04-03-17 Our arrangement is over

[True_Avery]

Hey now, T_A. The first part of fixing a problem is admitting you have a problem. I don't see a problem with you, and I don't have one either.

Oh, I have a problem. That problem is Dynasty Scans only updates once a day.

I also have no where near your level of knowledge of Yuri manga/anime - Haruka & Michiru, Utena & Anthy, and some of the more bizarre happenstances to Cutey Honey are about my total.

I can show you the world....

here's a little something to repay you for enlightening me.

OH MY GOD SHE BLUSHES I FORGOT HNNNG

[LegendaryKroc]

Hey, T_A. Seeing as this has derailed into a discussion about Yuri, do you exclusively read Yuri manga or are there any western girl-couples you like? Because at DC Comics, depending on the writer, there's almost always something between Batgirl and Supergirl that can easily be interpreted as more than just friends, and I know for a fact that Batwoman is a lesbian dating a bisexual female cop/detective on the Gotham PD, among others.

Either way, I find myself urged to say I enjoy Batgirl/Supergirl as a ship, probably for similar reasons to slash fans enjoying Batman/Superman.

Also, since if anyone would know I guess you would, approximately how much of the titular character of Sailor Moon's time on-screen is spent crying like a baby? Just as a percentage compared to her not-crying.

[worldshaking00]

I can answer that too.

She is a self-admitted cry baby. She cries* (*including whining, pouting, sulking, acting anime-level irate, etc.) when she skins her knee. She cries when she is late for school (almost every school day). She cries when Mamo-chan won't buy her something. She cries when her daughter-from-the-future is mean to her. She cries when she has to do homework. She cries when she gets bad grades on her tests. She cries when one of the other girls teases her for her dumb ideas or laziness. She cries when she loses a friend or they leave. She cries (tears of joy) when good things happen. Even one of her early attacks uses the power from crying! All told, I'd guess about (1-3 minutes per episode x 200-22 minute episodes = 200-600 minutes) + (5 minutes x 3-60 minute movies = 15 minutes) 215-615 minutes out of 4580 minutes, or approximately 4.6% to 13.4 %... not including special episodes, SM Crystal, or the musicals.



{I have to get a life}

[True_Avery]

She even cries when she just wants to feel good after! Its a genius system, really.

Hey, T_A. Seeing as this has derailed into a discussion about Yuri, do you exclusively read Yuri manga or are there any western girl-couples you like? Because at DC Comics, depending on the writer, there's almost always something between Batgirl and Supergirl that can easily be interpreted as more than just friends, and I know for a fact that Batwoman is a lesbian dating a bisexual female cop/detective on the Gotham PD, among others.

Either way, I find myself urged to say I enjoy Batgirl/Supergirl as a ship, probably for similar reasons to slash fans enjoying Batman/Superman.

Oh even better, Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy canonically bang on a near a nightly basis nowdays! Which is great, because they were my western comics OTP and seeing them make plant based oral sex puns with each other is fucking amazing.

Other than that, not a whole lot from western peeps. I love hearing about queer characters in western comics, and will occasionally follow them, but this kinda works into my general distaste with western comics: I'm not a huge fan of a story with no ending that goes on forever, pushed by retcons. This isn't a talk down of western queer characters in comics, just more than I tend to prefer manga if only because manga is either a story with an ending in mind, a 4koma as it goes series, or one-shots. So its an odd situation where, given a few years, Quinn and Ivy will break up and that subplot will be forgotten and probably retcon'd out and it'll be like... oh, well, that was fun while it lasted. My love of western comic books took a major blow when Marvel's first Civil War story ended up accounting for nothing and by 2 years out had been mostly retcon'd or dropped entirely.

Now, on that note, Witchblade is fucking great and I occasionally keep my eye out for Top Cow stuff - partially because badass chicks, partially because their ripped muscly kickass girls make me feel funny, and because the stories are typically nice reads. Witchblade has some lesbians in it, and its great - wont spoil who incase anyone wants to read it, but its pretty cool when it happens.

But as far as western in general, not many. This can largely be attributed to culture - I will rail at you for hours on how many tropes in Yuri I fucking hate, how many things get played out, how so many get bad ends or no romantic payoff, etc. Japan has a lot to learn about queer representation. With that in mind, the west is worse. The west is WAAAAAY worse. There are websites dedicated to how many lesbians get killed every year on tv and western media and more than several TV tropes pages exist solely because the west treats queer characters as subhuman monsters that need to be viciously raped and murdered, not to mention the stereotyping is way worse.

An easy explanation is who is writing them - yuri manga are not always, but mostly written by women in Japan, and often closet or open queer women at that. So, especially in Josei, there are realistic, thoughtful, dramatic stories that simple don't exist anywhere in the west. I can name several Yuri manga that make "Blue is the Warmest Color" look like the clownshoes production that it is - look at the queer/lesbian section of fucking netflix, and they're all either bad end, horror stories, cheating stories, or stories about sinful flings between married women that ends with them tearfully saying goodbye so they can do the honorable thing and go home and suck their husbands dicks. Western mainstream media is a joke in this regard, because Shoujo and Yuri was putting lesbians and gay couples on TV back in the fucking 70's and 80's. Like, I know me and worldshaking00 sploosh about Haruka x Michiru all the time, but that couple stands as one of, if not the first confirmed lesbian -couple- in not only anime, but a milestone in media in general and this was in a manga back in the early 90's. Sailor moon the character herself is a confirmed bisexual, and she was always a bit of an insert character for the manga author who is bisexual herself.

Yuri isn't great, but there enough of it to sift through to find the gems. Western media sits around and gets in a love/hate circle with itself when they have the bravery to like, I dunno, make Tracer gay or something or Mass Effect puts some lesbian blue aliens in it to sex. Big deal - Haruka was kissing Usagi in the 90's, and yuri as an underground genre has existed for a decently long time. Even today, people make a big deal out of queer characters in video games where as I am subscribed to several yuri groups on Steam that show me the constant stream of japanese yuri visual novels that I shove inside my sad, sad mind.

I do, however, ship Overwatch characters fucking hard, and I recently played Ladykiller in a Bind which was so good to me that I made several life changes because of it. So I can really like some western stuff, but pulling at scraps in western media isn't as interesting when there are now slabs of delicious meat sitting in the yuri genre lately. Also, play Ladykiller in a Bind. Its about bondage and S&M. Its fucking great.

[Maechris]

The west is WAAAAAY worse. There are websites dedicated to how many lesbians get killed every year on tv and western media and more than several TV tropes pages exist solely because the west treats queer characters as subhuman monsters that need to be viciously raped and murdered, not to mention the stereotyping is way worse.

An easy explanation is who is writing them - yuri manga are not always, but mostly written by women in Japan, and often closet or open queer women at that. So, especially in Josei, there are realistic, thoughtful, dramatic stories that simple don't exist anywhere in the west. I can name several Yuri manga that make "Blue is the Warmest Color" look like the clownshoes production that it is - look at the queer/lesbian section of fucking netflix, and they're all either bad end, horror stories, cheating stories, or stories about sinful flings between married women that ends with them tearfully saying goodbye so they can do the honorable thing and go home and suck their husbands dicks. Western mainstream media is a joke in this regard, because Shoujo and Yuri was putting lesbians and gay couples on TV back in the fucking 70's and 80's. Like, I know me and worldshaking00 sploosh about Haruka x Michiru all the time, but that couple stands as one of, if not the first confirmed lesbian -couple- in not only anime, but a milestone in media in general and this was in a manga back in the early 90's. Sailor moon the character herself is a confirmed bisexual, and she was always a bit of an insert character for the manga author who is bisexual herself.

It does feel like cultural differences and who approaches a pairing are the problem. There's a notable lack of balance in both western and eastern approaches to romances all over the board but depending on what you like you may find the particular lack of balance less annoying. Lesbians fascinate and tittilate western audiences, so they're essentially put in as fanservice more often than not, but people writing them have no idea what their relationships should actually be like so they often end up being a sexual bonus just so LGBT folks will shut up and the stereotypical straighbros get their eye candy. This was actually *magnified* by the sexual revolution because now for some reason it is perfectly all right for women in relationships (particularly in fiction) to experiment outside of said relationships as long as it is with another woman; hence the amount of stories with them housewaifu sideswings, I believe.

Basically 'as long as there wasn't another dick involved, no harm done' is the approach to women cheating on their significant others and spouses, because 'girl on girl is hot' or someshit like that. So writers abuse the heck out of that.

------

This actually translates to straight romances as well. In the vast majority of written straight romances (in comics, I mean) the guy is the macho as far as comic series go, and the woman is passive to an extent. Because social (and even more so, romantic) anxiety was a big problem amongst youth of both genders in Japan a lot of mangas actually featured the reverse of the trope with rather passive guys having aggressive girls (or harems of relatively open and friendly girls) after them, to the point it might be annoying to a western reader. Similarly, they develop female romances in actual yuri in a way that actually makes sense for Japanese girls of a particular time period, because most yuri writers are either women themselves or have been into writing for a fairly long time. On the other hand some romances still feel like they're better handled simply because the girl side of things isn't always a total doormat or object to conquer.

(...) I dunno, make Tracer gay or something or Mass Effect puts some lesbian blue aliens in it to sex.

I do, however, ship Overwatch characters fucking hard, and I recently played Ladykiller in a Bind which was so good to me that I made several life changes because of it. So I can really like some western stuff, but pulling at scraps in western media isn't as interesting when there are now slabs of delicious meat sitting in the yuri genre lately. Also, play Ladykiller in a Bind. Its about bondage and S&M. Its fucking great.

Psh.
Asari are pansexual.
The ones that are blue-exclusive and Asari-exclusive a.k.a functionally gay are actually considered a bad thing because of genetic issues and all dat Ardrat Yakshi stuff. Check your facts.

Also Tracer had to be gay, otherwise people would never shut up about her butt.

[True_Avery]

Basically 'as long as there wasn't another dick involved, no harm done' is the approach to women cheating on their significant others and spouses, because 'girl on girl is hot' or someshit like that. So writers abuse the heck out of that.

Oddly this isn't a big theme in yuri in Japan, but it saddens me how on point that is with western media. From both sides of the isle, its shitty as a story - I can give some credit, since I have known lgbt people stuck in a straight relationship they cheated in to stay sane, but its all just a sad affair and its played up for laughs a lot on tv shows. Disappointing.

This actually translates to straight romances as well. In the vast majority of written straight romances (in comics, I mean) the guy is the macho as far as comic series go, and the woman is passive to an extent. Because social (and even more so, romantic) anxiety was a big problem amongst youth of both genders in Japan a lot of mangas actually featured the reverse of the trope with rather passive guys having aggressive girls (or harems of relatively open and friendly girls) after them, to the point it might be annoying to a western reader. Similarly, they develop female romances in actual yuri in a way that actually makes sense for Japanese girls of a particular time period, because most yuri writers are either women themselves or have been into writing for a fairly long time. On the other hand some romances still feel like they're better handled simply because the girl side of things isn't always a total doormat or object to conquer.

This is all really true - I've just been tossing love at Yuri since I do like it, but I agree that I am sometimes baffled by what passes for romance in stories with straight couples. If there is one nice thing to be said about queer relationships in a lot of fiction, the power dynamics feel a bit more at even footing with one another. Not to say there isn't some bad lesbian/queer/yuri fiction with bad romance (I'm looking at you... entire Netflix catalogue), but not to sound like a quacking stereotype I do like how its a bit more even.

Now in real life, sadly this isn't the case but this is not the thread for lgbt abuse statistics.

Asari are pansexual.
The ones that are blue-exclusive and Asari-exclusive a.k.a functionally gay are actually considered a bad thing because of genetic issues and all dat Ardrat Yakshi stuff. Check your facts.

Sorry, you're right I know - I was trying to be a little Fox News facetious about it, but yeah. Didn't mean to erase their sexuality - bad joke is bad. Might be over reacting, but sorry for being tactless.

Also Tracer had to be gay, otherwise people would never shut up about her butt.

Her beautiful ass belongs to my people now

[Lokitsu]

Sadly, at one point in NH (my home state), it was decided in the courts that a married woman having a lesbian affair didn't count as adultery.
The only lesbian character in western comics that I ever felt was written well was Renee Montoya in her too brief stint as The Question. And then DC retconned her out of existance because they suck. I never read Top Cow, it always looked too fan servicey with the half naked women on every cover. I may have to give it a look.
I've read that even straight women are fond of josei yuri in Japan precisely because the relationships are more often between equals. From looking at other manga where the female lead is less a partner and more a prize to be awarded for succeeding, I'm not really surprised. Its apparently still common practice there for a woman to have to give up her career once she marries.

[Maechris]

Asari are pansexual.
The ones that are blue-exclusive and Asari-exclusive a.k.a functionally gay are actually considered a bad thing because of genetic issues and all dat Ardrat Yakshi stuff. Check your facts.

Sorry, you're right I know - I was trying to be a little Fox News facetious about it, but yeah. Didn't mean to erase their sexuality - bad joke is bad. Might be over reacting, but sorry for being tactless.

Also Tracer had to be gay, otherwise people would never shut up about her butt.

Her beautiful ass belongs to my people now

Relax, I was mostly joking myself.

Curiously, while I am not an Overwatch player it's become known to me that for some reason Tracer's popular to be paired with Widowmaker.

Which is excellent as far as the other topics' 'discussing silly ships' is concerned because they're virtually fated to be enemies and Widowmaker appears to be an ex-straight, experiment-frigid-driven, aromantic/asexual girl with a damn sexy skin tone.

This is all really true - I've just been tossing love at Yuri since I do like it, but I agree that I am sometimes baffled by what passes for romance in stories with straight couples. If there is one nice thing to be said about queer relationships in a lot of fiction, the power dynamics feel a bit more at even footing with one another. Not to say there isn't some bad lesbian/queer/yuri fiction with bad romance (I'm looking at you... entire Netflix catalogue), but not to sound like a quacking stereotype I do like how its a bit more even.

Now in real life, sadly this isn't the case but this is not the thread for lgbt abuse statistics.

I've read that even straight women are fond of josei yuri in Japan precisely because the relationships are more often between equals. From looking at other manga where the female lead is less a partner and more a prize to be awarded for succeeding, I'm not really surprised. Its apparently still common practice there for a woman to have to give up her career once she marries.

Depending on manga the romantic portrayal of women can vary a lot, but in my personal opinion and experience on average they're surprisingly a lot less doormat-y/passive/one-dimensional nowadays than I'd consider most female characters in Western comics. That may simply be because of my taste however.

Then again they recently came up with stuff like Prison School or Keijo that makes my eyebrows rise.

[True_Avery]

I never read Top Cow, it always looked too fan servicey with the half naked women on every cover. I may have to give it a look.

Ok so, I'm not going to be one to pick Top Cow up and call it a bastion of feminism. I will say, despite the art, both me and my sister are big fans of Witchblade because we like the themes, story, art, etc. I once asked my straight sister what she thought of Witchblade's art, and her response was "Yeah its all sexy but it feels like a girly story. I dunno, its got sexy stuff but I think it comes across as cool and I don't think guys would get a lot out of it." For the dash of salt, me and her did grow up idolizing Lara Croft despite her over-sexualization so it could be said that neither of us let overt sexual pandering get in the way a story or character we like. I mean, I read Pixie Trix stuff - I obviously am not above liking borderline smut, haha.

I've read that even straight women are fond of josei yuri in Japan precisely because the relationships are more often between equals. From looking at other manga where the female lead is less a partner and more a prize to be awarded for succeeding

This is true, though it does come with some odd problems. The "hand-holding" as romance aspect that a lot of Yuri finds it way in can be attributed to watershed or censorship, buuuut in some cases has done to not upset the straight readership who may like the romance, but anything sexual crosses their line. In modern Yuri there are actually a lot of references to these women, haha - in one case there is a manga of 3 girls who like yuri manga and two of them fall in love and start dating and the third finds the idea of sex between women to be repulsive and disgusting and proceeds to bully and harass the other two; despite the fact she was a huge yuri manga fan. That story was partially based on reality, so it was most likely someone the mangaka knew in real life. I've also read a few modern visual novels that bring up the trope as well.

So it is pretty interesting that yuri has a noticeable straight female fanbase to me, but I have to imagine that can be a little awkward sometimes haha.

Relax, I was mostly joking myself.

I figured - just wanted to make sure. I've been called out on that before.

Curiously, while I am not an Overwatch player it's become known to me that for some reason Tracer's popular to be paired with Widowmaker.
Which is excellent as far as the other topics' 'discussing silly ships' is concerned because they're virtually fated to be enemies and Widowmaker appears to be an ex-straight, experiment-frigid-driven, aromantic/asexual girl with a damn sexy skin tone.

I do not play Overwatch either, but boy do I like the shipping scene for it haha. I was big on Tracer x Widowmaker for a long while, but then Tracer's canon girlfriend was showed off and I fell off that ship train - I'm actually not too big a fan of shipping characters that are already with someone else unless I don't like or feel nothing for the canon pair. I'll still ship a broken ship if I really like it (Cammi x Sandra is my terrible bad ship of the week), but I agree with you in the other thread where I tend to "ship" canon pairings, or at least pairings that at least appear to have chemistry.

Then again they recently came up with stuff like Prison School or Keijo that makes my eyebrows rise.

Oh god, those series of which we do not speak the name of

[The Shadow]

... and The Shadow, you forgot The Shadow!

Sorry I'm late. You called?

[Aleric]

What?! A discussion about yuri/lesbians in comics and Sunstone wasn't mentioned?

Well, here you go:

http://shiniez.deviantart.com/art/sunst ... -660761868

Situation rectified.

[Don Alexander]

If you continue pressing your hand there, Kiley, yes, you will keep DiDi from growing.

Also, I had to read allllll this Yuri discussion. Think of the poor mod!

The Shadow "knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men". DiDi is no man!

Yes, DiDi can kill the Witch-King of Angmar - with Snu Snu!!!

Your mouth may be saying "No", Kiley, but your left hand has other ideas.

Is it bottom lefty?

so...........looks like Didi has issues with slang and what is to her uncommon figurative speech and even popular sayings and in this particular case

I just realized DiDi is a Rule 63 Drax the Destroyer!!! o_O

Yeah, this storyline is less yuri and more like an extended showing of how far the definition of "therapy" can be stretched before the line between turns into a singularity.

It's evidently Mangled Metaphor Sunday. I now have to imagine something being stretched until the line between two things becomes a singularity.

Don can doubtless handle this better than I can, but I can imagine a line being stretched until it goes "sprung!" And contracts into a gravitational point source. Or maybe anything that approaches the line simply becomes mathematically indeterminable. Or perhaps the line is a graph, and is actually stretched laterally at one point until its value approaches infinity...

Sheeeesh. Well, if we ignore T_A's creative claptrap under your post and actually go with something that might be realistic... As the interaction of quarks is governed by asymptotic freedom, perhaps if you tried to pull two quarks apart, and just pumped more and more energy into the system the further you ripped them apart, perhaps you'd reach the point where the energy density becomes so high that an event horizon forms... ...I have no idea.