07-03-17 Till I am out of the way

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True_Avery
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Re: 07-03-17 Till I am out of the way

Post by True_Avery »

Maechris wrote:Considering how Didi carried HER break-ups out in the past? I don't feel bad for her at all.
In fact, it may actually help her grow as a person, Kiley just using it as an excuse or not. And Kiley needed to get out of that relationship, too..
You know, you are allowed to feel bad for someone emotionally even if they dropped out of a poor relationship and they've not been the best of a person in the past. Even if getting broken up with would help her in the long run. Didi's crime is that she is ignorant because Kiley led her on for this long without dropping it much sooner, and dropping people in the past because she got no enjoyment out of the sex and all her prior relationships were largely 1 sided affairs with guys who liked her tits. For being miss therapist, Kiley also just dropped her in a way that lacked any sort of elegance and would be terrible if this wasn't largely for a comedy angle of her escaping the giant titty monster who has been suffocating her.

And I am someone who doesn't even particularly like Didi. Shes a bit of a prick.
Last edited by True_Avery on Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Error of Logic
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Re: 07-03-17 Till I am out of the way

Post by Error of Logic »

Do keep in mind that Kiley needed to get out. Chastel was basically keeping her in bondage and either would not listen to attempts to break things off gracefully or manipulated Kiley into staying.
Given that Kiley does not like Chastel that way, I can easily see her getting desperate to seize any opportunity at all to get away, even if it was a somewhat toxic technique.

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Re: 07-03-17 Till I am out of the way

Post by Lokitsu »

Varanus wrote:
someone wrote:Shipping isn't about whether people would work as a couple. It's about whether it would be hot (in the shipper's opinion, of course) if they were boning. That's all there is to it.
Aww, I wouldn't go that far. Quite a few shippers are just as interested in how "cute" or compatible a pairing is as a couple and how happy they make each other, the hot boning imagery being a bonus of that. That's why this whole ordeal with Kiley and Didi has been so hard to stomach, with Kiley being miserable and Didi thinking she was in love when she wasn't. No amount of sexy imagery can make me enjoy that.

But then again perhaps people like me don't really count as average "shippers." I don't get involved in much in the way of shipping wars and tend to be interested mainly in canon pairings in a given story (to the extent that I often won't even fully embrace a pairing until I can confirm that they actually get together).
Spidrift wasn't talking about Gary/Zii shipping or even Gary/Yuki (although I know he hates that particular pairing); he's referring more to Harry Potter/Snape shipping. Some folks have very strange ideas of what is hot or romantic.

And if anyone here is a Harry/Severus shipper? Please get psychiatric help. You have issues. :p

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True_Avery
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Re: 07-03-17 Till I am out of the way

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Error of Logic wrote:Do keep in mind that Kiley needed to get out. Chastel was basically keeping her in bondage and either would not listen to attempts to break things off gracefully or manipulated Kiley into staying.
Given that Kiley does not like Chastel that way, I can easily see her getting desperate to seize any opportunity at all to get away, even if it was a somewhat toxic technique.
Yeah, I agree. And that is where I remember this is a comedy series and people act abnormally dumb for gags.

I can say that feel bad or not, its nice that this particular couple is done
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Re: 07-03-17 Till I am out of the way

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Lokitsu wrote:Spidrift wasn't talking about Gary/Zii shipping or even Gary/Yuki (although I know he hates that particular pairing); he's referring more to Harry Potter/Snape shipping. Some folks have very strange ideas of what is hot or romantic.
It wasn't just me who was talking about this, y'know. And for the record, I don't consider Gary/Yuki shippers annoying or deranged. There's actual chemistry there, despite everything. I've said before that my current bet is that they'll be two-thirds of the key final triad (along with Zii).

Anyhow, DiDi... Her problem isn't the size of her boobs, it's the size of her sense of entitlement. Not her fault; she's a cuckoo. Everyone treats her as entitled to everything, so of course she thinks she is. Which makes her a fairly terrible person.

I blame the parents.
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Re: 07-03-17 Till I am out of the way

Post by True_Avery »

Oh god, I can't even picture what Didi's parents would be like. Have we seen anyone else's parents to any degree?
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Re: 07-03-17 Till I am out of the way

Post by Lokitsu »

Sorry Spidrift, I thought you were the one who posted about not understanding the bizarre ships that show up in fandom. I didn't mean to put Yuki in the same class of shipping, I've just noticed there's a lot of, sometimes reasonable, dislike for her antics. I actually ship Gary/Yuki, more now because she's one of the few cast members to try and fix her problems.

I've mentioned recently that I think someone messed DiDi up badly when she was young. Not abuse, just terrible parenting. I don't know if we'll ever hear the backstory though. The only parents we've ever encountered are Yuki's (in a flashback) and a phone call from Gary's mom.

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Re: 07-03-17 Till I am out of the way

Post by worldshaking00 »

It might be worth it, seeing the main cast's parents. Maybe one of Didi's parents speaks perfectly fluent French and the other speaks perfectly fluent English, hence her Franglish. :-? Maybe both are Mensa-level people who like to communicate that way to just be... weird? I expect at least one of them was a very competent chef, though. Wouldn't it be a hoot/terror to have Gary's parent's walk in on him in tight leather chaps getting pegged and howling in passion, ala Jeff's birthday surprise from Coupling.

Although I don't always put the blame on poor parenting techniques. People make their own choices, ultimately. Granted, if one was smothered, it makes it more difficult to come out of one's shell stereotypically. Peer pressure is also a nefarious devil, mucking up the waters. Gary obsessed on porn despite his religious upbringing. Zii's teenage experimentation caused her to be like how she is now. Yuki's penis issues are slightly more forgivable once we realize she never was treated for it, and even when discovered wasn't professionally diagnosed. I wonder why her mother did not take her to a psychiatrist in the first place. But then this is comedy and we are supposed to have some suspension of reality.
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Re: 07-03-17 Till I am out of the way

Post by samtheman »

Lokitsu wrote:Sorry Spidrift, I thought you were the one who posted about not understanding the bizarre ships that show up in fandom. I didn't mean to put Yuki in the same class of shipping, I've just noticed there's a lot of, sometimes reasonable, dislike for her antics. I actually ship Gary/Yuki, more now because she's one of the few cast members to try and fix her problems.

I've mentioned recently that I think someone messed DiDi up badly when she was young. Not abuse, just terrible parenting. I don't know if we'll ever hear the backstory though. The only parents we've ever encountered are Yuki's (in a flashback) and a phone call from Gary's mom.
Yuki's dad did show up in person way back in volume 4. And I guess I'm one of the few people that doesn't ship Gary and Yuki but unfortunately they are probably going to be one of the final pairings because it seems the majority of the readers ship them and majority rules when it comes to that sort of thing. I still want to see how the story ends for the other characters specifically Zii, Sonya, and Kiley. I really hope they don't do the Zii/Gary/Yuki OT3 because that allows Yuki and Zii to have their cake and eat it too so to speak and I thought that Zii did not want to be with Yuki again anyway because she's too clingy and crazy. I myself ship Gary with Peggy (or Amber) and I know I'm on a sinking ship but I don't care I'll be the captain that goes down with his ship.

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Re: 07-03-17 Till I am out of the way

Post by Spidrift »

True_Avery wrote:Oh god, I can't even picture what Didi's parents would be like. Have we seen anyone else's parents to any degree?
DiDi mentioned in passing, when first talking to Kiley, that her parents were not very well off, but still did all that could for her. This is actually part of why I call her a cuckoo (in the Sandman sense); it seems that her weird powers are independent of and predate her boobs. Everyone feels compelled to love her, which has made her incapable of normal human relationships.

Aside from the flashbacks, we did meet Yuki's father briefly, shortly after the Yuki/Sonya/Gary sex contest. He's still an arsehole. Aside from that, though, the cast's parents have been kept pretty much entirely offstage. Which actually makes sense; this is a comic about people at the stage of life when they are defining themselves as individuals, independent of their families.

I do have an entirely personal and fan-wanky theory about Gary's upbringing, though. He claimed that he was brought up in a fanatically religious community, full of girls his own age who loved to taunt him. Sure, right. But his vocabulary and cultural references show zero traces of religious indoctrination, he admits to having been a jerkish troll in his late teens, and the phone call from his mother suggested that she was actually quite nice and somewhat aware of his social problems. So my head-cannon says he's deluding himself. That community was no more than mildly conservatively religious, those girls were ordinary teenagers reacting defensively to a creepy trollish teenage boy, and his problems are all his own fault. His parents are probably reasonably okay people.

(Oh, and Zii said that Amber's parents were well-off doctors, while Ruby says that they favoured Amber over herself. And Amber hasn't dared to tell them about her porn career, while Ruby agreed to keep that secret from them. So; probably somewhat conservative, and in my opinion, made a pig's ear of conveying love or toleration to their daughters. But we haven't actually seen them, so that's all tentative deduction.)
samtheman wrote:I really hope they don't do the Zii/Gary/Yuki OT3 because that allows Yuki and Zii to have their cake and eat it too so to speak and I thought that Zii did not want to be with Yuki again anyway because she's too clingy and crazy.
Letting two people (actually three people) have their cake and eat it too sounds like a recipe for a happy ending, and comedies traditionally have happy endings. Hence that guess, whether or not I think it's "deserved". (Not that I give a shit about what these characters "deserve". If we all got what we deserved, the world would end in ice and fire.) And sure, Zii (sensibly) ran from crazy Yuki; since then, though, Yuki has actually undergone (gasp) character development. She's moving toward a state where a happy ending with Zii and/or Gary would be viable. She's not there yet, but she's measurably less crazy.

Though the one final pairing I actually want, in my sentimental way, would be 100% platonic. I want to see Peggy sharing an apartment with Ruby. Peggy deserves a flatmate who she could trust to keep the place tidy and the bills paid, and who'd know what to do when Peggy yells "emergency call-out". Ruby deserves a big sister figure who she could respect and admire, and who'd offer good, sensible advice to a nervous introvert getting her too-long-delayed love life in gear. And funnily enough, they both need somewhere to live, long term.
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Re: 07-03-17 Till I am out of the way

Post by True_Avery »

Coolio, thanks for the reupper - I had forgotten a few of those
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Re: 07-03-17 Till I am out of the way

Post by Maechris »

True_Avery wrote:
Maechris wrote:Considering how Didi carried HER break-ups out in the past? I don't feel bad for her at all.
In fact, it may actually help her grow as a person, Kiley just using it as an excuse or not. And Kiley needed to get out of that relationship, too..
You know, you are allowed to feel bad for someone emotionally even if they dropped out of a poor relationship and they've not been the best of a person in the past. Even if getting broken up with would help her in the long run. Didi's crime is that she is ignorant because Kiley led her on for this long without dropping it much sooner, and dropping people in the past because she got no enjoyment out of the sex and all her prior relationships were largely 1 sided affairs with guys who liked her tits. For being miss therapist, Kiley also just dropped her in a way that lacked any sort of elegance and would be terrible if this wasn't largely for a comedy angle of her escaping the giant titty monster who has been suffocating her.

And I am someone who doesn't even particularly like Didi. Shes a bit of a prick.
Oh, everyone's free to feel as good or bad for a character as we want. Sometimes comedy strikes at a point that we ourselves are sore about and it doesn't really feel funny. Sometimes all of us skip logic or rationalization to enjoy comedy, and sometimes we painfully try to rationalize a comedy when it's pointless. But from my point of view the way Didi treated Kiley in no way deserved anything better than what she was giving to her dates so far. It's clear Kiley's diagnosis is fairly accurate in terms of what Didi needs from a partner, but a romantic relationship is a two way street, and it's clear it never even occured to Didi to put in effort.

Kiley's not even a real therapist yet, she's put herself through a hallucinations-inducing ordeal for the sake of Yuki, and now she's dealing with this insane busty amazon who couldn't differentiate between therapeutic roleplay and reality. *And* one who stalked her and went to find her at work without Kiley ever actually giving Didi the data herself. Frankly, Didi 'liking Kiley for teh orgasms' isn't much better than the guys liking her 'for the boobs', nor is it any less one-sided.
samtheman wrote:I really hope they don't do the Zii/Gary/Yuki OT3 because that allows Yuki and Zii to have their cake and eat it too so to speak and I thought that Zii did not want to be with Yuki again anyway because she's too clingy and crazy. I myself ship Gary with Peggy (or Amber) and I know I'm on a sinking ship but I don't care I'll be the captain that goes down with his ship.
I can't bring myself to put Gary and Yuki back together ever, because of how borderline toxic the first attempt was. Yes, yes, Yuki has been making 'progress', but considering how many other ships her actions have screwed over, she certainly didn't earn the right to 'have her cake and eat it, too'.


Frankly, I'm hoping Peggy finds someone serious and as borderline *sane* as it is possible in this comic (she deserves nothing less so far), at least one of the Yuki/Sonya/Zii trio becomes a crazy old cat lady (implausible, i know), Gary gets with just a single girl (because I do not support 'hopeless protagonist gets several girls' endings), and Didi manages to grow out of the 'sexcrazed' part of her arc and actually doesn't engage with anyone for a longer while (but she's obviously being set up for some lesbian wrestling ship at least temporarily).
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Re: 07-03-17 Till I am out of the way

Post by Spidrift »

If Yuki's plot function is to screw over shippers, then suddenly I like Yuki more than I ever did before. Go Yuki! Full spread, anti-shipping missiles!

And nobody in these strips ever "earns" anything. They're most of them dangerous idiots by real-world standards, and anyway, the ones who do suffer don't get rewarded for it. It's all rather horribly realistic, actually.

(And much as I like Peggy, she's as evil as the rest of them. She enables Sonya's bad behaviour, ignored Matt's crappy treatment of Kiley in pursuit of a stress-relieving three-way shag, and keeps sticking things up Gary's bottom despite his evident discomfort. She only looks like the comic's good, sane person because... Well, because of the rest of them.)
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Re: 07-03-17 Till I am out of the way

Post by Maechris »

Normally, I'd agree, but so far, Yuki has :
1) Stopped Gary and Kiley from getting together despite them obviously meshing well (Kiley felt the need to sacrifice herself for her patient), which lead to YukixGary mess, which is evidently bad.

2) Kicked Matt so hard in his family jewels she stopped him from 'performing' with Didi. This could be good or bad depending on how Matt's shenanigans with Didi would play out if they were allowed to play out to their fullest.

3) Stopped Gary from being able to get, temporarily or more long-term, with Amber (which would be a possibly good outcome for him) or Didi (which at the time would've been a terrible outcome to both)

4) Acted as a dampener for Sonya-Zii shenanigans (Sonya's one of the few characters who could have a working - not sane, but working - relationship with Zii without changing Zii overmuch).

So she's slightly more on the negative side, in my eyes, as far as her power to sink or immobilize ships is concerned.


I'm frankly not sure about Peggy. Yes, it may be just 'she's barely sane in a land of madmen' effect being played up by everyone surrounding her, but unlike other characters she seems genuinely interested in *helping* people. And frankly, Gary never told her to stop Peggying, sorry, pegging him, because... because he's Gary.

So 50% his fault?
More often than not people fail to see the entirety of the issue, and focus on a single facet of it. Ask yourself what makes you right before you set fire on other people for being wrong. // "Chemical reactions between the kawaii and uguu hormones.Within the Desu Gland. This is near to the upper Moe muscle."

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Re: 07-03-17 Till I am out of the way

Post by Spidrift »

Oh, everything is always Gary's fault. Even when it isn't. I'm always happy to blame him for stuff. They boy's hopeless.

By the way, I forgot to mention another of Peggy's offences...

<Horrible Cheap Fake Argumentation Technique>
Imagine that the genders were reversed. Imagine that we had a male character whose first action, after entering the comic, was a minor physical assault on a woman who refused to perform blowjobs on him. Would we ever talk about him as a "good" person?
</Horrible Cheap Fake Argumentation Technique>

But anyhow... Yeah, Peggy's instinct does usually seem to be to help people, and she gets a lot of points for holding down a job that actually makes the world a much better place. But she then goes off at weekends and evenings to act like the rest of the cast. Basically, she uses "acting like a typical Ma3 character" as a form of stress relief. Well, I'm sure she needs it, and most of this stuff is mostly harmless in the long run.* But she still acts like a typical Ma3 character.

*"In the long run, we're all dead." (J.M.Keynes)
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"Brevior vita est quam pro futumentibus negotium agendo."
-- Motto of Hogshead Publishing of fond memory, and wise words to set your Foes List by.
Avatar misappropriated from the wonderful XKCD.

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