28-10-17 Thanks for the advice

[Fairy Glade's Fairy]

I totally, enthusiastically, 100% agree with you!
especially about Gary/Peggy...

As for why Gary with Zii is for many people a popular pairing, I can make a guess:

think of Ma3 as if it was a Hollywood movie...
at the beginning, a guy who is the most boring square ever, who is painfully shy around girls and can't score a gf to save his life, gets a new roommate who is pretty much Madonna's character from Desperately Seeking Susan, and she takes pity of him and decides to pull a Pygmalion and turn him into an attractive go-getter who will be plenty successful with girls...
that's how Ma3 begins...
well... if, at the end of the movie, these two don't fall in love and become an item, the moviegoers will rampage and burn down the movie theater......

I think it's these preconceptions, that come from romantic comedy movies, that shape how many people feel about Gary and Zii...

[Spidrift]

A friendly reminder to Swiftwinged Doom and the other GarYuki shippers of what Gary's last encounter with Yuki was like:

http://www.ma3comic.com/strips-ma3/it_was_perfection

After which, Yuki went off, determined to resolve the problems that made things so unpleasant for Gary.

Also remember that it was Gary's passive obliging nature and putting up with her crap was why Yuki became attracted to him in the first place.

Putting up with her crap, certainly. But Yuki didn’t frame that in terms of “He’s such a total doormat I can do what I like with him”; she basically talked about Gary as a nice guy, who’d tolerate things that, even then, she seemed dimly aware made her pretty intolerable.

And Gary does still seem to be a nice guy; he’s just (probably) learning the difference between niceness and total flaccidity. I suspect that the readership would be a little unhappy if Gary swung from doormat to smug bastard (though if the comic had more than one volume still to run, that would certainly be an interesting twist). So if Yuki was attracted to Gary as a nice guy who shares her interests, she’ll likely still be attracted to him now.

Plausible yes, but let's move on to why exactly they even should be a couple? From what I can tell, the onlmy geeky things Zii is even into is watchmen and Yaoi.

I think that you mean X-Men. Nobody in this comic seems to ve an Alan Moore fan. Far too dark, I imagine. Though Zii as a Promethea reader would certainly be a twist.

But Zii’s low geek index is certainly a potential problem for that pairing. Another is Zii’s persistent need for hot girl lovin’, which is what cratered her thing with Erik. Hence my theory that what they need is to add Yuki, who’d supply Gary with geek fellowship and Zii with the occasional face full of boobiez.

And true, it takes more than shared interests to make a couple, but even so, she doesn't have much respect for him or his interests. I just don't see why everyone seems to think that Gary and Zii would be that great a couple. This could just be my inner shipper speaking, but I think that Eric/Zii and Gary/Peggy make for better pairings.

Ah yes, Peggy. Tell us again how Gary needs someone who shares his taste for geeky trivia?

Anyhow, the obvious reason for thinking that Gary and Zii might end up together is that they are explicitly and persistently attracted to each other, despite their lack of strong shared interests or raw mutual lust. That means that it’s genuine attraction, not just casual compatibility. Making it work then becomes the interesting bit.

[samtheman]

Bah, this is now going to turn into a First Girl Wins (Zii) versus Last Girl Wins (Peggy) shipping war isn't it?

[Vitocap]

Hmm... then what about you, Sam? Who do you favor? Which pairing is right for Gary?

[Spidrift]

Bah, this is now going to turn into a First Girl Wins (Zii) versus Last Girl Wins (Peggy) shipping war isn't it?

Except that there seems to be a ... Middle girl? Most anime girl? Craziest girl? ... faction.

[Vitocap]

A friendly reminder to Swiftwinged Doom and the other GarYuki shippers of what Gary's last encounter with Yuki was like:

http://www.ma3comic.com/strips-ma3/it_was_perfection

After which, Yuki went off, determined to resolve the problems that made things so unpleasant for Gary.

In a psycho stalker way.

Also, memory of the fine details seems to be failing you. Your reply to Sam should have been:
"After which, Yuki denied the problems existed, and claimed Gary loved her so much he would put up with any hurt he received. But lo! she found Gary in bed with Peggy, enjoying himself immensely. Then she realized her hold over Gary was not as great as she thought, and off she went, determined to resolve the problems she could no longer deny existed."

[Swiftwinged Doom]

A friendly reminder to Swiftwinged Doom and the other GarYuki shippers of what Gary's last encounter with Yuki was like:

http://www.ma3comic.com/strips-ma3/it_was_perfection

After which, Yuki went off, determined to resolve the problems that made things so unpleasant for Gary.

In a psycho stalker way.

Also, memory of the fine details seems to be failing you. Your reply to Sam should have been:
"After which, Yuki denied the problems existed, and claimed Gary loved her so much he would put up with any hurt he received. But lo! she found Gary in bed with Peggy, enjoying himself immensely. Then she realized her hold over Gary was not as great as she thought, and off she went, determined to resolve the problems she could no longer deny existed."

That sounds more like you sticking your mindset in the author's mouth dude

[LegendaryKroc]

James has gone from “overdoes the feminist sympathies a bit” to seeming to have actual psychological issues. I mean, if he really thinks that women giving blowjobs is bad, he should be refusing it ever, on principle, and if he can accept the idea as okay, he should just accept the offer — but saying “you can do it one day” implies that he’s got actual issues to work through, and he knows it.

Which, weirdly enough, may make it more likely that he and Tracy stick together in the end. I mean, if the point was simply that James is a jackass, then once Tracy accepted that, all she could really do is walk out, and good for her. But a real psychological problem is a dramatic element, requiring narrative resolution. In a more prosaic story, that could mean days of talking things through, but in a comedy like Ma3, it could well mean some big emotional turnaround, like a flaming row which ends in make-up sex with Tracy’s face buried in James’s groin (“one more word and I bite down”), or a big reveal in which Tracy plonks James down in front of her Webcam page, or James getting a flashback to some triggering incident in his childhood.

I'm guessing you really want to see them stay together, Spidrift? At least, I've noticed you often entertain the idea that their conflicting opinions and seeming ill-fit relationship is viable on grounds of Belligerent Sexual Tension in the past. Correct me if I'm wrong, but without a disclaimer I have to take your posts at face value.

But to address the possibility you raise of this ending in a way that sees them stay together after a comedic relationship resolution... it could happen theoretically, but to be honest, I don't think we're following the Rule of Funny, right now. Rather, we're operating on the principles of Reality Ensues. Tracy and James having a blowjob fight completely killed the mood and Gary walked out, because I don't know about the rest of you but if that happened to me, I'd be running for the hills and come back only when the offending parties had sorted out their issues to a satisfactory degree, if ever. Tracy didn't give up after he told her he didn't want to be there, but her attempt to chase him down didn't change his mind because, well, why would it without some indication the problem had been fixed. With those things in mind, I seriously doubt we're going to see some sort of wacky hijink ending to this arc that sees Tracy stay with a man who has demonstrated he is stupid, douchy, incapable of approaching a simple enough matter with grace and maturity or some combination of all three.

Or maybe we will - stranger things have happened in these pages, after all - but I really hope we don't. Like I said before, combative relationships based in argument and/or mutual hatred burn out sooner or later and it's not worth Tracy's time to keep going something that will inevitably fail that way. And if James really does have a psychological problem with receiving blowjobs that is more him than her, why does he hide behind pseudo-feminist jargon and supposed "respect" for Tracy that doesn't extend to respecting her wishes? Are honesty and respect for each other's wishes not the bedrock of successful, functioning relationships? Maybe they could have done something with circa-DoA Volleyball era James and Tracy, but he's unsalvageable as a character and as a boyfriend now. All that remains is for all involved to cut their losses and move on, which is what the story seems to be doing and so should the characters in it.

That's my take on all this, anyway.

[samtheman]

Hmm... then what about you, Sam? Who do you favor? Which pairing is right for Gary?

I currently favor Gary and Peggy but I'm not going to hold my breath because I'm far outnumbered by the GarYuki and GarZii shippers. And Spidrift seems to be on the verge of writing a Zii-Gary-Yuki OT3 fanfic.

Except that there seems to be a ... Middle girl? Most anime girl? Craziest girl? ... faction.

Yes, I am aware of that faction. And if they don't get the pairing or OT3 they want they'll probably riot.

[Vitocap]

Maybe they could have done something with circa-DoA Volleyball era James and Tracy, but he's unsalvageable as a character and as a boyfriend now. All that remains is for all involved to cut their losses and move on, which is what the story seems to be doing and so should the characters in it.

That's my take on all this, anyway.

It's perfectly reasonable. As I said before, Tracy's words before leaving could be understood as a declaration of breakup, and James's answer as an attempt to bribe her: "If you don't dump me, I'll let you give me a bj some time next decade!" (Ugh. Makes you feel dumber just by reading it. Ranks high on the list of most idiotic things ever said to a lover who is mad at you...) With any luck, this is the last we'll ever hear of James.

Hmm... then what about you, Sam? Who do you favor? Which pairing is right for Gary?

I currently favor Gary and Peggy

Excellent choice, sir.

but I'm not going to hold my breath because I'm far outnumbered by the GarYuki and GarZii shippers. And Spidrift seems to be on the verge of writing a Zii-Gary-Yuki OT3 fanfic.

Heh. Well, judging by the volume of writing he pours daily in the forum, he should have the free time...

Double post merged. The DAMNed

[rogermart]

I'm on the Gary-Zii faction not because the romcoms, but for a simple (too simple i think) reason: Zii is the ungettable shiny apple for Gary...

Thinking about it, i would be fine with Peggy or Yuki, even with Kiley (although, i prefer her with Matt), but he has to at least try to get Zii...

[Spidrift]

I'm guessing you really want to see them stay together, Spidrift?

They’re fictional characters. I want a good story. We may or may not get one, and if we do it may or may not take some shape I can guess, but right now, I’m giving 70-30 odds that they end up together at the end of this volume.

If they were major characters in this comic, sure, this could be the big break-up scene, and we could see one or both of them being unhappy and then pursuing other relationships, and they might or might not get back together later after character development, and blah blah blah. What we got with Zii and Erik, in other words. But they’re rather minor, late-introduced characters, with limited potential interactions with the main cast (especially after Gary’s cool walk-and-don’t-look-back moment in this strip), and it’ll be tidier if they do resolve their problems. It’ll also be quite in character, given the way they first got together, and I don’t find it hard to see it happening.

Like I said before, combative relationships based in argument and/or mutual hatred burn out sooner or later and it's not worth Tracy's time to keep going something that will inevitably fail that way.

Which is why a satisfactory resolution needs to lower the temperature from the current firestorm. But what they’ve got isn’t and never was some Yuki-Sonya succession of hatefucks. From what we saw of their first evening, they just disagreed about something, got into an argument, voices were raised, and that energy turned into passion. That’s not hatred, it’s mutual engagement. Working relationships have been built on weirder platforms. And who wants to see couples who agree on everything?

And if James really does have a psychological problem with receiving blowjobs that is more him than her, why does he hide behind pseudo-feminist jargon and supposed "respect" for Tracy that doesn't extend to respecting her wishes?

Because that’s what people do. Not everyone with a psychological problem is able to say “Oh yes, I have this problem, I’m aware of it and am working on fixing it”; the very nature of many such problems is that the sufferer is unable to recognise that they’re problems. That’s why therapists get paid the big bucks for digging through the verbiage to what’s really going on.

And I’m really quite confused as to why James attracts quite so much hatred round here. The boy’s a fool, and he’s been thoughtless in this story, to be sure, and the flanderisation with him has been pretty horrible — but he’s hardly a Matt-style cold-blooded two-timer, or a Nathanesque sleazebag. At least his rationalisations are vaguely idealistic. But perhaps G&D know their readers better than I do, and James is being set up for a transfer to the Anchorage office, while Tracy can join Gary’s rapturous submissive harem in the last strip.

And Spidrift seems to be on the verge of writing a Zii-Gary-Yuki OT3 fanfic.

I’m not married to that menage idea. But it occurred to me as something that would actually resolve pretty well all the problems suffered by those three characters and wrap their stories up nicely, and for me, it’s one of those “once you’ve seen it you can’t un-see it” things.

Double post merged. The DAMNed

[Fairy Glade's Fairy]

Ophelianime is right, most of Gary's "friends" and associates are used to Gary the Doormat. Gary the Newly Re-spined is going to be a rude shock for many of them, as much as it was to Tracy here. As to how they'll respond to that, well, Spidrift is most likely right, they may end up adding themselves to his "harem", once the initial shock wears off.

In fact, Gary showing some spine may be the final push Zii needs to admit her attraction to him. Which would surely complicate things between her and DiDi...

Gary changed a little, but I don't think it will be THAT brutal and obvious to everyone... it's not like he'll become a totally different person... at most he'll start saying 'no' when pple come to him with really farfetched demands, the rest of the time he'll be good old Gary as always.....

"After which, Yuki denied the problems existed, and claimed Gary loved her so much he would put up with any hurt he received. But lo! she found Gary in bed with Peggy, enjoying himself immensely. Then she realized her hold over Gary was not as great as she thought, and off she went, determined to resolve the problems she could no longer deny existed."

ah yeah I remember, lol, that was the '1-up! 1-up!' scene, when they were doing SuperMario characters w/genders inverted! that was the funniest scene of sex in costume in this comic ever, no contest.....

what was Gary's dialogue again? something about making a cake?

And I’m really quite confused as to why James attracts quite so much hatred round here. The boy’s a fool, and he’s been thoughtless in this story, to be sure, and the flanderisation with him has been pretty horrible — but he’s hardly a Matt-style cold-blooded two-timer, or a Nathanesque sleazebag.

ah? you really don't get it?
it's not that hard...
imagine if Dillon had never left Matt and all of Matt's naughty antics came with a sidedish of Dillon suffering, cause he wants Matt all for himself but Matt keeps disappointing & hurting him...
can picture it?
and now imagine if Amber still was Nathan's squeeze and was all the time trying to persuade him to be faithful to her, but no luck, cause Nathan is closet gay & runs away to fuck boys every chance he gets...

everyone would be furious, first at the wretch who keeps hurting his lover's feelings, second at the lover who doesn't kick him to the curb.....

but of course Dillon and Amber are smarter than that! they split up, cause those guys who acted like that weren't what they wanted...
now if only Tracy could learn from them......

[suranae]

It'd be nice for a two page flirtation on the street with the unreal possibility of Gary & Amber's raven headed friend, Chanelle being a thing.

[Error of Logic]

Chanelle is - in my opinion - one of the most beautiful women in Ma3, but she started that whole porn star orgy. I don't think she'd be good for Gary at a stage where he's finally maturing his endoskeleton.