absolutely no sense at this point in the story. They may not end up together, but their final encounter will be no where near as toxic as what your guessing based on where they've been prior
What theory? I stated facts. Keep your act together, pal, you are way too nervous. Your post looks more like a bunch of slogans hastily pasted together than a reply to my message.

Bottom line is, Gary doesn't want Yuki anymore -- period, full stop. Main point of my message is, Gary will have to face Yuki and tell it to her -- no way out. And we know Yuki will explode because that's her: a girl prone to fits of violence who can't take 'no' for an answer (as recently evidenced in the "chasing Matt" arc).

We can talk all you want about her efforts to change herself, but it wouldn't mean a thing because it doesn't entail any obligation on Gary's part. This sort of guilt-trip arguments ("Look at all I did for you! Now you have to be mine!") are simply worthless.

I do concede, though, that Gary is weak against guilt tactics; it's very easy to guilt him into doing things he doesn't want to. I just hope that, when the time comes, he will have grown enough of a pair to tell her "No, because no!" and stand his ground, 's all.
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Re: 28-10-17 Thanks for the advice

Post by Ophelianime »

themacnut wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:54 pm
In fact, Gary showing some spine may be the final push Zii needs to admit her attraction to him. Which would surely complicate things between her and DiDi... :ymdevil:
I'm a little befuddled as to why everyone seems to think that Gary and Zii should end up together. Yes, there is some sort of mutual attraction going on, but there is going to have to be quite a few changes made within this final volume for it to happen. Gary growing some nerve was a step, but let's look at everything else that'll have to happen for them to get together:
Zii is going to have to become disillusioned with Didi, the object of her fixation since the beginning of the strip, and resist her own lust long enough break up with her.
Zii is also going to have to get over her Gary hang ups. The last two times she contemplated sleeping with him, she rejected the idea. The first time put her in the shower screaming "Too GARY," and the latest time she tossed him aside immediately for Didi. And that's after she fantasized about him spouting hopelessly stupid geek flavored sexual innuendo. Quite frankly, I think she only considered the idea because she was sexually desperate. The way I see it, Zii may harbor some sort of attraction towards Gary, but she sure doesn't harbor any respect for him.
Gary is going to have to figure out what exactly he wants. Up to this point, it's all been "I'll take what I can get." He'll need to come to the revelation that the girl he wants to work for is Zii, and he'll have to actually go through the neccessary efforts in order to win her.
All that has to happen in ONE VOLUME. A volume that also has to tie up loose ends regarding Kiley, Ani Conda, Matt, Yuki, Sonya, etc. Quite frankly, I think that the writers will have to be absolute GENIUSES to pull it off.

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Spidrift
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Re: 28-10-17 Thanks for the advice

Post by Spidrift »

Ophelianime wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:58 pm
I'll concede to that on some level. The ladies aren't video game challenges, and they are technically his friends. But I think you've said it best when you said that they are also screwed-up and selfish. I'll concede the possiblility that they could react positively to his newfound nerve (assuming it lasts) but I think that it more depends on the situation. If one of their self-serving schemes hinges on his unconditional cooperation, and he refuses to cooperate, I can totally see them reacting negatively
Mostly I think they’d be confused. They’re none of them terribly deep thinkers, and having Gary turn assertive on them will probably feel like the sky turning orange. It’d just be too weird for them to get really angry about it.

But I’ll bet that Zii would decide that it made Gary aggravatingly hot. Because that’s the Zii/Gary joke these days.
Ophelianime wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:22 pm
I'm a little befuddled as to why everyone seems to think that Gary and Zii should end up together.
Nothing is certain, but there’ve been enough hints to make this look possible.
Zii is going to have to become disillusioned with Didi, the object of her fixation since the beginning of the strip, and resist her own lust long enough break up with her.
There were fairly open hints, even as she was going into the thing with DiDi, that Zii was still being motivated by lust rather than love — and that’s not a great basis for a long-term relationship. I really don’t think that the Zii/DiDi thing is going to last.
Zii is also going to have to get over her Gary hang ups. The last two times she contemplated sleeping with him, she rejected the idea. The first time put her in the shower screaming "Too GARY," and the latest time she tossed him aside immediately for Didi. And that's after she fantasized about him spouting hopelessly stupid geek flavored sexual innuendo. Quite frankly, I think she only considered the idea because she was sexually desperate. The way I see it, Zii may harbor some sort of attraction towards Gary, but she sure doesn't harbor any respect for him.
Yes, that’s the key issue that Zii has to overcome. But a Zii who gets a clue about her own emotions, and then observes a newly assertive Gary, might just manage the trick.
Gary is going to have to figure out what exactly he wants. Up to this point, it's all been "I'll take what I can get." He'll need to come to the revelation that the girl he wants to work for is Zii, and he'll have to actually go through the neccessary efforts in order to win her.
Gary has actually known ever since the night of the gig that he has a thing for Zii. He told Peggy about it. He just has to realise that, hey, maybe he has a chance there.
All that has to happen in ONE VOLUME. A volume that also has to tie up loose ends regarding Kiley, Ani Conda, Matt, Yuki, Sonya, etc. Quite frankly, I think that the writers will have to be absolute GENIUSES to pull it off.
They’ve given themselves a big job, pulling the comic to some kind of satisfactory conclusion in 150 strips, however they do it. A Gary/Zii pairing (or, my pet theory, a Gary/Zii/Yuki menage) just looks like one plausible option.
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samtheman
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Re: 28-10-17 Thanks for the advice

Post by samtheman »

A friendly reminder to Swiftwinged Doom and the other GarYuki shippers of what Gary's last encounter with Yuki was like:

http://www.ma3comic.com/strips-ma3/it_was_perfection

Also remember that it was Gary's passive obliging nature and putting up with her crap was why Yuki became attracted to him in the first place. Now that Gary, to my surprise, has grown a spine I'm hoping that he won't end up with Yuki after all. And will Yuki still find Gary attractive after he has now grown a spine and will stand up for himself?

Ophelianime
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Re: 28-10-17 Thanks for the advice

Post by Ophelianime »

Spidrift wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:45 pm
They’ve given themselves a big job, pulling the comic to some kind of satisfactory conclusion in 150 strips, however they do it. A Gary/Zii pairing (or, my pet theory, a Gary/Zii/Yuki menage) just looks like one plausible option.
Plausible yes, but let's move on to why exactly they even should be a couple? From what I can tell, the only geeky things Zii is even into is watchmen and Yaoi. And true, it takes more than shared interests to make a couple, but even so, she doesn't have much respect for him or his interests. I just don't see why everyone seems to think that Gary and Zii would be that great a couple. This could just be my inner shipper speaking, but I think that Eric/Zii and Gary/Peggy make for better pairings.

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