16-09-17 Gluteus maximus

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suranae
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Re: 16-09-17 Gluteus maximus

Post by suranae »

When MA3 started Gary's problem was that he was hopelessly clueless. As the comic progressed that apparently grew to include spineless cowardice in the respect that he'll just go along with someone else's program for no good reason.

It'd be nice if a seasoned version of the Gary from the first 200 pages returned.

samtheman
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Re: 16-09-17 Gluteus maximus

Post by samtheman »

Gary is never going to grow a spine and become more assertive because that would go against his character archetype.

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brasca
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Re: 16-09-17 Gluteus maximus

Post by brasca »

You call it spinelessness I call it flexibility and it's served him well. If he said no every time he felt remotely uncomfortable with a situation he'd still be a virgin. Yes, there are times when the trade off is uneven, but he still got something out of it.

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edisnooM
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Re: 16-09-17 Gluteus maximus

Post by edisnooM »

Well at least Zii isn't completely rubbing it in Gary's face, though that may yet come.

As far as Gary and Peggy's "relationship", I don't know that I would call it toxic, but I don't think it's entirely helpful to Gary's growth as a character. Peggy has been upfront that she doesn't want an actual relationship which Gary does, yet as we saw with the conclusion of the Maura arc she apparently has no intention of backing away even when Gary is seemingly starting to branch out. And Gary for his part likewise doesn't seem to think backing off when embarking on a possible new relationship is a good idea.

It sort of seems like as long as their arrangement continues Gary's growth as a character goes a bit stagnate (more so than usual anyway).

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Spidrift
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Re: 16-09-17 Gluteus maximus

Post by Spidrift »

Boro wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:25 pm
Agreed. The guy needs to man up already.
I don't like to say "man up" because he doesn't have to be particularly masculine. Gods know this comic has plenty of female characters who are fully capable of asserting themselves. More to the point, it has plenty of female and some male characters with identifiable personalities who don't blame all their failings on other people.
samtheman wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:45 pm
Gary is never going to grow a spine and become more assertive because that would go against his character archetype.
The spinelessness (or flexibility) could be a personality trait, sure - if Gary had a personality.
brasca wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:27 pm
You call it spinelessness I call it flexibility and it's served him well. If he said no every time he felt remotely uncomfortable with a situation he'd still be a virgin. Yes, there are times when the trade off is uneven, but he still got something out of it.
Oh, sure, he's doing fine for himself, through no effort on his own part. But that's the problem with him as a character; he doesn't really do anything. If anyone asked "What is a typical, defining Gary action or reaction?", the only convincing answers would be "do nothing", "whine", or "panic ineffectually". He's a null.

Which actually raises the question of whether he has a function in this scene. He's present, but that may just be to help set up the character interaction in this strip. One way he might be useful is if Peggy chews Zii out, Zii tries to appeal to Gary for support, and Gary comes in on Peggy's side. It could happen; he has actually made some feeble efforts to question some of Zii's more dubious actions in the past. And let's face it; if Gary points out that you've done a bad thing, you must really suck.

(So now, he'll likely sit there like a cabbage.)

And on that topic - I wonder if, after Peggy has got through to her, we'll see Zii repeat her first ever attempt to apologise to Sonya, at the coffee shop? If so, I'd love to see Sonya respond with ice cold politeness this time. Because Zii is probably stupid enough to take that as a good sign, when actually it should make her crap herself in sheer terror.

(Yes, I do think that Peggy could get through to Zii. We already know that Zii knows that her feeble attempt at denial here is bullshit, and she's decent enough to admit she's wrong when pushed hard enough. It's DiDi who the writers have turned into an irredeemable monster of selfishness.)
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Cortez
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Re: 16-09-17 Gluteus maximus

Post by Cortez »

Yeah, i mean, Zii clearly knows of Sonya's feelings for her.

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Boro
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Re: 16-09-17 Gluteus maximus

Post by Boro »

Spidrift wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:04 pm
I don't like to say "man up" because he doesn't have to be particularly masculine.
I mean, he's a man, who got his non-existent sexual life turned upside down and he got the job he likes. A solid reasons to get some confidence in his temper.
Spidrift wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:04 pm
Gods know this comic has plenty of female characters who are fully capable of asserting themselves.
No doubt, but what this have to do with him staying weak submissive person?
Spidrift wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:04 pm
More to the point, it has plenty of female and some male characters with identifiable personalities who don't blame all their failings on other people.
I don't understand what this have to do with "blaming" and why are you putting other characters into this?

Anyway, I think Gary reached the point where he can grow as a character a long time ago and he should at least express that in some way.

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Spidrift
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Re: 16-09-17 Gluteus maximus

Post by Spidrift »

"Man up" is just completely the wrong term here. Someone could literally tell Gary to act more like a woman, and they'd be telling him to display more willpower and personality - because every woman he knows has more of both than him. It's a terribly poor choice of words, is all.

And the blaming other people is just part of Gary's lack of personality - a small but obnoxious part, that we especially saw early on, when he explained to Zii why he is like he is. "It was my upbringing, those horrible girls bullied me"... No, Gary, that was over ten years ago now, and you've shown you can get over the religious indoctrination, while the worst the girls did was snark at you; your situation now is down to you.
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Boro
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Re: 16-09-17 Gluteus maximus

Post by Boro »

Spidrift wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:03 am
"Man up" is just completely the wrong term here. Someone could literally tell Gary to act more like a woman, and they'd be telling him to display more willpower and personality - because every woman he knows has more of both than him. It's a terribly poor choice of words, is all.
English is not my native language, but that's the sayng, right? You can even say that to a woman and recieve proper reaction, from what I heard.
Spidrift wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:03 am
And the blaming other people is just part of Gary's lack of personality - a small but obnoxious part, that we especially saw early on, when he explained to Zii why he is like he is. "It was my upbringing, those horrible girls bullied me"... No, Gary, that was over ten years ago now, and you've shown you can get over the religious indoctrination, while the worst the girls did was snark at you; your situation now is down to you.
Ok, I got ya. Did he ever blamed someone else unfairly in this comic? Cause I don't recall that. If not, then it's surely not a part of his personality. More like traumatic events of the past that ridiculously sticked to him for the sake of the plot.
Looking at some shit that people do to him in this comic, he actually should blame some of them more, if you ask me.
Last edited by Boro on Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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AlexDenton
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Re: 16-09-17 Gluteus maximus

Post by AlexDenton »

I do hope Peggy follows up on Didi's answer, because once again it's pretty telling.
"Wait, you mean you're with Zii now because you misinterpreted the comment of someone who barely knows Zii, not because you love her?"
"Hi. I'm NG Resonance. What would you like to talk about?"
"I like your music."
"I think you're lying."
"Hey -- I'm a fan. You're not supposed to argue with me."
"I'm supposed to make you like me. You like it when I argue."

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Spidrift
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Re: 16-09-17 Gluteus maximus

Post by Spidrift »

Boro wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:22 am
You can even say that to a woman and recieve proper reaction, from what I heard.
I wouldn't. It's telling a woman that she becomes a better person if she acts more like a man. I regard that as insulting to most of the women I know (though some would probably be less offended than others).
Boro wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:22 am
Ok, I got ya. Did he ever blamed someone else unfairly in this comic?
Maybe not often, to be honest; it was just something he said that annoyed me the more I thought about it. Given his tendency just to let things happen to him and others to make decisions for him, I just have a nasty feeling that's how he thinks. But I'm probably over-reading there.
AlexDenton wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:34 am
I do hope Peggy follows up on Didi's answer, because once again it's pretty telling.
"Wait, you mean you're with Zii now because you misinterpreted the comment of someone who barely knows Zii, not because you love her?"
She'd be perfectly entitled to say that, and I wouldn't blame her, but it probably wouldn't be worth the effort. Peggy has a fair chance of shaming Zii into trying to make good on her treatment of Sonya, because Zii does actually have some sense of shame; we've seen it in action in the past. She does some crappy stuff from time to time, but she's only human. On the other hand, Peggy likely has zero chance of getting DiDi to understand how horrible she is, because DiDi is a real monster of selfishness.
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AlexDenton
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Re: 16-09-17 Gluteus maximus

Post by AlexDenton »

True, it'd be a waste of time. Although Zii might catch up on that, so maybe not a total waste.
Anyway I'm also interested in how Sonya will react once the shock has passed. Will that kill her crush on Zii, or reignite it?
And also, how will Yuki react? Will it remind her of Zii's past questionable behaviour? Will that change anything? Will she be the one to comfort Sonya? Will they unite to take down Didi in an ultimate badass boss battle? ... yeah maybe not XD

I got to say, this arc may have killed my OTP after almost making it canon, but now I wanna know what happens next.

Quote removed. The DAMNed
"Hi. I'm NG Resonance. What would you like to talk about?"
"I like your music."
"I think you're lying."
"Hey -- I'm a fan. You're not supposed to argue with me."
"I'm supposed to make you like me. You like it when I argue."

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Spidrift
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Re: 16-09-17 Gluteus maximus

Post by Spidrift »

Zii must know that DiDi is pretty damn stupid, in her selfish way, so demonstrating this any more would probably also be pointless. Especially as Zii is currently largely controlled by the DiDi Effect.

Sonya looks bitter enough for the classic/cliché love-turns-to-hate thing to kick in when she's cried herself out. It might not, or she might focus the hate on DiDi, but if I was Zii, I'd be quite scared just now. Sonya likes her drama and is capable of a certain amount of sneakiness.

(Though if I was Zii... Well, I like to think that I'd have the sense to have handled this better.)

Yuki has often been worried about the prospect of DiDi getting her claws into Zii, which has now happened - so although Yuki is no longer so focussed on Zii, I reckon that Sonya has a pretty good chance of getting her onside, if she makes the right pitch. (Their relationship appears to be quite functional these days.) And those two working together is pretty much this comic's Joker/Luthor level of "be very afraid".
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"Brevior vita est quam pro futumentibus negotium agendo."
-- Motto of Hogshead Publishing of fond memory, and wise words to set your Foes List by.
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AlexDenton
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Re: 16-09-17 Gluteus maximus

Post by AlexDenton »

Hehe I can see Sonya looking sinister in a priceless suit and Yuki waving a huge mallet around while being very exited at the prospect of ultra violence XD
"Hi. I'm NG Resonance. What would you like to talk about?"
"I like your music."
"I think you're lying."
"Hey -- I'm a fan. You're not supposed to argue with me."
"I'm supposed to make you like me. You like it when I argue."

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Spidrift
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Re: 16-09-17 Gluteus maximus

Post by Spidrift »

And let's face it, they'd look frickin' gorgeous like that. In fact, if I was given to commissioning art from Giz at conventions...
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"Brevior vita est quam pro futumentibus negotium agendo."
-- Motto of Hogshead Publishing of fond memory, and wise words to set your Foes List by.
Avatar misappropriated from the wonderful XKCD.

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