Still alive...

Are you looking for tips on how to get started as a comic/manga artist? Maybe you're looking for feedback on works you've already created. Then this is the forum for you! (Note: Ported from Gomanga.com)

Moderator: Harukochan

Locked
Peregrin
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:21 am
Location: in despair.

Post by Peregrin »

The problem with the profile faces to me seems to be that the neck is too big relative to the face, specifically the chin. For example, the guy in the top left has a rather squished-looking face and a huge neck. I'd try starting the slope of the chin below the ear lobe and having it dip down more before coming to a point. I'm not much of an artist myself, but I think that should help. Overall, I think the chins should be a bit deeper.

User avatar
MidnightVampricKisses
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:58 am

Post by MidnightVampricKisses »

StrateryB wrote:Image

A collaboration I did with Gardenia.
Coloring fails so badly on my part, I've already kind of killed myself for the girl's(in front) hair.

Our original characters for a story collaboration with my friend Meliona and Gardenia. It was originally meant to be a group picture but it's missing one character, failure again on my part.

Most of the "villains" are on one side but overall, there's really no set up.
The person who actually drew it may need some work on it but other than that, good job on coloring it Stratery!

User avatar
StrateryB
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 9:13 pm
Location: Stealing someone's glasses
Contact:

Post by StrateryB »

Peregrin wrote:The problem with the profile faces to me seems to be that the neck is too big relative to the face, specifically the chin. For example, the guy in the top left has a rather squished-looking face and a huge neck. I'd try starting the slope of the chin below the ear lobe and having it dip down more before coming to a point. I'm not much of an artist myself, but I think that should help. Overall, I think the chins should be a bit deeper.
Specifics, thanks.
I guess the problem is mostly with my males? But it makes sense, I only just now started trying to draw male faces with a different shape. Shows I still need work. Thanks.
MidnightVampricKisses wrote:The person who actually drew it may need some work on it but other than that, good job on coloring it Stratery!
I did draw it. Well most of the characters besides the male in green and the male with a beard, they were drawn by Gardenia.
Thanks.

Gardenia
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:45 am

Post by Gardenia »

guillx wrote:how can I get more specific than that?
All the characters who have their heads in a 3/4 position have weird shaped faces/heads and you need to work on those, take the main guy in the picture for example, or the one on the upper left with glasses.
Well, Stratery didn't ask for feedback and critique in particular when posting this illustration. Though if you would critique it should be expected from an artist yourself to provide more than just "weird" or "need to work on". A more constructed critique would be to point out minor flaws and suggest what could be done in hopes of bettering it. I think that is what Stratery meant by more "specifics". Excuse me but just to say, you see. To make that more clear.
Otherwise, thank you for commenting on our collaboration~!

Reven
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:21 pm
Location: In the cut
Contact:

Post by Reven »

Its still a nice picture. Maybe next time ( I'm not sure if you do it already). Start off by drawing a bald head for your characters and then add the hair afterwards. That always seems to help me when I start a character off.

User avatar
guillx
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:57 am

Post by guillx »

Peregrin wrote:The problem with the profile faces to me seems to be that the neck is too big relative to the face, specifically the chin. For example, the guy in the top left has a rather squished-looking face and a huge neck. I'd try starting the slope of the chin below the ear lobe and having it dip down more before coming to a point. I'm not much of an artist myself, but I think that should help. Overall, I think the chins should be a bit deeper.
I Don't think its huge , I just think it's too far on the right if you see what a I mean...

User avatar
StrateryB
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 9:13 pm
Location: Stealing someone's glasses
Contact:

Post by StrateryB »

Reven wrote:Its still a nice picture. Maybe next time ( I'm not sure if you do it already). Start off by drawing a bald head for your characters and then add the hair afterwards. That always seems to help me when I start a character off.
Actually, that makes it worse for me (I'm really bad with this type of thing, I have a tendency to go along exactly with the shape, which makes it look too small), I guess in the end I'm really just a free style artist.

Thanks.

Peregrin
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:21 am
Location: in despair.

Post by Peregrin »

guillx wrote:
Peregrin wrote:The problem with the profile faces to me seems to be that the neck is too big relative to the face, specifically the chin. For example, the guy in the top left has a rather squished-looking face and a huge neck. I'd try starting the slope of the chin below the ear lobe and having it dip down more before coming to a point. I'm not much of an artist myself, but I think that should help. Overall, I think the chins should be a bit deeper.
I Don't think its huge , I just think it's too far on the right if you see what a I mean...
I thought about that, but I don't think that's what's causing the issue. If you look at where the jawline starts from the neck, it's pretty far in. However, the jawline starts a bit below the ear, and in this picture the odd-looking profiles have the jaw starting at the middle of the ear. The ones that don't do this look fine to me (the goatee guy and the guy with the green hat), but the ones that don't look odd (the guy in the top left, the guy with the red coat). Note the difference in how the chin is drawn relative to the ear and adjust accordingly.

Note, though, that I used my own head as a model for this suggestion. I consider my head to be fairly normal, but differences may apply.

User avatar
StrateryB
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 9:13 pm
Location: Stealing someone's glasses
Contact:

Post by StrateryB »

Peregrin wrote:
guillx wrote:
Peregrin wrote:The problem with the profile faces to me seems to be that the neck is too big relative to the face, specifically the chin. For example, the guy in the top left has a rather squished-looking face and a huge neck. I'd try starting the slope of the chin below the ear lobe and having it dip down more before coming to a point. I'm not much of an artist myself, but I think that should help. Overall, I think the chins should be a bit deeper.
I Don't think its huge , I just think it's too far on the right if you see what a I mean...
I thought about that, but I don't think that's what's causing the issue. If you look at where the jawline starts from the neck, it's pretty far in. However, the jawline starts a bit below the ear, and in this picture the odd-looking profiles have the jaw starting at the middle of the ear. The ones that don't do this look fine to me (the goatee guy and the guy with the green hat), but the ones that don't look odd (the guy in the top left, the guy with the red coat). Note the difference in how the chin is drawn relative to the ear and adjust accordingly.

Note, though, that I used my own head as a model for this suggestion. I consider my head to be fairly normal, but differences may apply.
That's because Gardenia drew those two characters.

I like your explanation, it's very detailed and specific, helps out a LOT.
And I'm pretty sure your head is alright, information seems about right anyway. Question though; does this only apply to my males? Or also to my females?

Second, I'm thinking of a project, Alice in Wonderland themed.
Would you find it more interesting if Alice were female, and the entire cast female (shoujo-ai,yuri), or would you find it more interesting if Alice were male and most of the cast were female (not really harem, but just the majority is female)?

Peregrin
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:21 am
Location: in despair.

Post by Peregrin »

StrateryB wrote:
Peregrin wrote:
guillx wrote: I Don't think its huge , I just think it's too far on the right if you see what a I mean...
I thought about that, but I don't think that's what's causing the issue. If you look at where the jawline starts from the neck, it's pretty far in. However, the jawline starts a bit below the ear, and in this picture the odd-looking profiles have the jaw starting at the middle of the ear. The ones that don't do this look fine to me (the goatee guy and the guy with the green hat), but the ones that don't look odd (the guy in the top left, the guy with the red coat). Note the difference in how the chin is drawn relative to the ear and adjust accordingly.

Note, though, that I used my own head as a model for this suggestion. I consider my head to be fairly normal, but differences may apply.
That's because Gardenia drew those two characters.

I like your explanation, it's very detailed and specific, helps out a LOT.
And I'm pretty sure your head is alright, information seems about right anyway. Question though; does this only apply to my males? Or also to my females?

Second, I'm thinking of a project, Alice in Wonderland themed.
Would you find it more interesting if Alice were female, and the entire cast female (shoujo-ai,yuri), or would you find it more interesting if Alice were male and most of the cast were female (not really harem, but just the majority is female)?
I think the females may look better because their hair covers the neck-ear convergence point. I can't really tell because of that, but I thought they looked OK.

As for the Alice in Wonderland, I'd recommend against the all-female theme, as CLAMP has famously done that already. I'd actually suggest keeping a good proportion of males to females in the story. Maybe a gender-swap of each character (i.e. king of hearts, male protagonist, female mad hatter, etc.)?

User avatar
StrateryB
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 9:13 pm
Location: Stealing someone's glasses
Contact:

Post by StrateryB »

Peregrin wrote:I think the females may look better because their hair covers the neck-ear convergence point. I can't really tell because of that, but I thought they looked OK.

As for the Alice in Wonderland, I'd recommend against the all-female theme, as CLAMP has famously done that already. I'd actually suggest keeping a good proportion of males to females in the story. Maybe a gender-swap of each character (i.e. king of hearts, male protagonist, female mad hatter, etc.)?
True, but I never drew the female faces/jawlines the same as the males anyway, so it probably is better.

Oops, forgot about CLAMP, too bad (kind of wanted the yuri).
Genderswap sounds interesting, might try that, since I really do like the idea of a male Alice.

Might post a prompt/short idea of it, who knows. Thanks.

User avatar
Dai
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:29 pm

Post by Dai »

StrateryB wrote: Also, I did an alternative of the group picture.

Image

Villains are wearing dark gray/black and heroes are wearing white/gray.
The characters' expressions are too subtle. Particularly the woman on the lower left corner, the man on the upper right corner, the guy with the purple fireball, and the lady licking her own sword.

User avatar
StrateryB
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 9:13 pm
Location: Stealing someone's glasses
Contact:

Post by StrateryB »

Dai wrote:The characters' expressions are too subtle. Particularly the woman on the lower left corner, the man on the upper right corner, the guy with the purple fireball, and the lady licking her own sword.
I get what you mean, but their expressions don't really mean anything. I just drew whatever came up from the top of my head (lazy artist is lazy).

I've been trying to expand my range of expressions lately, so hopefully I can put those up soon...

Gardenia
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:45 am

Post by Gardenia »

Dai wrote:The characters' expressions are too subtle. Particularly the woman on the lower left corner, the man on the upper right corner, the guy with the purple fireball, and the lady licking her own sword.
Yes, I see what you mean. Now that I look back on the man with long, black hair (as you referred to as man at the top right corner, correct?), he does have a stiff expression. Perhaps if I broaden his smile and make it seem more tangible upon his facial structure, it would be less stiff.

As for the other characters you have mentioned, I assume StrateryB might have intended a smirk for the man with the purple aura and considering that possibility, it wouldn't really be irrelevant regarding the subtly of the expression. But perhaps the expression itself among that angle of the body might illustrates an unbalance in the vibes it gives off in comparison to the purple aura, huh?

The lady licking the sword was intended to be a yandere so Stra_B tried to illustrate that within this pic, although subtly isn't a main factor in achieving that depiction. What tips would be helpful in bettering that intention?

Now that I think about it, the shading of the face always seems to contribute to the subtly or animation in a character's facial expression. Would you think it helpful if the shading would amplify the facial expression and relieve the stiffness? Or perhaps their smile is the problem to the facial subtly.

Thank you for critique, though. I would appreciate if you can give us some tips as well. : )

Locked